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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,


First post here, hopefully a good one. :D


I have been into car audio for quite some time and I know that metal tweeters just bring pain to my ear (save some really really high end stuff with some great crossover networks). I was auditioning an Integra Reciever not to long ago and it was paired with some Definitive Tech bookshelfs with metal tweeters. The shrill's and excessive brightness was painful. I was hoping my greater distance from the tweeters may calm them down a bit, but they still did not please my ear.


Onto the main part... I have been looking at the axiom speakers (among rockets and aperion) for a much needed upgrade. However, I notice the axioms are big on their titanium tweeters while the other two have fabric tweeters. This has been worrying me. Out of those who have heard the axiom's, how does the tweeter sound? Is it better suited and less bright than most metal tweeters?


Lastly, does anyone know of someone in Austin with axioms kind enough to show them off? :)


Thanks alot for your help.
 

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I have the Axiom M60's, with initial listening, at above normal levels. (ya know how ya got to crank your new speakers). they seemed a little bright. but I am talking about levels that I could only listen to for short periods, about twice as loud as I usually listen to music. I was also listeng to some old Aerosmith, with Steven Tylers sometimes screechy voice. I listened to my whole CD collection over a weeks time. it does depend on the CD though. some of the older ones sound terrible, not the speakers themselves, but how the music was mixed originally. I like the sound of my speakers. I spent alot of time setting them up properly, and am happy with my results. But those are my ears, not yours, or Bobs down the street. My tastes in music are different than yours, and my room is different. I tried the Def Techs, BP2006 towers, and thought they sounded great in the store. I was willing to try Axioms in my own home, unheard, and am happy with my purchase. I wish you luck.
 

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I would not worry about the materials used in tweeters (or other drivers), because the sound of a speaker is determined largely by the design philosophy of the brand and its engineers, rather than the driver material. You can make a laid-back, mellow sounding speaker with a metal dome tweeter (in fact, some Rocket models with metal tweeters are such examples); conversely, a speaker with a silk dome tweeter can sound excessively bright and aggressive. In fact, the design engineer does not even need "high-end" technologies or parts to alter the character of his speaker drastically; just drop the tweeter level by a few dB, and the sound would become more mellow, warm and laid-back. Elevate the tweeter by a few dB, and it would be more detailed, accurate and airy. Of course, the actual process of speaker design is much more complex than this, but you get my point... My understanding is that the main reason for Axiom to use titanium tweeters is that the dome itself doubles as a heat sink, significantly increasing the power handling. If you look at Axiom's specs, you will notice that they are very efficient, yet simultaneously have a very high power handling (read, good dynamic range).


As for the Axiom sound, to me personally they never ever sound excessively bright or fatiguing. But as everybody emphasizes, that is my taste, and YMMV. Yes, the Axioms have always been described as accurate, neutral, detailed and airy, rather than warm, laid-back, relaxed or mellow. An "accurate" sound to one person might be "too bright" to another; "mellow" to one might be "dull" to another...


Also, as vtimpaler mentioned, Axiom's "accuracy" -- its virtue to me -- renders it sometimes very unforgiving on bad recordings. Unfortunately, many productions of rock/pop CD's are intentionally tuned "hot" so that they sound pretty good on FM radio, boomboxes and average car speakers (which tend to have VERY rolled-off highs). I believe that most of the complaints on Axiom's "brightness" are in fact the consequence of listening to these "hot" recordings through the accurately sounding speakers.
 

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I feel Sushi has summed it up very well. I also find the Axiom tweeter to yield a "listenable" amount of detail and energy on good recordings. That the sound is very accurate to the source.


However not everyone prefers this type of sound. And it can be grating on poor recordings.


In general, I would not recommend Axiom to someone who indicated that they liked a warm, laid-back, smooth, or mellow sound.


I will qualify that a bit further to add that the "Axiom" sound might appeal to a larger audience when using movies as a source, as all of the detail can really add to the soundtrack. Faint footsteps down a long hallway are very distinct, leaves rustling on a lawn are noticable, etc. But those same qualities could be overly bright or fatiguing on music to some ears.


Tom B.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thats exactly what I wanted to hear. Now if only I can find someone who will audition them for me although spending the shipping charges to audition them myself isn't a bad alternative.... Thanks alot for all your help.
 

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zero, you can first order a pair of bookshelf fronts or perhaps the center channel only, to see if you like the Axiom sound at all. Even if you do not like them, the return shipping would not be too bad as compared to returning the whole 5.1 system. Also, do not forget about the Factory Outlet. In fact, I ordered mine F.O., and I cannot find any supposed "cosmetic blemishes"...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Is the factory outlet on the www.axiomaudio.com webpage or is it a separate webpage?
 

