[WFulp]

I can purchase a B&K Ref 50 for about $2200 from an authorized dealer. I have read the reports about "whine" and extraneous noise in this unit. I will be blowing the budget to get this unit and can't afford to make a huge mistake. Are there any truly satisfied Ref 50 owners? I can get a Rotel RSP-1066 for $1300 or an Anthem AVM20 in the $3000 range (a bit too much for my taste). Any advice would be appreciated as this is my first move from mid-fi to semi high-end.

 

[Bachelor]

Count me as a satisfied Customer. I don't have the "whine" My buddy does, but honestly, when do you listen to your hardware with no material? It didn't keep me from a purchase. Currently I'm running my old receiver as an amp, (denon 2802), an amp is the next purchase in a few months. Love the sound, features, remote, presets, cosmetics, and flexibility. Biggest improvement I've done for my audio since Diva speakers.

 

[rkaufmann]

Me too, I'm very satisfied. I really don't understand why people are upset when the whine occurs with no material on and the volume turned up. That's like complaining your car engine makes noise when its revved sitting at a stop sign. I have read where some claim they can hear a whine in quiet passages but I sure can't.

 

[stopdog]

Check out the Fosgate FAPT1. It's as quiet as a church mouse. And once you have analog bass management for DVD-Audio/SACD, you'll never go back. Cool LCD screeen too on the front to impress your friends.

 

[fitsman]

I have been pretty vocal about my dislike of B&K the company, but for that price that is a great buy. Just look at all of these $4500 recievers out there and you got a great processor for $2200. You should be happy for a long time with it.

 

[John Ashman]

I have my own reasons for not liking B&K including an inability to deal effectively with customer complaints of amplifier and processor failures due to excessive heat. We switched to Fosgate and are selling the used B&K to people at lower altitudes where they'll cool better. We have had more than a dozen B&K customers switch to NAD or Fosgate in the last two or three months. All are much happier with their new gear. The Fosgates are really quiet and all of my B&K customers who have tried these have said things like "Blew away my B&K". B&K used to be an innovator. Now, they're getting "surrounded" by more able competition. What did they do on the Ref 50? Added balanced, PLII (finally!) and DTS-ES (finally!). That's it. However, you could do worse also. We've traded in a lot of bum units from other companies that REALLY suck, don't work, can't be fixed, etc. Like Adcom, Sunfire, H/K, etc. Sheesh.

 

[PlasmaSquid]

I've posted my experiences elsewhere, but to sum up, I ended up with the AVM20 (v2) after going through two Ref 50's.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=246008


If you can find a Ref50 without the noises, then it's truly a great product. I really wanted to get rid of the noise and keep mine. But the two I had in my setup, and the several others I auditioned in various store setups (with latest software), all had the whine. After speaking to someone at B&K, there was no indication of any "fix" in the plans.


To me, any audio product in this price range should be void of the noise floor I heard on the Ref 50. BTW, I found that I could hear the whine with the volume set at *any* level (even with mute engaged), when the room was quiet enough and from my normal listening position. Could it be that I'm more picky, or my ears are more sensitive than other? Yes.. I'm unsure whether this is the case, or whether there truly are "noise free" Ref 50's. I know that all the ones that I listened to sounded the same, and a person at B&K told me that some "processor noise" was completey normal, and there's nothing to fix.


Except for the remote control, I'm 100% satisfied with the AVM20. Sounds just as good (if not better), and there are no "noises". Both have features that the other does/doesn't, which will appeal to different people in different ways. The biggest feature differences (for my needs) are the very nice Presets on the Ref50, versus the better Bass Management on the AVM20. Minus any noises on the Ref 50 and the remote control of the AVM20, it's really a toss-up between the two. To me, no feature is worth dealing with sub-par audio specs. Both $2k and $3k are a lot of money for a box. In my opinion, saving $1k is nice, but it doesn't make the "product" any better. I didn't audition the Rotel, so I can't comment on it.


Many dealers have a money-back return period of a week to 30 days. If possible, the best thing would be to get all three units and try them out in your setup. Don't trust anyone, but yourself.

 

[Donnie Eldridge]

Count me as someone who is very satisfied with my Ref. 50. I have not encountered any processor whine with my unit. Your safest bet would be to purchase a unit from a dealer who offers a return policy. The unit seems to be particularly sensitive to certain combinations of equipment.

