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Discussion Starter #1
This was already posted in the SVS owner's thread (by user Matt34), but for those who don't regularly visit that thread....
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/sb12-nsd-subwoofer


Awesome performance for such a small sub. I think this puts to rest the argument of the Emotiva X-Ref 12 vs SB12-NSD.


The SVS is clearly the better performer - better extension at both ends, lower distortion, higher max SPL (except at 50Hz & 63Hz where the X-Ref 12 has a peak in response)... and Josh Ricci commented on the excellent sound quality as well...


Now if AH would just measure the NHT B-12d as well... so we know who is king of the small sealed subs right now...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii  /t/1418419/audioholics-reviewed-the-svs-sb12-nsd#post_22184347


I think this puts to rest the argument of the Emotiva X-Ref 12 vs SB12-NSD.

The SVS is clearly the better performer - better extension at both ends, lower distortion, higher max SPL (except at 50Hz & 63Hz where the X-Ref 12 has a peak in response)... and Josh Ricci commented on the excellent sound quality as well...

Glad that is finally settled. LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii  /t/1418419/audioholics-reviewed-the-svs-sb12-nsd#post_22184347


Now if AH would just measure the NHT B-12d as well... so we know who is king of the small sealed subs right now...

I'm curious, too. If we can trust NHT's specs, it looks like it could be #2 on this list.
 

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That is superb looking test data for such a small and relatievely inexpensive sub. Very impressive. It appears to beat out the old SB12-Plus in every possible way performance-wise.
 

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This has me thinking how great the SVS SB-16 Ultra would test. Too bad about the price of neodymium.
 

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This makes me even more proud of my stacked SB12nsds. In defense of Emotiva, my ultra 10 sub is also a solid performer. To bad Emotiva didn't keep the Ultra Line in production
 

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BTW, I find it interesting that the tiny SB12nsd can muster up a better room size rating than the much larger Cadence CSX-15
 

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Discussion Starter #7

Quote:
Originally Posted by kesando  /t/1418419/audioholics-reviewed-the-svs-sb12-nsd#post_22185115


This makes me even more proud of my stacked SB12nsds. In defense of Emotiva, my ultra 10 sub is also a solid performer. To bad Emotiva didn't keep the Ultra Line in production

I'm not knocking Emotiva... I have an Ultra 12 in my main room - great sub for the money (and I'd argue, a much better value than the X-Ref).


I only commented on the X-Ref 12 because there was some back and forth for awhile about it vs the SB12-NSD... particularly from one member here who wouldn't recognize acknowledge any measurements of the SB12-NSD because they weren't conducted by Ricci/Audioholics.


Now, both subs have been measured by the same person and held to the same standards... and I think it's pretty clear which offers better objective performance.


Perhaps Emotiva should run more aggressive sales on the X-Ref 12.
 

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There is no doubt that the SB12 is a better performer, but don't get carried away, it isn't a head and shoulders better than the Emotiva. It's significant output advantage is below 30 hz, so in most real world use it probably wouldn't sound any different than the Emotiva, especially seeing how they perform so closely above 30 hz (up till 70 hz). For the same price its a no-brainer, get the SVS sub, but if the X-Ref 12 was $100 or so cheaper, it would make the extra output below 30 hz a questionable value for a music based subwoofer.
 

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The SVS also has a significantly better upper bass response as well. I can't see why anyone would choose the Emo over the SVS unless the Emo was hundreds lower in price.
 

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Good review. I just love seeing SVS stuff always do good in 3rd party measurements/reviews. No hype needed...
 

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Discussion Starter #12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1  /t/1418419/audioholics-reviewed-the-svs-sb12-nsd#post_22185947


This shows what it takes to get flat response down low with a small sealed sub. It's maxed out at 95db below 30hz.

No question, to get that extension, SPL is sacrificed. No one should expect miracles from any small sealed sub.


But even with only 95dB output below 30Hz, it's still a good bit more than the X-Ref 12 which costs roughly the same... and generally speaking, distortion is lower.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii  /t/1418419/audioholics-reviewed-the-svs-sb12-nsd#post_22186081


No question, to get that extension, SPL is sacrificed. No one should expect miracles from any small sealed sub.

