[Ethenolas]

I did some searching and couldn't find any dedicated B&K owner's threads...so here it is.


B&K doesn't get mentioned much around here, but I think they are fabulous in creating very musical sound.


I hope there are enough followers to keep this thread alive.


Best,


Ethenolas

 

[Ethenolas]

AVS seems to have very small amount of B&K enthusiasm...I'll try once more to spark something...then into the bowels of AVS.


I'm waiting on a Reference 4430 to add to my AVR 307.


I'm excited to see how it will add to my fronts!

 

[brandonnash]

I just moved a B&K AVR-307 into my room. I'm hooking it up now to see how it sounds. I would think that B&K would have a little more support than it did. I think the 5800 series of denons just way outsold them and that's why their following is so small.

 

[Toys7505]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethenolas /forum/post/16902566


AVS seems to have very small amount of B&K enthusiasm...I'll try once more to spark something...then into the bowels of AVS.


I'm waiting on a Reference 4430 to add to my AVR 307.


I'm excited to see how it will add to my fronts!

You will have alot more "headroom" w/ the 4430 running your front speakers. There should be a noticable audible difference going from the AVR to the 4430.


I currently have a ex4420 and tx4430 for my home theater setup, they still sound superb after more than 10yrs of use!

 

[brandonnash]

Quick question for b&k users, I have noticed that when changing inputs I have to switch surround modes to get it to pick up a signal. Is there any way around this? I am really liking this receiver even though it is a few years old, but I can see that after a while this may get a little annoying.

 

[brandonnash]

Ethenolas, is the way for it to "auto detect" the signal to setup all the extra audio modes in the setup? Ie. pick a favorite 2 channel format, favorite surround, favorite THX, etc?

 

[Antibayi]

B&K owner here. I have a Ref 31 and a 7270 multi channel amp. They are mated to a pair of NHT 2.9's, one AC2, four 1.5's, and a subone i. IMO, B&K and NHT are an excellent match.


As much as I love B&K, I am down on them for 2 reasons: they take forever to respond, or simply don't respond, to inquiries via e-mail, and they showed poor foresight with their older processors by not including a 7.1 input.


Having said that, I will eventually get a Ref 70. Their stuff just sounds so good for what you pay.


Regards,

Brian

 

[Lhasa-lover]

B&K makes great gear, no doubt. But they don't get much attention around here because so many of us got burned by them, left the brand, and they don't care. Really. They just don't. The main issue is that claim that they don't leave people behind. Tell that to an AVR307 owner. We paid thousands for our receivers, partially based on B&K's claim that they would provide a platform for moving up. Then they released the 507. They told us that the upgrade would be made available to us for over A YEAR AND A HALF. before any upgrade was make available. And the cost was HUGE. It was cheaper to sell the 307 and buy a 507. No exaggeration. So that's what some of us did. Others left the brand behind. They kept telling us that the upgrade was a month away. Two months away. Ready to be released. Next month. It was going to be a nominal charge of $100. No, make that $200. A YEAR AND HALF LATER we were offered the upgrade for $900. So they lost some of us. Then we bought the AVR507. Great kit but it popped, clicked, and whined. A lot of them. They spun it every which way but eventually they introduced the AVR507 series 2. No pops, no whines, no clicks. Great. But guess what? We were told that the upgrade from the 307 to the 507 and then upgrade to the series 2 was a months away. Two months away. They kept spinning us telling us that the upgrade was just about done. And guess what? THEY OFFERED NO UPGRADE. NONE. They said "sorry, I know we promised you a platform of never being left behind but we are leaving you behind. No upgrade to the series 2 was offered. Why? Licensing issues with THX. It seems there was a THX label on the orginal receivers and the new series 2 didn't offer THX. THX wanted them to pay for the right to remove the label during the upgrade and B&K said no. So guess what? a LOT more of us got left behind. Then they came out with the AVR707. It was supposed to have codecs for all new HD audio and EQ. Guess what. It doesn't. Sorry, those will be provided in a month or two. Now, A YEAR LATER guess what? You got it. Nothing. Not even promises this time. No upgrade for the 507 owners. An incomplete receiver, at best. And no news as to when it will be finished. The upgrade was supposed to be free but now there's talk of a charge. It just goes on and on and on and on. So what happens is every time they leave somebody behind, or charge them for something that was promised for free, or take a year or more to release something that was promised in a month or two, they lose customers. They lose a LOT of customers and that's why not a lot are left. You only have to read the current B&K Ref70 thread running right now to see the issue. A popping, clicking preprocessor/receiver that cost twice as much as many others with half the features and promises about upgrades that will never come.


