Michael,
Can you post a link to info on the 307. Heard it today, sounded great.
Tim
Can you post a link to info on the 307. Heard it today, sounded great.
Tim
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B&K Reference 30 VS Lexicon MC-1
Dare I even ask the question, but I was wondering does anyone have an opinion based on hearing both of these units. I know the Lexicon is more flexible and has their famous logic 7 processing but the B&K got some good comments from CEDIA. For one not looking for all the ambiance soundfields and just a great sounding (and looking) 7.1 processor that is upgradeable, has component switching as well as all the other traits you would expect from a high end A/V component today, how does the B&K stand up. Just curious.
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Keith L. Michel
"There can be only one"
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Keith L. Michel
"There can be only one"
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1 - 16 of 16 Posts
IMO, the Ref 30 is the best VALUE out there (comparing NIB products).
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"Resistance is FUTILE!" -- The (HOME THEATER) Borg
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"Resistance is FUTILE!" -- The (HOME THEATER) Borg
How much does the Reference 30 sell for? I am in the market for a used Lex, but if the REf 30 can be had for under $2000, I might consider it as well.
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Bob
"Every time I try to make something "idiot proof", along comes a new, improved idiot."
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Bob
"Every time I try to make something "idiot proof", along comes a new, improved idiot."
Our Audio Video Improvement and Special Guest forum, Special Guest, this week is Loren Roetman, Home Entertainment Concepts, Mesa, Az.
Loren recently told me he is carrying the B&K line. So you might want to read up his guest thread and perhaps e-mail him to see what he can do on price. Loren advised me that when the only service is a quick turnkey sale, and the customer doesn't have a local dealer, that he is willing to reasonably discount. But how low, that I don't know. And I'm sure Loren prefers, and so do we, that such discounting be kept private and off this forum. For when dealers like XStick get wind of a specific high discount, they bother the manufacturer to kingdome come!
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Steve Bruzonsky
Loren recently told me he is carrying the B&K line. So you might want to read up his guest thread and perhaps e-mail him to see what he can do on price. Loren advised me that when the only service is a quick turnkey sale, and the customer doesn't have a local dealer, that he is willing to reasonably discount. But how low, that I don't know. And I'm sure Loren prefers, and so do we, that such discounting be kept private and off this forum. For when dealers like XStick get wind of a specific high discount, they bother the manufacturer to kingdome come!
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Steve Bruzonsky
B&K's reputation w/ regards to upgradeability is rather tarnished. Lexicon's is much better wrt to this and customer loyalty (IMO).
Rob
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Migliore Theater
Rob
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Migliore Theater
Rob:
Could you please elaborate on what you mean by B&K's "tarnished" reputation on upgradeability. I just bought an AVR307, and like it very much, but one of the deciding factors was the promise of future upgradeability. What should we know about this????? Thanks. HMA.
Could you please elaborate on what you mean by B&K's "tarnished" reputation on upgradeability. I just bought an AVR307, and like it very much, but one of the deciding factors was the promise of future upgradeability. What should we know about this????? Thanks. HMA.
Better late than never - here is the link to B&K's updated website. They've finally added the Ref 30 and 307. I've also included links to the PDF manuals for the 307 and Ref 30 respectively.
http://www.bkcomp.com/prodshow.html
http://www.bkcomp.com/newpdf/AVR%20307.pdf
http://www.bkcomp.com/newpdf/Reference%2030.pdf
I must admit I'm drooling over the bass management both the Ref 30 and 307 offers. You can dial in the crossover! Check out the owners manual and the bass management section. Very cool.
Tom
[This message has been edited by tommyboy2 (edited 09-20-2000).]
http://www.bkcomp.com/prodshow.html
http://www.bkcomp.com/newpdf/AVR%20307.pdf
http://www.bkcomp.com/newpdf/Reference%2030.pdf
I must admit I'm drooling over the bass management both the Ref 30 and 307 offers. You can dial in the crossover! Check out the owners manual and the bass management section. Very cool.
Tom
[This message has been edited by tommyboy2 (edited 09-20-2000).]
Tom,
You wrote:
"I must admit I'm drooling over the bass management both the Ref 30 and 307 offers. You can dial in the crossover!"
I downloaded the manual. It doesn't say what the increments are that you can set the LFE crossover to. It doesn't say if you can set the crossover for the mains, center, surrounds differently.
Do you know about these aspects of the Ref 30 bass management? I've been waiting for somebody to come out with an affordable Pre/Pro with decent bass management.
You wrote:
"I must admit I'm drooling over the bass management both the Ref 30 and 307 offers. You can dial in the crossover!"
I downloaded the manual. It doesn't say what the increments are that you can set the LFE crossover to. It doesn't say if you can set the crossover for the mains, center, surrounds differently.
Do you know about these aspects of the Ref 30 bass management? I've been waiting for somebody to come out with an affordable Pre/Pro with decent bass management.
I took the excerpt below to mean that I can dial in the crossover point. Its on page 29 of the 307 manual. It certainly is the best bass management I've ever seen at its price point.