 

[Static Wick]

I have the Ref 30 and I am very satisfied with the product. On several occasions I played around with the Ref 50 and I found it to be great also. At $2200 it will be tough to find a true competitor.

 

[windwardtrades]

My experience with the Ref50/125.7 has been perfect so far.


Having said that, I did first buy a 507 and returned it because of #1 component video input being defective...#2 & #3 worked fine. I have software v1.00 and have no reason to upgrade as I have no problems, no whine, no noise....DVD-A is very impressive and I especially like the fact that I have finally parked 6 remotes and can use the remote and main unit software to do a thoughtful setup, especially utilizing the presets setup.


I do wonder, though, if the noise/whine is present only with the 200w amps rather than the 125 that I have.

 

[AgtCooper]

I'm bachelor's friend that has the 50 with slight noise, partially because the amp i'm using is a 200.7. I've auditioned tons of gear and it is one of my favorite pieces. The remote is hard to beat, presets are a godsend, and the notch filter does wonders for bass. Also it has a warm but revealing sound that is unique to B&K. I have no regrets AT ALL about purchasing this unit and the amp. Both are an OUTSTANDING deal for the money. If anything we should be applauding B&K's willingness to bring us the signal as it is. Most all others are "masking" this whine to hide it from your ears, which, the muting circuits will no doubt be one more obstacle in the signal path that audiophiles hate so much.

I'm not claiming to be a hardcore audiophile, but the audiophile in me says that i think it's more of a "good" thing than anything else.


The other thing is that people are listening to this noise at 0.0db with no signal. I have reference volume on my 200.7 at 11.0 db right now. And that's pretty loud. At that level I can't hear anything. I've listened to many of the other recievers that are extremely popular on these forums and i must honestly say that the sounds coming from the units with signals going through them are more offensive than the ref 50 is when it's pushed hard with NO SIGNAL.

 

[atdamico]

It shouldn't be assumed that the whine can only be heard when there is no playback. I hear the whine during playback of DVD's, DSS, VHS, and it whines during the actual playback of the material. It can be heard from 10' away, and can be heard from people who don't know it exists. This is not a subtle thing. Interesting item is that before I changed out my speakers (Infinity Overture 2's) it was not noticible. Now that I have Dunlavy speakers, it is loud and intruding. Called B&K, and they were terse and uncoopertive. My problem is that turning up the volume on movies, only covers the whine. At low volumes you can hear it mixed with the material. So don't assume that everyone is being unreasonible because it can only be heard with no source.

 

[Ralph Potts]

Greetings,


I love my Reference 50. I too have the processor noise and was part of the aforementioned thread. I agree that for some this issue can just be down right annoying. However, this is certainly not cause for real concern. I have experimented with my Ref. 50 at length and the processor noise is simply not audible during source playback.


I would recommend the Ref. 50 highly. This is a short coming however the unit's positive attributes far outweigh this issue.



Regards,

 

[Brian Corr]

atdamico - Do you think that your noise issue could be related to the speakers or the changes in the wiring that you made, and not the processor since the noise wasn't there before?


A poor connection, bad ground, etc can easily introduce excessive noise.

 

[nutt]

IMO, unless you can use the XLR connections, the B&K is overpriced. If you have a use for multichannel XLR, this unit is by far the best price I have seen. Without the need for that feature, I think you can find a prepro or receiver with all of the same features as the Ref 50 for a better price.


Tim

 

[Ralph Potts]

Greetings,

Quote:

I think you can find a prepro or receiver with all of the same features as the Ref 50 for a better price. Tim [/b]

Tim, this is a pretty bold statement. However I would like to see you back it up.........name it.



Regards,

 

[atdamico]

Quote:

Originally posted by Brian Corr atdamico - Do you think that your noise issue could be related to the speakers or the changes in the wiring that you made, and not the processor since the noise wasn't there before? A poor connection, bad ground, etc can easily introduce excessive noise.