But if you buy their gear as is. If you don't care or want any upgrades and just take it at face value. Especially if you buy used. It's great gear that sounds good. My guess is that this thread will run out of gas pretty quickly.

 

[Skers]

I always buy B&K used, great value...used. I have Ref30 upstairs and REf50 in the theater mated to B&K 5 channel & 7 channel 200watt amps. I agree 100% with the above post.

 

[VTGOLFER]

I have owned B&K in the past and love their sound but as lhasa-lover mentions their customer service is crap. I am looking to upgrade from a receiver to hopefully a pre/pro and I have B&K on my radar along with the Denon 4810, Emotiva UMC-1, Integra DHC-80.1 and the Reference 70 but I will not purchase the Reference 70 until B&K comes out with the upgrade that has been promised for well over a year now with the new codecs included.


The reason and only reason B&K is still in business in my opinion is the custom installers they have as dealers. They sell to people and install the gear and that is about it.


I just don't understand their business practices which stinks because they have nice sounding gear.

 

[fhidayat]

I am a REF50S2 owner for the past 5+ years. Its 5.1 Analog passthrough is excellent and has been doing really well with my SACD collections. However, it is dated and I am ready to move on. I have ruled out REF70 as an upgrade, for the reasons mentioned above, and more importantly, for the missing analog passthrough.


Any suggestion for a current HT Pre/Pro with analog passthrough?

 

[panzer]

I am looking for mono blocks for my aerial 7B's, I gave up trying to buy the emotiva xp 1's, they keep changing the dates that they will be available, I came across a pair of b&k 4420m mono blocks at a atractive price, looking for some opinions on them, there are no reveiws on them, thanks

 

[Chris Kane]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lhasa-lover /forum/post/17917707


B&K makes great gear, no doubt. But they don't get much attention around here because so many of us got burned by them, left the brand, and they don't care. Really. They just don't. The main issue is that claim that they don't leave people behind. Tell that to an AVR307 owner. We paid thousands for our receivers, partially based on B&K's claim that they would provide a platform for moving up. Then they released the 507. They told us that the upgrade would be made available to us for over A YEAR AND A HALF. before any upgrade was make available. And the cost was HUGE. It was cheaper to sell the 307 and buy a 507. No exaggeration. So that's what some of us did. Others left the brand behind. They kept telling us that the upgrade was a month away. Two months away. Ready to be released. Next month. It was going to be a nominal charge of $100. No, make that $200. A YEAR AND HALF LATER we were offered the upgrade for $900. So they lost some of us. Then we bought the AVR507. Great kit but it popped, clicked, and whined. A lot of them. They spun it every which way but eventually they introduced the AVR507 series 2. No pops, no whines, no clicks. Great. But guess what? We were told that the upgrade from the 307 to the 507 and then upgrade to the series 2 was a months away. Two months away. They kept spinning us telling us that the upgrade was just about done. And guess what? THEY OFFERED NO UPGRADE. NONE. They said "sorry, I know we promised you a platform of never being left behind but we are leaving you behind. No upgrade to the series 2 was offered. Why? Licensing issues with THX. It seems there was a THX label on the orginal receivers and the new series 2 didn't offer THX. THX wanted them to pay for the right to remove the label during the upgrade and B&K said no. So guess what? a LOT more of us got left behind. Then they came out with the AVR707. It was supposed to have codecs for all new HD audio and EQ. Guess what. It doesn't. Sorry, those will be provided in a month or two. Now, A YEAR LATER guess what? You got it. Nothing. Not even promises this time. No upgrade for the 507 owners. An incomplete receiver, at best. And no news as to when it will be finished. The upgrade was supposed to be free but now there's talk of a charge. It just goes on and on and on and on. So what happens is every time they leave somebody behind, or charge them for something that was promised for free, or take a year or more to release something that was promised in a month or two, they lose customers. They lose a LOT of customers and that's why not a lot are left. You only have to read the current B&K Ref70 thread running right now to see the issue. A popping, clicking preprocessor/receiver that cost twice as much as many others with half the features and promises about upgrades that will never come.