But even with only 95dB output below 30Hz, it's still a good bit more than the X-Ref 12 which costs roughly the same... and generally speaking, distortion is lower.

I wasnt knocking the SB12, it is one of the few small sealed subs that even attempts to go below 30hz. Just wanted to make sure people understood the limits of the design, and that just because it has a nice looking frequency response, it is still not suited for a large room.
 

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Discussion Starter #14

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ  /t/1418419/audioholics-reviewed-the-svs-sb12-nsd#post_22185740


There is no doubt that the SB12 is a better performer, but don't get carried away, it isn't a head and shoulders better than the Emotiva. It's significant output advantage is below 30 hz, so in most real world use it probably wouldn't sound any different than the Emotiva, especially seeing how they perform so closely above 30 hz (up till 70 hz). For the same price its a no-brainer, get the SVS sub, but if the X-Ref 12 was $100 or so cheaper, it would make the extra output below 30 hz a questionable value for a music based subwoofer.

Right now the X-Ref 12 is $595, which makes it more appealing. For a music only sub, maybe it's hard to justify the extra $55 for the SB12-NSD for the bland charcoal finish... and harder to swallow the extra $85 for the piano black... if on a tight budget.


But if the sub will be doing HT duty as well, it seems well worth the marginally higher cost to go with the SVS. I'm not saying it's head and shoulders better.... but when the the X-Ref is $699 (or even $649), I just see no reason to pick it over the SVS. Others may not agree.


Consider also that it's not just the below 30Hz extension... but above 100Hz as well that the SVS outperforms the X-Ref. This is something that matters to folks with small speakers that need higher xover points.


Again, I'm not knocking Emotiva or saying the X-Ref 12 is a bad sub... If it were competing in a slightly lower price range, it'd likely be recommended more often.
 

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Discussion Starter #15

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1  /t/1418419/audioholics-reviewed-the-svs-sb12-nsd#post_22186097


I wasnt knocking the SB12, it is one of the few small sealed subs that even attempts to go below 30hz. Just wanted to make sure people understood the limits of the design, and that just because it has a nice looking frequency response, it is still not suited for a large room.

Agreed...
 

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Every small sealed sub is going to have serious compromises in terms of performance, but what stands out to me is how well SVS chose the right balance of compromises to maximize what you can get in a 14inch cube.


Edit:


IMO it sets a high bar on what a small sealed sub should perform like:

- ruler flat response

- does not make bad noises when driven hard, distortion kept in check.

- enough usable extension for HT use (below 30Hz)

- wide bandwidth for blending with any speaker.

- actually exceeds stated frequency response specs (+/-3dB down to 21Hz)

- still priced affordably
 

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My general comment.


The SB12 was measured within 6db from 21-300Hz, actually better than what SVS claimed! Better at both the low and high end. Try a crossover of even 100Hz on other 12" sealed sub in the market with small speakers :)


It would be a waste of money to get just a music only sub that has limited low and high end performance for some $600 when the SB12 has a 21-300Hz range within 6db for a few bucks more. I see no reason why anyone would not consider the SB12 over any other 12" sealed sub for a small-medium room.


One could cut and paste (cherry pick) any of the comments in the review but there is no doubt which one wins. The 100m Olympic run off for the 3rd spot could not be decided based on a fair run, but this one has been decided for good :)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi  /t/1418419/audioholics-reviewed-the-svs-sb12-nsd#post_22189736


My general comment.

I see no reason why anyone would not consider the SB12 over any other 12" sealed sub for a small-medium room.

I'll take a JL Audio f112 or Rythmik f12se over a SB12 any day.
 

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Well if you want to spend the extra money and want to deal with the weight feel free. To me the light weight (35lb) and price makes SB12 a no brainer.


F112 is like $3100, dont know the weight

F12SE is $999, 80lb shipping weight.


To me both are out of the list due to cost and weight Lets stick with the subs in the $600 range as that is a fair comparison to the SB12. Lets not compare a BMW and a Honda Civic :)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ  /t/1418419/audioholics-reviewed-the-svs-sb12-nsd#post_22190678


I'll take a JL Audio f112 or Rythmik f12se over a SB12 any day.

I have now doubt those 2 are awesome performers, but expensive and bigger. I would love to see the F12SE measured and see if it really is only down 2 dB at 14 Hz.
 
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