AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 65 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
189 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have B&W CDM series speakers on a Home Theatre setup. Now I'm setting up another location. I'm inclined to go with the B&W's again, but so many people here have been raving about the Rocket by Onix. I know that speaker sound is in the ear of the beholder, but has anyone done a comparison of these for Home Theatre?


Dennis
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
I am going through the same thing but thinking about the ref series instead. I've talked to Mark @ av123 and told him that I am really biased to the Nautilus sound. He told me that the reference series would be perfect.


I have to admit that it's still a little hard for me to pull the trigger because of the sound unheard aspect of things. Good luck with your decision, sorry couldn't help much.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,466 Posts
stom_m3,


i compared the ref 1s to the sig 805s and nautilus 805s...in the end, i kept the ref 1s. they sounded better to my ears in every respect w/ the gear i auditioned them all on. haven't regretted the decision one bit. the ref 1s are still one of the best monitors i've heard, and i've heard alot. in fact they stack up very well to many floorstanders as well.


why not order up a pair of ref 1s and compare them to the B&Ws yourself? u'd only be out of $40 shipping if you had to send them back...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,466 Posts
DennisR,


it depends on what kind of sound you like. they are very different sounding speakers. the rockets are very warm and lush in comparison to the B&Ws. to my ears, the B&Ws (all of them) sound thin in the bass and mid regions. the highs are a bit tinny and bright like most metal dome tweeters are to my ears. i'd recommend that you try to find someone in your area to audition the rockets...try the forum on www.********** or www.audioenvy.com


that would be the only way to be certain. btw, before i auditioned lots of other speakers, i thought B&W sounded fantastic...then i heard Vienna Acoustics, Sonus Faber, Thiel, Vandersteen, Dynaudio and many, many more brands of speakers...realized there are so many other speakers that i preferred over B&W...but this is just my opinion. if you've already listened or owned lots of other speakers and still prefer B&W, then looks like you've found your brand of speaker...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,151 Posts
I have spent alot of listening time awhile back. I'd say do the same thing but spend the money to order a set of Rockets or Refs from AV123. You will be in for a surprise and I will bet you money you will not be sending them back. Plus their customer service is way above the best you will ever find. Makes for a lot of peace of mind. Email Mark over at ********** with your questions. He is very knowledgable about many different brands of speakrs and he is not affraid to tell you about each and if he thinks your listening preferences will be better served by another brand he will tell you that up front. He is a decent honest guy who just loves to help people. I just think the speaker business is something for him to do. He is very much one of the most honest folks I have ever met. Actually have never met in person just on the phone and emails over the last year. He went way above the call of duty for me and I will be a life long buyer of Onix products.

Mike Lindsey
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Hi Mad Dog,


Thanks for the response. I've never heard the Sig 805's, but I love the N805's and N803 (the rest are too pricey). I don't suppose you have a picture of the on and off axis response curves for the ref 1's or 2's? It would be interesting to see where the emphasis was put in regards to mid and upper range.


There are 2 stores down here that carry B&W, I am sure it would be wise to take your advice and A/B demo the two.


Dennis - I don't want to hi-jack the thread so let me know if the ref's don't interest you and I can start a different thread.


steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,241 Posts
Dennis - IMO asking for a unbiased comparison between B&W and Rocket speakers on THIS forum is practically impossible. For the record I have never listened to Rocket speakers, however, from all the positive reviews I would assume they are quality products and backed up by a very reputable company. But - the same chorus of enthusiastic posters will come on every Rocket thread and sing their praises. Just remember that this well intended but internet giddy group only represents a very, very small percentage of the total speaker buying population.


Since you already own B&W speakers I would find it most interesting to hear back from you should you ever order a set of Rockets to demo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,466 Posts
stom_m3,


you're more than welcome to swing by my place if you're in the area and would like to audition the Ref 1s. you can bring your speakers along to compare as well. if you've got some b&w's to bring along, that'd be even better since you'd have an opportunity to hear them for yourself in the same room, with the same equipment.


otherwise, order some Ref 1s up and take them down to your local dealer. or see if your local dealer will loan you a pair of demos to compare at home w/ your equipment...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,466 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by stom_m3
I've never heard the Sig 805's, but I love the N805's and N803 (the rest are too pricey). I don't suppose you have a picture of the on and off axis response curves for the ref 1's or 2's? It would be interesting to see where the emphasis was put in regards to mid and upper range.
the Sig 805s are clearly at another level compared to the N805s IMHO. no comparison when i auditioned them...smoother highs, more refined mids, and tighter bass...the Ref1s w/ the same equipment in the same room, sounded smoother, more refined and had even tighter bass and quite a bit more extension than the Sig 805s.


sorry but i don't have response curves for the ref1s...maybe check w/ mark or the rest of the av123 guys.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,049 Posts
The previous warning is not without merit. Similar warnings have come up from time to time here, as no one wants to see anyone fall for some Bose or White Van-type BS act. The Rockets are quite good in build and character, they're priced at an entry level, so as a result there are some VERY enthusiastic testimonials floating around from folks with little audio experience. I hate to see the downright squelching of those who are new to the hobby, but I do see the points of those who've been offended. Given a different product with which I'm not familiar, I'd probably think of responding in a similar fashion. I will give you the benefit of the doubt however, and entrust you to pick the wheat from the chaff.


I have not A/B'ed my Rockets with the CDM line, but I did spend some time checking out a pair of CDM 9NT's earlier this month.