But if you buy their gear as is. If you don't care or want any upgrades and just take it at face value. Especially if you buy used. It's great gear that sounds good. My guess is that this thread will run out of gas pretty quickly.

Okay, I've been aware of the crappy customer service for some time now and much, if not all, of what is said above is true. That said, my understanding of the situation differs with the comments above (see bold).


1. While I can't speak for the 507 customers, I can speak for the Ref. 50 (S1) owners. I was offered an upgrade to the Ref. 50 S2 for $700. Part of the cost was a new faceplate.


2. I don't recall B&K ever stating, in print, that the latest units would have HD audio and EQ. Yes, their dealers indicated they would be supplying an HD audio board in the future and I wouldn't be surprised if they made verbal promises re: that board. As far as EQ is concerned, I'm not sure what Lhasa is referring to. Are we talking automated EQ? If so, I've never heard anyone promise that. Not even their dealers. I also have not heard any official word about being charged for the board so I'm not going to get all wound up about that until I hear something more concrete.


3. Lastly, while my Ref.50 made mild clicking/popping noises when changing inputs, it was never bad. That said, a sizable number of owners indicated that the problem was bad and I believe them. However, my Ref. 70 has NEVER clicked or popped. I'm not suggesting that it doesn't exist in other units - just not mine.


ck

 

[moodyda]

I'm sorry I have to agree with some of the posts above, as I have posted this on the B&K ref 70 link. B&K sold me in '99 with a Reference 20. I have been happy for years and I paired it with an AVS 5000 5 channel amp. But..... when the sub out went I called for a fix and was greeted with an "upgrade". They informed me that I could get yesterdays technology (Ref 31) for a measely $998 plus shipping and tax or why not go for the Ref 70 for $2,700 (after the $1,000 upgrade credit for my Ref 20). After being out of the game since '99, I did a lot of research and found that neither were "good deals". Hell I could get a Ref 50 on Audiogon for $500 or less. My point being that they do not cultivate loyalty in ownership with those choices for upgrades especially when I was looking, back in December, and they told me that the Ref 70 wouldn't even be ready until the end of January. I then decided to audition a Pioneer Elite SC-25 from a local Best Buy who then had it for $999 (down from $1,699). So I figured "what the heck" and jumped on it, figuring I could always return it within the 30 days. To make a long story short I still have the Pioneer and trying to figure out why I would even consider returning it. This was hard for me as I was a firm believer in the "boutique" type of products such as B&K, especially since last auditioning the Pioneer, Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha "Receiver types" in '99 and they all pailed in comparison to the B&K, Krell, Lexicon "Seperates types"!! At that time I was coming from a decent 2 channel set-up by Adcom. Well truth be told those "receiver types" have cought up to the "seperates" and then some. I originally thought that I would use my B&K amp to power the front 3 and use the Pioneer amp to do the rest, but I have found that the Ice (class D amp) on the Pioneer is great and there is no Audible or measurable difference between that and my old B&K amp. This will save a lot of space on the rack and force me to sell my B&K (any Takers...). I guess with the rate of technological change it is going to be hard for a B&K type company to keep up with those larger companies without charging Krell type of prices. It truly is a shame because I did love seeing "Built in the USA" on my gear but I also have to pay the mortgage and save for the kids to go to college now. That is my 2 cents worth anyhow.

 

[Lhasa-lover]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Kane /forum/post/17919660


Okay, I've been aware of the crappy customer service for some time now and much, if not all, of what is said above is true. That said, my understanding of the situation differs with the comments above (see bold).


