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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Help!!!!


I left my computer (Athlon XP 2000+, Giga-byte Tech GA-7DXR+ mobo, 60 gb ATA100 Maxtor hard drive on IDE0, Pioneer 104 DVD-R/RW and Toshiba DVD-ROM on IDE1, two Maxtor 80 gb ATA133 drives on IDE2, ATI All-in-Wonder Radeon Video Card with current drivers from ati.com, Windows XP Pro) running this morning when I went out for the day.


It was running Grokster (current version), Outlook Express 6, and Norton A/V 2002.


When I came back, the computer was off.


When I tried to start it, instead of loading Windows, it gave me a message that a problem was detected and Windows had been shut down to prevent damage to my computer. The technical info was:


STOP: 0x0000008E (0x0000005, 0x8052E396, 0xF7946040, 0x00000000)


I hit the reset button, and when XP was about to load, I got this error message:


PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA


....and the same message about Windows shutting down to prevent damage to my computer. This time, the technical info was:


STOP: 0x00000050 (0xFFFFFFF7, 0x00000000, 0x8058FAE4, 0x00000000)


Can someone tell me what the problem is?????????


Thanks....
 

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With so many harddrives at hand, I hope you made a clone or image of the machine before you intalled peer-to-peer. They have a nasty habit of killing the OS once in a while, or immediately unpon reboot.

Try to see if you can recover from the failure, put the CD back and try to repair it.

I clone my PC before using these, and after a few weeks I just restore the image and reinstall the P2P software, no spyware or anything...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi Justin,


Well this is really getting weird....


Just tried to recover from the CD as you suggested....


and the thing booted right up, no CD required! As if there was never anything wrong in the first place.......


And I hadn't even done anything to fix it....


Wonder if it might have been a heat-related problem? I've got fans going in that computer, but.....


Anyone know what temperature an Athlon XP 2000+ is supposed to operate at? And what temperature should cause me concern? I'm going to check the CPU temp next time I reboot....


Thanks...
 

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I have a Win2K machine that does something similar to this from time to time, I write it off as more M$ crap. It takes several reboots to recover.


You might make sure you do not have any loose hard drive cables or HD power plugs.


You can check the cpu/memory integrity of the machine using this memory testing program: DocMemory Download . I have traced a number of weird events on PCs to memory or CPU problems, usually when they get warm. I highly recommend checking out any newly built PC with this memory test. It's the best I have found in over 15 years of working with PCs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the info, Surferdude,


Meanwhile..... argh!!!!!


Woke up this morning to a black screen that said:


"Windows could not start because of an error in the software. Please report this problem as 'load needed DLL's for kernel.' Please contact your support person to report this problem."


Never seen THAT one before...


And since I left the computer running last night, that means it rebooted on its own again (or more accurately, shut down and TRIED to reboot).


I'll give that Docmemory program a try.


Thanks...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Just got done trying that Docmemory. It gave me a green/turquoise blank screen and nothing else. Didn't come up.


Might that mean my memory DIMM's are defective? They're 3 256 mb DDR DIMM's from Kingston.....


Just thought of another possibility.... The XP Professional CD I'm using was handed out free by Microsoft to employees of stores that sell Microsoft software about a month before XP was actually released. The CD says "not for retail or OEM distribution."


Maybe this was a copy from when it was still Beta testing and had a lot of bugs that won't be in a CD that I buy now???? Though I would have thought all those fixes I downloaded from Microsoft Windows Update would have fixed those issues....?


All thoughts appreciated, thanks.....
 

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Your mixture of symptoms suggests a hardware problem to me, possibly thermally related. Unfortunately, it could be just about anything, from disk to memory to CPU, or even something glitching on the motherboard -- whatever would cause intermittant data transfer errors when the system tries to load software off the disk.


I'd suggest leaving the system off for a while to see if it boots OK when cold, then try running thorough hardware diagnostics. IBM has some freely downloadable disk diagnostics that can be useful, especially with drives that support "SMART". See http://www.storage.ibm.com/hdd/support/download.htm


I'm not sure what to suggest for memory or CPU diagnostics.


You don't mention if you have ECC memory or non-parity. I've always insisted on using ECC mmemory, just to avoid the weird problems that can be caused by undetected memory errors.


I hope this helps a little.
 

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My approach to debugging a malfunctioning PC is to boot DOS from a floppy. The DocMemory floppy should do this; you can make a more comprehensive boot floppy using Win98. Make an emergency boot disk. Can only be done on Win98 AFAIK. If it won't boot DOS, you have real problems.


Then next step is to take everything out (all cards, unplug HDD) except the floppy and video. If it still won't boot, you can try removing DIMMs or juggling them around. If it still fails, it is either the mobo, vga, or the power supply. If you can, check the voltages on the power supply.


