[eieio]

i'm a HT newbie and am in the process of setting up a new, separate HT sound system in the same living room but a separate system from my existing 2 channel stereo (existing system has tube pre-amp, bi-power amp, somewhat bulky speakers, etc.). my new tv is the 60xbr800, and due to the existing 2 channel speakers, i do not wish that the new HT sound system's speakers be overly bulky: 6 speakers (incl subwoofer) plus my existing 2 speakers is a bit much for any living room. i intend to only use this new system for tv and radio listening only, since i have my existing 2 channel stereo for all CD listening.


my initial thoughts are: a simple, high quality, run of the mill receiver like the denon 3803, no nonsense, does the trick. speakers may be either B&W, PSB, NHT, or Paradigm, with either their own subwoofer, or, an SVS, Hsu, or Velodyne.


B&W would likely be: 601S3 for front L and R, LCR 60S3 (the 600S3 is too high for the silly Sony stand for my 60xbr800, which only allows 7 1/4 inches of height) for the front center, and the 600S3 for the rear L and R. i was informed that the front center does 70% of the "work" in any home theater application, and that i should consider the LCR 600S3. is there much truth in that? wouldn't the LCR 60S3, while smaller, be more than adequate? while i'm a fussy good sound lover, i've never owned a tv sound system so anything would be fantastic compared with the tv's own speakers, but then again, this upgrade should be satisfying, and not a regret after a few weeks due to my sensitivity to good sound.


i was told that if you selected the "small speaker" mode in these receivers, the speakers have a 80 HZ cut off. so i was thinking, why do i even need a pair of 601S3 for the front? maybe the 600S3 would do! the differences between small, bookshelf-type monitor speakers are usually 5-10 extra hertz at the bottom, and in this application, anything under 80 HZ would be cut off. also, i'm concerned about the MATCHING of subwoofers that are not made by the same speaker company, i.e. using an SVS sub or Hsu or Velodyne Sub instead of B&W's own sub. how do you set the sub up if the receiver cuts all frequencies below 80 HZ off?


i do NOT intend to buy DVDs (rent only), and i do NOT intend to have more than the 6 new speakers in my living room (5 speakers plus the sub) since my living room already has my main stereo in it. any more than this would be totally ridiculous.


i was thinking that the 600S3 would be fine as front L and R (since above 65 Hz, they "SHOULD" sound identical to the 601S3, right? or wrong?), the LCR 60S3 (because the 600S3 won't fit in terms of height. is that a big mistake or is the 60S3 sufficiently good?), and 600S3 for rear L and R. what do you guys think?


in terms of a good receiver, do you guys think that the Denon 3803 is good? or should i go Onkyo, Yamaha, or Rotel? or other brands like sony ES, Pioneer, etc? again, i'm coming from a 2 channel audiophile background so i'm really not too familiar with HT equipment, though i can learn...


my direct email is: [email protected]


any assistance would be much appreciated.

 

[HTUser5]

Can you buy speakers to match your stereo speakers for HT? That would be the best way to go. Or get rid of those and get two full range speakers that can serve as HT Front speakers as well and match the rest. That way you can have less number of speakers in your living room.


Since you are only considering the 600 and 601 speakers I think the LCR 60 S3 will do fine. The LCR 600 would match the 603 S3 and the 604 S3.


As far as the speakers go you might be better off with 601 S3 fronts amd 600 S3 rears. I think that both will work fine with a good subwoofer and an 80Hz LF cutoff.

 

[eieio]

HTUser5: may i ask why i even need the 601S3 for my fronts if i were to have a good B&W or SVS or Hsu or Velodyne subwoofer? maybe the 600S3 would be identical since i would either cut them off at 80 or 65Hz, depending on whether i select the small or large speaker setting on my HT receiver.


i'm a HT newbie, so forgive me for simple questions. but it certainly seems to me, that the 600S3 and the 601S3 would both perform identically above about 65Hz!


am i right? wrong?


thanks.


receivers: should i go for the denon 3803? rotel? yamaha? integra? onkyo?

 

[HTUser5]

I did not say you need 601 fronts just that you might be better off with them. Its just personal preference. I did say that the 600s will do just fine. I prefer to have atleast the FR and FL speakers to be full range or as full range as possible.


You realize that a perfect setup would have all speakers producing all the frequencies. Despite what


Also other subs are prefered over the B&W Subs at that price point. I had the Rotel RSX 1065 and it sounded pretty good. I think the RSX 1055 is a good receiver and combines well with the B&Ws however it needs two additional channels of amplification to complete the 7.1 setup. Check out the 3803 and the HK-525 before you make a purchase. I do not know about the Yamaha, Integra or the Onkyo.


Good Luck!!

 

[eieio]

not to be difficult, but the essense of my question was: what would be the difference between using the 600S3 vs the 601S3 if i had a very good B&W/SVS/Hsu/Velodyne subwoofer? this is because the receiver would cut off all frequencies below 80Hz or 65Hz going to the front L and R anyway.


does my train of thought make sense?