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Preface: I have never heard Axiom Speakers.


I read many posts on their message boards in researching the Axiom line. Certain individuals, including company representatives, mentioned adding a resistor to tone down the tweeter.


Some food for thought for you.


Maybe some Axiom owners can respond with more detail - no pun intended.


Best Regards,


Gerry
 

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Quote:
Is the factory outlet on the www.axiomaudio.com webpage or is it a separate webpage?
Go the main Axiom webpage, click Store on the top left, then click Special Deals, that takes you to the factory outlet. As an alternative, even when I haven't found what I'm looking for in the factory outlet on the web, I have called and they generally have some in stock in the factory outlet. And I have never seen any blemishes either.
 

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In regards to the tweeter/treble performance of the Axiom tweeters I found them to be both foward and very bright. In fact, of the last 12 sets of speakers I have owned they were by far the brightest.


-Brian
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hmm... My ear is pretty hating of bright speakers and it sounds like these speakers are more bright than most. Might be back to the drawing board until I can throw around some cash and test speakers in my home.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by zero-R
Hmm... My ear is pretty hating of bright speakers and it sounds like these speakers are more bright than most. Might be back to the drawing board until I can throw around some cash and test speakers in my home.
zero-R,


I found out my ears are similar to yours in this regard. i owned the M60's and ended up selling them after 6 months of trying everything, resistors, acoustic material, you name it. With that said I still liked how detailed they were, it's just my ears literally would hurt when listening to many of my cd's. But, many and I mean "MANY" people love them. So if in doubt try them out.


I myself am thrilled with the new Phase Technology Teatro series speakers I just purchased. The Soundstage is nothing short of incredible! The detail and imaging to my ears surpasses the Axioms, BUT their fabric dome tweeters sound sweet and smooth. If you have a dealer near you, go check them out. I got the 11.5's (discontinued :( but if the dealer has them you can get a big discount), 6.5, and bipolar surrounds for $1448 (that's 25% off the retail of the entire package). They like the Axioms don't have the mid-bass emphasis that many speakers do now a days. They are very neutral sounding, but pack a big low end punch with a built-in sub!


BTW: The founder of Phase tech. invented and holds that patent for the fabric dome tweeter. All of their speakers are made in the USA with their own parts and carry a 10 year warranty on the speakers and a 5 year warranty on electronics:) P.S. Check out the great review Here:
http://www.phasetech.com/reviews/htm..._frameset.html



Just my .02. You should definately test as many speakers as possible, preferrably in your own home, before you decide what's right for you!


Best of luck!

Patrick
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Patrick,


Thanks for the review. I think the Axiom's may be out of the running for now unless I can find someone near me so I can give them a listen myself.


My girlfriend's father is a HT nut and has some Phase Tech bookshelfs in his computer room (he's got Sonus Faber in his HT room... Lucky dog). I haven't really given them a good listen before but now that you suggest them, I'll have to do that. THanks again to everyone for their help.
 

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Quote:
I read many posts on their message boards in researching the Axiom line. Certain individuals, including company representatives, mentioned adding a resistor to tone down the tweeter.
Yes, that is a very easy way to "tame" a tweeter that is felt to be too bright, of course not only for the Axiom's tweeters but for any other brands. You simply clip a resistor in parallel with the tweeter driver, and that is it. Axiom's tech service guy will give you the necessary resistors (there are several - dropping the tweeter by 1 dB to a few dB) for free in case you find them needed.


The accuracy and neutrality of the Axiom speakers can be a "sword with dual edges" under certain conditions, rendering it "too bright." Besides your own preferences/tastes, such conditions include: (1) highly reflective room interior - such as a large area of stone or hardwood floors and concrete walls, or a large glass table in front of the speaker; (2) as I posted before, those "hot" EQ'ed recordings. Under these conditions, "taming" the tweeter will certainly make the speaker mellower and more relaxed. In return, you will slightly lose some details and resolution. It is a trade-off.


Some people categorically consider the Axioms as "too bright." I fully understand and accept that it is their taste and preference. However, if you go to a "heavily acoustic" live concerts -- e.g., a classical concerts or a live Jazz sessions -- most people will immediately realize how "bright" the live music sound actually is. You inevitably feel the "bite" and "brilliance" of the sonority of live acoustic instruments. That is what I personally desire in my living room...
 