If it boots DOS in one of these states, then power off and start adding cards back in one at a time, and booting DOS each time, until you hit a snag and can isolate the issues.


It helps to use a simple PCI/VGA card, as the more complex video cards could be tripping things up as well.


If you made a FAT32 file system, you can view the HDD from the DOS floppy. If it is NTFS, then you have to mount the HDD on another XP/Win2k system to save any files. Which is one reason why I many times use FAT32 (although it is limited to 32Gig per partition as I recall).


I think the idea of letting it cool down and trying it is a good one.


On the XP subject, MS betas (at least the ones distributed to developers) have a time limit, and won't boot after a certain date or time or something. I don't know if you have that or not. Did you have to register it with MS? If not, I suspect it has some kind of limitation. Even developers have to activate their XP copies and are limited to 10 activations with the mother ship. Don't know about dealer distributions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yep, after a while sitting off, it boots right back up again. After it's on for a few hours, monitor goes blank and the computer reboots (or tries to, anyway).


When I try to reboot immediately after a crash, I get error messages like those I mentioned in my first post here. Let it sit, it boots up fine, waiting for the cycle to repeat itself in a few hours.


Sounds like a heat issue? I hit the PC Health section of the BIOS and saw the CPU temperature was 129 degrees Fahrenheit. I don't know what the ideal temp for an Athlon XP 2000+ should be, but that seems REALLY hot to me. None of my previous computers had CPU's anywhere near that hot. My most recent Athlon 1.2 gHz usually ran at 102 degrees. This one's running almost 30 degrees hotter.


I do have three fans running in the thing, but maybe it's time for more? Or maybe time to check the contact between the CPU and the heat sink/fan on top of it....? Can anyone else here with an Athlon XP 2000+ tell me what temp their CPU's are running at?


I did have to activate this XP Pro CD, even though I did get it for free in a seminar Microsoft had for employees of stores that were going to be selling XP. This was in August 2001, two months before the official XP release. I was wondering maybe it's missing some things that were in the final release? I doubt that's my problem though, I'm suspecting the heat thing more and more....


Y'all think I'm on the right track?


Thanks...
 

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I agree it sounds like something is getting hot.


But the temp measurement may not be out of line. Hard to say. The AMD specs say that the Athlon XP can measure die temp directly with an internal diode and that the die temp is limited to 90C-- yet the thermal shutdown temp recommended is 125C. Not sure why these conflict but both are much higher than your 129F (53.9C if I can punch my calculator right). It is a 60Watt chip so...it might get pretty warm. [later edit: I checked a 1200MHz Athlon happily running XP/Pro and read 134F so I think your cpu temp is okay]


Will the DocMemory program work when it is cold or does it always fail?


Added:


I see the problem with the DocMemory link I gave. This version can only be made on Win98. It is not putting anything on the boot tracks since the format /s is failing.


Try the later version: DocMemory v2
 

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In general, keeping things cool helps them to last longer. Variations in the manufacturing process makes some components more sensitive to high temperatures than others of the same type. Just because a manufacturer says a chip will work up to a particular junction temperature does not mean that it'll continue to work for very long. It's best to keep it as far below that temperature as possible.


Does the documentation for your BIOS tell what temperature sensors it's using? The junction temperature on the die usually will be quite a bit higher than the temperature where the chip enclosure makes contact with the heat sink.


While your case may include plenty of fans, it may not be doing a good job of removing heat from around the CPU chip. Some case designs include air ducts that surround the CPU. They both exaust the CPU's heat immediately and limit the amount of heat transferred to the rest of the box.
 

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I had the same issuer I think under Win Xp

Needed to reboot many times for the computer to pass the Loading screen ...


Solved it after I installed the latest firmware of the Motherboard ! That was just it ! I was mad cause I tried almost everything else !


Also with XP my DVD rom drive would not set in DMA mode... solved it the same way, by updating the firmware of the DVD Rom !

THAT IS SOOO IMPORTANT : always check the latest firmware !!!!


Cheers,

Cedric
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Downloaded Docmemory 2.0, passed all tests, at least when running from cold boot. Yet to try it immediately after a crash....


Also downloaded latest BIOS from Gigabyte via their utility that updates BIOS while in Windows. I presume this is what was meant by "latest firmaware?" Anyway, we'll see what happens.


Also sent an e-mail to Gigabyte Technology tech support. Kind of annoying that they don't have support forums. Anyway, again we'll see what happens.


Thanks again, all....
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
*Sigh*


Another morning, another error message (that computer crashed and couldn't reboot again)....


