[Dan2112]

I am a newbie here so please have patience. I have been voraciously reading this forum. The people here are a wealth of knowledge and I hope they can help me out....


I recently had a chance to see a S1 and S2 in the same room at my local dealer. He had the S1 last week and I returned this evening after learning he had replaced it with a S2.


I thought the S1 was smooth and very nice. When I saw the S2 it appeared a little brighter with better contrast if memory serves me right. Although the color was a little washed out to me so this could be a calibration issue (too bright). When I asked the salesman he told me it was set the same as the S1. I had no way of knowing if he was truthful. As I don't own any movies yet I had to go with what they had in the store - Dinosaur. (I saw this in my last audition too, so it was a good comparison).


In some scenes I noticed some artifacts and I don't know if they are in the source, the scalar, a cable problem (bandwidth) or all of the above. So please help me out...


In the beginning of the movie in close ups of the egg I noticed, for lack of a better term, pixelization. Kind of like watching a video on a low bandwidth internet connection - larger pixels and then smaller "normal" ones. I also noticed it again when static backgrounds where panned small distances on the screen. When I got closer to the screen I noticed it around moving objects against the background.


When I got close up I noticed the edge of the pixels where not touching. Was the PJ focused correctly?


And I also noticed the "dimple" in the pixel.


I didn't think I saw any rainbows, but there was a sense of "edginess" around the pixel when I got closer to the screen. And if I really paid close attention at the sitting position I could "feel" the edginess, but I had to concentrate on seeing it. Where these rainbows?


I spent about 30 minutes watching the movie and did not feel fatigued at all. So I need some help here. I like the Marantz, but I hope not all movies have this "pixelization" issue.


Any help is greatly appreciated....

- Dan


Equipment was:

Marantz DVD

B&K Ref 30 ( I think - could have also been a Marantz)

Component Video Connection to the Marantz

Screen Stewart of unknown type - salesman did not know.

 

[kyle76092]

My "off the cuff" remark is that if the salesman didn't even know what brand/type of screen they're using, would you trust anything he says or does?


From everything I've gathered, the 2nd generation DLPs are better, albeit perhaps marginally, than the 1st generation units. I've seen the Sharp 9000 and the Marantz 12S1 in action. I thought they were both great. I'm anxiously waiting for my Infocus 7200 to arrive. Good deal and I like the simplicity of its optics. No motorized lens shift to break and as clean and efficient a light path as is possible. I'm obviously buying it sight unseen but I'm doing so based on CEDIA reports from people I trust like Jason.


If you liked the Marantz S1 and you like the deal you can get on the S2, I'd say go for it. I think you will find it to be a fine unit.

 

[Bytehoven]

Quote:

When I got close up I noticed the edge of the pixels where not touching. Was the PJ focused correctly? And I also noticed the "dimple" in the pixel. [/b]

Hi Dan...


I was also able to see the Marantz 12S2 at my local HT shop. The projector is still at the top of my list for video quality.


The observations you noted above are normal and you would never see them at a "proper" viewing distance. Proper being a little different for each viewer. The other noise you mention may have been mpeg artifacts, which are also overly apparent when viewing to closely. A reduction in sharpness may have also helped reduce some of the edge without a loss of clarity.


If you have the chance to view the 12S2 again, walk off atleast 1.2-1.5x distance from the size of the screen. All of the artifacts you mentioned should disappear.


As far as rainbows... they are most apparent during rapid eye movement, particularly up and down. During an image with white type on a black background, move your point of focus from top/bottom/top very quickly. You may see a rainbow trail behind the white type.


Personally, I didn't see rainbows on the 12S2 unless I used such atypical eye movement.


IMHO, the 12S2 is among the best DLP units you can buy at that price/performance range. I settled for a lesser cost HT1000 strictly on the bases of cost, but if I had the extra cabbage to invest, I'd be a 12S2 owner.


Of course I have not seen the 7200 yet.


Good luck with your projector purchase.


RJ

...

 

[Dan2112]

RJ,


Thanks for the reply. I sat directly under the PJ and the screen was an 82" diagonal (72 W x40.5 H). So according to the throw chart that would put me at 1.5 - 1.7 times screen width.


As far as rainbows are concerned, then I did not see any then.


I am also waiting to see the 7200 at another dealer. Hopefully they will have the 7200 this week and tweaked by next week.


The close up screen comments were not meant as problems, more like observations. The only thing that bothered me at the sitting position was the "mpeg'" aberrations as you call them.


- Dan

 

[MichaelZ]

Dan, video material and/or the dvd player itself might have caused or been the factor in the aberrations you saw (garbage in = garbage out). As far as pixel structure, you should not be able to see that at all sitting at normal viewing distance, unless you have some kind of 20/8 vision

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Whenever I see this Dinosaur clip on the HD TVs at the local best buy...it always has exactly those MPEG-looking artifacts on the egg etc. Reading your comments reminded me of *exactly* what that looks like.


Interestingly, when I saw the same scene on the LT150 DLP driven by a HTPC...I saw no such artifacts (the image was absolutely stunning except for not being as bright as the Sharp 9000 we were comparing too...plus visible rainbows) so I'm assuming that they might not be inherent to the compressed image on the disc.


Was the signal progressive-scan feeding the projector? What was the DVD player?


-dave

 

[Jerry Pease]

Quote:

Originally posted by RJM321 If you have the chance to view the 12S2 again, walk off atleast 1.2-1.5x distance from the size of the screen. All of the artifacts you mentioned should disappear....

Sorry for the newbie question. When I read seating should be 1.5 x from what? screen width or height?

 

[DaViD Boulet]

width (good question).

 

[Dan2112]

Quote:

Originally posted by DaViD Boulet Was the signal progressive-scan feeding the projector? What was the DVD player? -dave

Well it's good to see that I am not the only one who saw this.


Good Question. The projector was fed a component signal but I did not think to ask about the DVD player (which was a Marantz).


I am planning to use DVI at native resolution (ala HTPC) for this PJ so it's good to hear that it disappeared using a HTPC with the Sharp.

 

[MovieMan]

Im thinking the MPEG artifacts you see is player related...


On my Marantz s1, The Zoolander DVD (I know its awful!), there is a scene where there is a strong red background. If you have seen the movie you know what scene Im talking about. Doesnt matter anyway, but there is a area on the wall where a spotlight is directed on the wall, causing many shades of red. On my Pannny RP91, this is extremely pixelated. So much so, that you can see it 20 feet back, but ONLY with component at 480i. Switch to 480p, and the "dithering" disappears. When I switched to another DVD, the problem was no longer there either way (480i,480p)



Is it the projectors fault? I dont know, but seeing how switching the player got rid of the problem completely leads me to believe it is.



MovieMan