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Sushi,


I would like to try a resistor on my speakers. Parts express has dozens. Which one would be a good one to try? I have no clue.


Also, what about and "L" pad?


-Brian
 

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Hey Sushi;


Answer me this. If lots people (namely I've seen at least maybe 10 or more different individuals on the Axiom site) requesting how to update the resistors on the M22, M60 and M80 to tame a little bit of the metal tweets. Isn't that a clue that some Axiom owner do think it is too bright, forward and harse at times.

My personal opinion is that most people on there are brainwashed by the other Axiom theology pushed by owners saying it is the "BEST" speakers at any price. I did buy the M22 and the QS4. I demoed the M60 & M80. The speakers are okey.

If I actually said this on the site I would be chastised by the few supposed moderators and experts on that site.

They are good budget speakers. And thats it. There many speakers out there even pricing not too far off. People say Axioms have "DETAIL". I say its "forward sounding and a little harsh". After 2+ hours of music listening I get ear fatique.

There are much more speakers out there that a decently priced for a little more money and I personally think sound better for MY taste and ears.


PMC, B&W, Warfedale, Tannoy, Acoustic Energy, Quad, Jamo, Dynaudio


One issue why it is difficult to do a A-B comparison is due to the fact that most of there sales are internet direct and the local dealers that do carry them only carry other brands that are within its price range. I have not seen any Axiom with any of the brands above. I have seen Axiom in store that carry Paradigm, NHT, Sonys and other all in one HT solution.



Saturn
 

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IMHO Axioms are harsh and bright. They do not live up to the hype in any way, except price.


You will notice that no reputable magazine has reviewed the speakers. It's a shame that so many people ordered them because of one review site. People do not seem to realize that Axiom "bought" their reviews from AdStage, errr...... I mean SoundStage.


-Brian
 

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Axiom in the same price ballpark as PMC and Quad? Little doubt PMC and Quad are better speakers (I have owned Quad ESLs and seriously considered 11Ls... I ended up with PMC FB1's in my family room)... but they are not even in the same ballpark price wise. I bought my entire Axiom setup (7.0... I have custom subs) for a little more than a single pair of Quad 11L's would have cost me.


I sold off a few thousand dollars in speakers and downgraded to an Axiom setup for HT. It was one of the best moves I have made. I have even used them for music driven by 10 watt tube amps and thought they performed extremely well (my main system is 'stat based... though highly customised).


Bottom line... a lot is about personal taste... but I would not discard them out of hand. Also, tweeter attenuation is *not* a big deal... one property of very high end speakers is the ability to tune them to your room... just because it is a lowly resistor (and note: I do not use resistors on mine... though my room is heavily damped on the sidewalls... bass traps.. etc etc) is no reason to look down upon it. Some people *like* to tweak.. in fact... I think that is where most of the fun lies...


med.
 

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Quote:
IMHO Axioms are harsh and bright. They do not live up to the hype in any way, except price. You will notice that no reputable magazine has reviewed the speakers. It's a shame that so many people ordered them because of one review site. People do not seem to realize that Axiom "bought" their reviews from AdStage, errr...... I mean SoundStage.
Actually, it's not a shame at all that so many people have ordered Axiom speakers, because they are excellent speakers. You are absolutely entitled to your own opinion, but to completely dismiss a review from Soundstage is also a slap in the face to all of the Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 owners who were psyched to see a positive review of their speakers on Soundstage recently. I presume they are all suckers also. Regarding Axiom, I guess they bought the reviews from Audiorevolution, Audioholics, Audioworld, and others also. And, how many reviews of Rockets, Ascend, etc. have there been in so-called "reputable magazines." The beauty of these brands is they spread by word of mouth, not necessarily reviews in print magazines.


The people that post about Axioms on this and other sites are the same types of people that post about Paradigm, Energy, Rockets, on and on. They are owners who have compared different speakers, made a choice, and been happy with their purchase. There are many Axiom owners who fall into this camp.


Your dislike of Axiom speakers is another reason for people to make their own decisions on speakers instead of listening to other people, but there are enough people who have bought Axioms and loved them that they should be on people's list to consider.
 

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I feel like if I am going to shell out my hard earned bucks on a product developed by skilled engineers, I shouldn't have to add a resistor to get it to sound the way I want. I think you are better off finding the speaker that suits your taste and making your purchase.


The point I am making is that I am sure Axiom makes a quality product. There are credible people who post on this forum that enjoy the sound, so I dont think there is any brainwashing going on! I just think that if you have to alter the original design, maybe the speaker is not for you.


-Gerry
 
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