This time it's a black screen saying:


"Windows could not start because the following file is missing or corrupt:


\\WINDOWS\\SYSTEM32\\CONFIG\\SYSTEM"


Guess I'll hit the reset button and run Docmemory now.....
 

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I received an almost identical error this weekend on my HTPC.

Quote:
A problem has been detected and windows has been shut down to prevent damage to your computer.


A problems seem to be caused by the following file: ntfs.sys


PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA


*** STOP: 0x00000050 (0XBA037B28, 0x00000001, 0XF8158741, 0X00000000)


*** ntfs.sys - Address F8158741 base at F8158000, Datestamp 3B7DC5D0
My hard drive stopped booting, so I wiped it clean, and tried to reload XP. After it finished the format, I received this error when copying files over.


I thought it was a hard drive issue, so I downloaded Maxtor's hard drive utility, and it passed all their tests. I did a low level format and installed 2k without a problem. I check out Asus site for new BIOS for the Asus P4S533. I see that there was a problem with XP loading and BIOS v1006 is suppsed to correct it. They also released 1007. I snagged 1007, and went to update the BIOS, I see that I actually 1006, so that doesn't seem to be the issue. I updated the BIOS to 1007, and tried to installa again and got the same error.

SO back to Win2k I go. Installs fine. I download the video drivers, and a few other things, and then upgrade IE to v6.0. The computer reboots, and the onboad NIC is dead!! I swap cables, no link lights, I swap ports, no light! UGH! I swear someone is gonna die! I had XP installed on the machine fine for a week with no problems, now this!

Help?


Dizzy
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hey Surferdude,


Seems I was a bit premature when I said my computer passed all the Docmemory tests. I should have said it passed the Docmemeory QUICK TESTS.


I started it doing the BURN IN tests when I left for work this morning. When I got back home this afternoon, it had passed 11 tests and failed 15. I don't know which tests are which, unfortunately, because the computer was locked up. Keyboard didn't work at all. Mouse could move but clicking did nothing. So needless to say, printing a report was out of the question. The "elapsed time" counter was frozen at 7:00:13, about two hours before I got home.


So, ya think I should dump this unregistered PC2100 memory and replace it with the more expensive registered DDR?


And Mobius, I've had at least two of the error messages mentioned in your link. Needless to say I printed it out and will be looking into that angle, too.


Thanks again, all..........
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well gang,


I downloaded and tried the Docmemory program recommended by Surferdude. During the "burn-in" tests, my computer passed 11 tests and failed 15 of them, then locked up during what I guess would have been the 27th test (time elapsed counter was frozen at 7:00:13).


Started removing two memory modules at a time and running the computer with only one. And tried different modules in different slots. System still crashed every time. Am I correct in assuming:


1. Either all three of my memory modules are defective, or...


2. This type of memory (unbuffered non-parity PC2100 DDR from Kingston) has some sort of conflict with my Giga-Byte GA-7DXR+ mobo...?


3. The memory modules might be overheating? The tigerdirect.com catalog has DDR memory fans for sale. Might these help?


Just for grins I went to crucial.com and punched in my mobo. Unregistered non-parity PC2100 DDR is one of the options they list for it, so I would think in theory this type of RAM wouldn't be a problem?


Oh, and just what IS the difference between unbuffered non-parity, unbuffered ECC, and registered ECC, anyway? Crucial lists all three of these options for buying DDR for my mobo. My primary use for this computer (when and if I stop it from crashing) will be to import video files from my ReplayTV, edit out commercials, and burn them to DVD.


Suggestions where I go from here? Thanks...
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Here's an update (though it looks like most people lost interest a while back )....


I was going to try some ECC DDR to see if it made a difference. Unfortunately, I spent so much time cursing this computer in recent weeks I forgot to do more mundane things like, say, pay the Visa bill. *DOH!*


So during the next few days while I'm waiting for my check to reach the bank, I redid the CPU and heatsink/fan. It looked okay using just the square of gel that came on the fan, but I put on some more thermal gel anyway.


I also put in another fan. A huge one that takes up a 5" drive bay by itself WITHOUT a drive. It blows air out the front of the PC so fast, you'd think it was one of my floor vents.


It's been running six hours now with no crash (knocking on wood here). And the SiSoft Sandra diagnostic program tells me the CPU is running ten degrees Fahrenheit cooler than it did before. Probably MORE than ten degrees, since I only checked the temp at boot before, when the CPU wasn't actually doing anything yet. Right now it's uploading a 700mb AVI file on Grokster AND downloading a 3.15gb MPG from my ReplayTV, and still running 10 degrees cooler than it previously ran while doing nothing.


Keep your fingers crossed for me......!


Thanks....
 
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