Tom
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Crossovers + LFE
Usually these settings may be left set to the factory defaults. However, your receiver allows ‘fine tuning’ of the system parameters most useful in setting up a high end audio system. Set the high and low pass filters’ crossover frequency - This sets the frequency at which bass tones are removed from the small main speakers and sent to the subwoofer. If you use very small main speakers you may wish to raise the crossover above 80 Hz. You may get better results with fairly large speakers by setting them to small and using a low crossover frequency so only the lowest tones are sent to the subwoofer. THX certified speakers are specifically designed for use with an 80 Hz crossover setting.
[This message has been edited by tommyboy2 (edited 09-20-2000).]
Tom
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Crossovers + LFE
Usually these settings may be left set to the factory defaults. However, your receiver allows ‘fine tuning’ of the system parameters most useful in setting up a high end audio system. Set the high and low pass filters’ crossover frequency - This sets the frequency at which bass tones are removed from the small main speakers and sent to the subwoofer. If you use very small main speakers you may wish to raise the crossover above 80 Hz. You may get better results with fairly large speakers by setting them to small and using a low crossover frequency so only the lowest tones are sent to the subwoofer. THX certified speakers are specifically designed for use with an 80 Hz crossover setting.
[This message has been edited by tommyboy2 (edited 09-20-2000).]
B&K has promised reasonable upgrades in the past and failed to deliver.
My previous pre/pro was a B&K AVP1000 (DPL). I paid $800 for the unit (new, at an authorized retailer). I was quoted $900-1200 to have it upgraded to DD, not including DTS!
I think the point is, sure you can upgrade it, but you may not want to.
I've heard of many others being unsatisfied w/ their upgrades, but I don't know their specific gripes.
Rob
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Migliore Theater
My previous pre/pro was a B&K AVP1000 (DPL). I paid $800 for the unit (new, at an authorized retailer). I was quoted $900-1200 to have it upgraded to DD, not including DTS!
I think the point is, sure you can upgrade it, but you may not want to.
I've heard of many others being unsatisfied w/ their upgrades, but I don't know their specific gripes.
Rob
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Migliore Theater
Rob, good points. But it sounds like your quoted upgrades were hardware based upgrades, correct? Still, $900 for a DD upgrade seems obscene to say the least!
Nonetheless, many of these manufacturers are moving to software based upgrades or are at least promising the capability. What remains to be seen is how, when and if they can actually fit the code into the memory at a system board level. Based on what I saw at CEDIA, B&K is well ahead of the pack as they do have a delivery system completed. The software (I forgot what they called it) permitted very granular control over the Ref 30 and 307 and allowed firmware updates. The tool is only available to dealers/installers, but it does exist.
So, I share your skeptism. But if anyone is poised to actually fulfill the promise of upgradeability it sure seems to be B&K at this moment. Lets hope for the best.
Tom
Nonetheless, many of these manufacturers are moving to software based upgrades or are at least promising the capability. What remains to be seen is how, when and if they can actually fit the code into the memory at a system board level. Based on what I saw at CEDIA, B&K is well ahead of the pack as they do have a delivery system completed. The software (I forgot what they called it) permitted very granular control over the Ref 30 and 307 and allowed firmware updates. The tool is only available to dealers/installers, but it does exist.
So, I share your skeptism. But if anyone is poised to actually fulfill the promise of upgradeability it sure seems to be B&K at this moment. Lets hope for the best.
Tom
With the Ref 30, or for that matter any other pre/pro, does bass management occur ONLY in the left and right MAINS? That is, does any of the low frequency material of the front center, surrounds, and rears, get shuttled to the subwoofer, or does the bass management feature ONLY work on the mains? Also, in a related question, if I tell my 6.1 or 7.1 system pre/pro that I do not have a subwoofer, will the LFE channel be shuttled ONLY to the left and right MAINS, or will the LFE channel be distributed to ALL the speakers? The reason I ask this is because it would probably be a lot easier and effective to manage bass through an external stereo 2 way or 3 way electronic crossover, as these units usually have total control of frequency, crossover slope, and gain for each channel, thus making just about any companies' bass management features seem quite prehistoric in comparison. If more than just the left and right mains come into the picture, then the scenario I have presented goes right out the window. What do you guys think?
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Bob
"Every time I try to make something "idiot proof", along comes a new, improved idiot."
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Bob
"Every time I try to make something "idiot proof", along comes a new, improved idiot."
Bob, double check the downloadable manual. But I'm certain they give you variable crossover on ALL channels.
Tom
Tom
OK, it kind of works on all channels. After re-reading the manual it seems the crossover can be set for all speakers set to small. However, the crossover point is the same for each channel set to small.
Tom
Tom
Thanks Jeff!
It still sounds a lot better than just a fixed 80Hz crossover to me!
I just found your more detailed explanation above. I'm getting very excited about the 30/307. The more I read the more I'm tempted.
Tom
[This message has been edited by tommyboy2 (edited 09-21-2000).]
It still sounds a lot better than just a fixed 80Hz crossover to me!
I just found your more detailed explanation above. I'm getting very excited about the 30/307. The more I read the more I'm tempted.
Tom
[This message has been edited by tommyboy2 (edited 09-21-2000).]
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