 

[craigdcan]

IMO, the 601's are superior to the 600's, not only for their wider frequency range, but also for their overall sound. I think far too many people look at frequency range as the be-all end-all. Trust your ears, not specs. If you don't hear a difference, there is no difference.

 

[rvolkman]

eieio,


I use 4 601S2's for L, R, LS, and RS, with a CC6S2 (now the LCR60) in the center. I also use 2 600S3's for back surrounds in a 7.1 setup. When I got the 2 600S3s recently, I thought that I might have used them all around if they had been available in the Series 2 line when I first got them a couple of years ago.


But I tried one of the 600s as a center with my 601s and the blend across the front was just not as good as with the CC6 (LCR60). The 600 had just enough of a "boxy" sound that I was always aware of it. With the 601/CC6 combination, the blend across the front was always seamless, with sound never coming "from" a particular speaker. However, as surrounds, the 600s seem to blend perfectly in my setup.


I've always heard it said that speakers should have fairly flat response to an octave below the cutoff, or 40hz in the case of an 80hz cutoff. At the 80hz cutoff, the speakers will be 3db down, roling off to about -15db at 40hz. If the speakers start their own rolloff at 75hz, the two will combine, and the mix between small speakers and sub may be weak in the middle of the bass range. This is probably more important across the front, where the main "wall of sound" is created. The 601s come closer to reaching 40hz than the 600s, without adding too much more size.


But, listen to a similar setup and decide with your ears if you can. I agree that its very attractive to use those little 600s all around for the small size. If you like the sound and the blend with the sub, go for it.


Ron

 

[eieio]

it makes a lot of sense - what you guys have said collectively. i have an older pair (3-4 yrs old) of 601 (non S3, non S2) in a bedroom system that i rarely use. i'll use those for my rear L and R.


my fronts will be 601S3, and, unfortunately, my center will have to be LCR 60S3 (i have only 7 1/4" H clearance in my Sony GW1 stand for the 60XBR800), since the 600S3 won't fit. everyone seems to say that the center channel does 70% or so of the work, so i was thinking that ideally, i should have the LCR 600S3, but it is so unsightly and fussy to have a center channel stand in front of the 60XBR800 and all the various components under it in the stand.


now, the issue is which subwoofer? i was thinking that one of the 3 B&W subs would be a no-brainer. but then again, people here talk about the SVS, Hsu, and i've always know Velodynes. Ugh. all you B&W owners out there, how much do you guys know about the SVS/Hsu/Velodynes? also how much do you guys know about the B&W subs? do you get more value with those other subs or has B&W achieved such economies of scale due to their size and large product line that you really get value from their subs as well?


also, the issue of receivers: i was thinking of the denon 3803, or rotel. i don't intend on getting more speakers, so i guess i'm more of a 5.1 type of person. since rental dvds are all basic 5.1, is it smarter to buy "more" of a receiver than necessary so i can simply add speakers in the future if i need them? i have a feeling that with formats changing so fast, by the time i feel i need more speakers, i'm ready to change receivers also. there is the mental comfort factor of getting a better receiver with more features than i need "just in case". any places that sell the denon or rotels discounted? i'm in manhattan.


Thanks!

 

[craigdcan]

Well there certainly isn't anything wrong with B&W subs, but I feel that there are better subs for the money. Hsu, SVS, are the most common mentions, but I also think that Def Tech has tremendous bang-for-the-buck as well. The PF15TL is a wicked sub. I'm actually quite surprised that it isn't mentioned as an excellent deal more often.

 

[Josh P]

I see what you mean with regards to the frequency cutoff difference btwn the 600 and 601 but as some have mentioned it's more than just the frequency but some do produce tonal differences across the freq range.


With subs really try to have a listen as it isn't easy to integrate the subs with speakers, esp in your room and in this regard the B&W subs may be better. (although subs of one company don't alway s blend with their speakers.)


Why can't you integrate your 2ch setup with your ht, i'm sure if you've got a quality setup this will beat the 601's?


The 60 centre will blend well with the 601 but i did find it a bit weak (ive got 602 and 600 centre). I know people say that the centre does most of the work and with 5.1 sound this is true, however, as you know with a good 2ch setup with a decent soundstage, if the processor/reciever is up to the encoding a centre channel isn't even needed. (plus this will provide a better integrated front wall)


Cheers Josh

 

[eieio]

hi josh P,


my main system is sonic frontiers preamp, genesis V speakers, with the genesis amp for the V speakers, the Mark Levenson 323 amp for the midrange and tweeters, the Sonic Frontiers CD 1 for the CD single box player.


since the sonic frontiers preamp is tube-based, i thought that it would be a bad idea to have that "burning" while i have CNN or something similar on the new Sony 60XBR800 tv. i thought it might make better sense to have the new tv on with an all solid state system so it wouldn't shorten the lives of other compenents.


what are you ideas, please?