1. While I can't speak for the 507 customers, I can speak for the Ref. 50 (S1) owners. I was offered an upgrade to the Ref. 50 S2 for $700. Part of the cost was a new faceplate.


2. I don't recall B&K ever stating, in print, that the latest units would have HD audio and EQ. Yes, their dealers indicated they would be supplying an HD audio board in the future and I wouldn't be surprised if they made verbal promises re: that board. As far as EQ is concerned, I'm not sure what Lhasa is referring to. Are we talking automated EQ? If so, I've never heard anyone promise that. Not even their dealers. I also have not heard any official word about being charged for the board so I'm not going to get all wound up about that until I hear something more concrete.


3. Lastly, while my Ref.50 made mild clicking/popping noises when changing inputs, it was never bad. That said, a sizable number of owners indicated that the problem was bad and I believe them. However, my Ref. 70 has NEVER clicked or popped. I'm not suggesting that it doesn't exist in other units - just not mine.


ck

As you said, what I said is true. Regarding the upgrades: I had a 307 and paid to upgrade it to the 507 but none of us who paid were offered an upgrade to series 2. And that is fact. We were told it had to do with THX licensing issues. I sold my upgraded 307 and bought a 507 based on their statement about the upgrade being offered for a "nominal" price to the series 2, shortly. And you are right. They did eventually offer it but I guess $700 is not really a nominal price for some, certainly not me. So I said the hell with it, sold my receiver and bought a Ref50. Clicked and popped. Sent it in for service. Got it back. It whined. They never solved the problem. Then they left us behind when the Ref70 came out. It gets old. The Ref 70 was supposed to include MultiEQ XT. That's what every contact at B&K said. (you notice that they never say anything pubically) I was ready to pounce but this time I actually waited to see. Sure enough, it was released with no EQ and more promises. So I moved to NAD. I knew that the T-175 had not advanced decoding but it did have MultiEQ XT which is what I really wanted as my player can decode just fine. But then they shortly came out with plug in boards that supports Video and all the newer codecs. NAD released their plug in upgrades while B&K still hints about it. Great sound, no doubt. But as has been stated they care little about us retail customers. Their money is made via the installer and multi-room installs. Just a fact. If you love B&K sound, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference between them and NAD except NAD actually delivered their plug in upgrade boards, has MultiEQ XT with a custom Paul Barton designed curve that sounds great, and answers questions.

 

[billeickmann]

Same story for me. Bought a 307 about ten years ago. Loved the sound. Still do. Had some issues with customer service. My next will be something else. Wish it could be made in USA.

 

[moodyda]

c'mon B&K people, tell us what u think!!!!!!

 

[Antibayi]

One thing I forgot to mention, I purchased all my B&K used. I got a great deal on the amp, and I had my heart set on a B&K pre/pro. While looking for a pre/pro, the Ref 50 was available used for around $1000 and up. The Ref 30 was going for around $600-$800. I e-mailed B&K and they told me, IIRC, it was another $700 to upgrade to a Ref 31 (same guts as a Ref 50; no balanced outs). This was when B&K responded to e-mail inquiries. Why would anyone do the upgrade? You could sell the Ref 30, buy a Ref 50, and make money! I eventually found a nice used Ref 31 for about $850 and purchased it.

I've been very happy with the sound and performance of the B&K products, but after reading the above posts and thinking more about it, B&K has become a company filled with empty promises and poor upgrade choices for their user base. I'm no longer certain the Ref 70 is in my future. I'm going to seriously look at Arcam, Nad, and Rotel. Prices are similar, if not less, and, at least with Arcam, the sound will be as good. Maybe better?


Regards,

Brian

 

[Lhasa-lover]

Apologies if my posts seemed like rants against B&K. I was just trying to offer a reason why B&K, perhaps, doesn't get much ink around here. The lack of customer support aside, if you buy their products based on what you are getting then and not in the future, you will most likely be happy. Well built gear that sounds great.

 

[billeickmann]

I agree. Enjoy what you buy, but do not expect anything else from the company.