Really good feedback. I checked all the connections as well as polarity, all are secure. I can't say, for a fact, that the noise wasn't there before, only that I didn't notice it. I wasn't until I switched to my Dunlavy speakers that it became noticible. Is it that the Dunlavy's are much more sensitive than the Infinity's? Don't know. The room that contains my HT equipment has a dedicated circuit. I have been told that if it was a power issue, that the noise would remain constant regardless of the volume on the unit, so the fact that the whine goes up and down in volume along with the volume of the unit rules out a ground loop. Also, this is a new home, in an upscale area, with underground utilities, and a dedicated circuit, and I power my equipment through a power conditioner, and I had no issues with my Yamaha or my NAD when they were in here. I am not an expert, but this is a B&K issue, pure and simple. With all due respect to those who say it is not an issue, they can really only say it is not an issue with their equipment. Agan, my whine is noticible from 10' away, clearly, all channels, all inputs, and during playback. The only way not to notice it is to turn up the source so loud that it drowns out the whine. And my dealer won't replace the unit. He mirrors B&K by saying that it is normal. My question to him and B&K is: How can it be normal to have noise mixed with the source material? I don't mind hearing what the musician wanted me to hear and I don't mind hearing what the film maker wanted me to hear, but I do mind that I have to listen to what my B&K equipment "adds" to the material.

 

[dmheath]

Well, I will add my .02. At $2200, I wouldn't think twice about buying the B&K. I auditioned one for a couple of weeks, comparing it to my Krell Showcase, and honestly had a hard time deciding which was better. The Ref 50 has it hands down for features, ease of use and remote control. But, I was trying to keep my focus on sound quality. Don't get me wrong, the B&K sounds awesome. But, I felt the Krell has a little more detail and a deeper soundstage. Sometimes I wish I would have overlooked the SLIGHTLY better sound quality to have the Ref50 features. But, the price difference was only $600.


There's a thread I started (B&K vs KRELL, or something to that effect) if you want a little more detail. Keep in mind, it's just my subjective opinion and really means nothing.


Also, I never heard any whine or noise coming from the B&K.


DAVE

 

[phyre3]

I have to admit that people complaining about a whine with no signal present and the volume up seems very trivial. I just listened to a high end 2 channel preamp with good signal to noise ratio that has a whine too with the volume not even close to the 00 on the B&K. I'm convinced that the only reason anyone is complaining about it, it is because others have a muting circuit to mask it and the B&K does not. If however the whine is present at normal listening volume with no signal from a distance of more than 2 meters I can understand the complaint but from the B&K's I've heard this is not the case. Perhaps B&K will include a muting circuit to mask such things in the furture so people will not notice it (even though it is still there). If something that small is going to bug you stay away from the B&K, if not, 2200 is a great deal.


On the other hand the B&K sounds awesome, has some very powerful features and remote, and is probably the best bang for the buck in the under 5K range available. Just no muting circuit and some have an occaisional DC pop.

 

[atdamico]

Sometimes it gets hard not to just flame on.

Originally posted by phyre3

I have to admit that people complaining about a whine with no signal present and the volume up seems very trivial.


Who are you to tell people that they are trvial? I guess you are the annointed expert as to what is and what is not real? MY UNIT EMITS A HIGH PIERCED WHINE, CONSTANTLY, WHILE PLAYING MATERIAL. IT CAN BE HEARD 10' AWAY BY ANYONE DURING QUIET SCENES AND PASSAGES IN BOTH MUSIC AND MOVIES. This in NOT trivial to me.


QUOTE]Originally posted by phyre3 I just listened to a high end 2 channel preamp with good signal to noise ratio that has a whine too with the volume not even close to the 00 on the B&K. I'm convinced that the only reason anyone is complaining about it, it is because others have a muting circuit to mask it and the B&K does not


Well I guess if your convinced the rest of us might as well admit we are trivial. After all, the real reason any of us purchased our equipment was to please you. And since your convincecd...


QUOTE]Originally posted by phyre3 . If however the whine is present at normal listening volume with no signal from a distance of more than 2 meters I can understand the complaint but from the B&K's I've heard this is not the case.


Again, if you haven't heard it, I guess it just doesn't exist then. I realize you personally listened to each and every unit that the rest of us are complaining about, so we must all be wrong and you right.


QUOTE]Originally posted by phyre3 ...If something that small is going to bug you stay away from the B&K...


Boy am I embarassed. I thought it was my right to decide for myself what I considered small and otherwise. Now I realize that you have made that decision for me. Its small! Who am I to care that Alison Krauss now has a whine to her voice. You say its normal, so I guess it must be.


Well there it is. My first flame post. Am I proud? No. But insufferable people who put themselves in a position to decide for me what is small and trivial just bug me. They should speak for themselves, and leave the gross generalizations and labeling out of it.


Sorry.