The CDM 9NT's are a class act, no doubt about it. What they share with the Rocket 750's is a very good ability to convey tactile dynamics, and mid-bass slam to a slightly lesser extent given the lesser woofer area. That's a good thing by my standards. The upper-midrange is a bit more forward and the treble more detailed, and what's better will be your preference. Warmer speakers are enjoyable for their ability to play at higher SPL's before hitting my fatigue point, and for their forgiving nature with older CD's and bright high-rez recordings. OTOH a bit more zip can be nice on certain material, and some will prefer it overall. I found the soundstage width and overall imaging qualities to be similar enough to require a rapid A/B session to distinguish, and that opportunity has not presented itself.


The cabinet quality is outstanding on both counts. 3/4" MDF with outstanding wood veneer treatment and proper internal baffles, however the B&W's have an edge for their build at the top of the cabinets. The gloss black endcaps on the Rockets look very nice, but they don't appear quite as expensive or difficult to pull off as the tops of the CDM's or especially the Nautilus 803's. When you look at either up close and personal, you get a very good feeling of quality and detail.



I didn't get to open the CDM's to see the the crossovers, cabinet internals, and drivers, but of course they're going to be quite a bit better than those of the B&W 600 S2 Series which I found not to compare all that well. My guess is that the engineering and internals of the CDM's are at least as savvy as Dick Pierce's Rocket designs, but one is likely to find fewer yet more expensive caps and resistors in the CDM's. The 750's use a Zobel network for each crossover leg to flatten impedance and a cascading woofer network, so they're large and complex. He did keep the "good stuff" ie. metal film resistors etc. in the direct signal path.


Try www.audioenvy.com to see if there's a Rocket owner near you who can give you a demo. Talk is cheap, check 'em out if you can.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,466 Posts
good post, bigwally...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
Actually, this weekend I listened to some B&W CDMs, Rockets, and Paradigms. Since you like the B&Ws, I would not suggest the Rockets. The Rockets just have a completely different sound. They lack the high end that the B&Ws have, and definitely have a lot of warmth to their sound. I found the Rockets to be amazing speakers, however they were not revealing enough to me. I don't like a ton of treble either such that my ears are bleeding, which is why I went middle of the road with some Paradigms. That said, if you like B&W, I'd suggest sticking with B&W. I haven't heard the Onix Refs, but I hear that they are brighter than the Rockets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,049 Posts
The treble has been stepped up a bit for the 750's that are currently being delivered, as of a week or two ago. I think that will please many folks who like a little more detail.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
I do like the B&W's but like everything else there's price points. The ref's are at that price point that makes me give it serious thought. For a B&W N803, N805 and HTM1 is $9000. For the ref 2's, 1's and 100 is $3960. That's less than half the price for an equivalent setup which goes a long way to get the pre/pro and amp. In the end, I need to do the homework and listen to everything I feel is in the ball park and make an informed decision. I just like to do a little heads up work and get other people's opinion. I personally like finding out what other people have to say about particular speakers and sonic signatures of each. Without the comparisons there wouldn't be much to write on the forum.


So another question; what about the inside of the ref's or rockets. How's the construction compared to others?


Mad Dog - Thanks for the listening offer. I might take you up on that if you don't mind. I don't have Nautilus to bring but I still wouldn't mind listening to both rockets and refs. I could bring my 602s2's but I don't think it would be a fair comparison to the ref's.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,241 Posts
stom - Get back to this planet. I don't think you're doing a fair price comparison. You could get B&W N804s, HTM1 and N805s for under $7500 or CDM 9NTs, CNT and 1NT for under $4400. Both of these configurations would be a much better match to the Ref 2/1/100 combo which is $4950 before applicable discounts.


Please realize that if you go into a B&W store looking for speakers you will probably see discounts in the 10 to 15% range (or better depending on your negotiation skills) for this size deal.


So the prices are very comparable.:cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,466 Posts
stom,


come on over and we can bring my Ref 1s into the local B&W dealer for you to a/b...i've got one about 15 minutes from where i live. then you can hear if the Refs can hold a candle to the N805s and Sig 805s. if you decide after hearing them that you prefer the Ref 1s like I did, then the decision is easy...between the Ref 1s and the N805s, the decision was clear to mine and my wife's ears. since we didn't prefer the N805s or even the higher end Sig 805s, we didn't bother going any further down the B&W line to listen.


you're definitely welcome to shoot up to my place for a listen...bring ur 602S2s along for comparison as well...it'll be fun! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
787 Posts
I was down to the same decision between the onix ref1 and the cdm 9nt.

I auditioned the two, not side by side, but each during the same day with my own material.


U really cant go wrong with either one. To me the b&w sounded a bit more balanced, if that makes sense. The ref1 is def very revealing, if you like detail in your music, run out and get em. Also keep in mind that the cdm line will be dropped soon for the 700 series. So the cdm series should be pretty heavily discounted, both at the retail level as well as at audiogon. Even before the new replacements were announced, i was able to get the 9nt for just a little bit more than the ref1 on audiogon.


The Ref1 is outstanding. I know most ppl defend their decisions, but i for one question my 9nt choice everyday. I love my b&ws, but the build quality, detail and musicality of the ref1 haunts me, every now and then....


K
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,466 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by kyungkim
I was down to the same decision between the onix ref1 and the cdm 9nt.

I auditioned the two, not side by side, but each during the same day with my own material.
was this done in the same room using the same gear?

Quote:
...The ref1 is def very revealing, if you like detail in your music, run out and get em....
i have heard my own Ref1s sound harsh and bright in a few other people's rooms. both pretty reflective rooms that needed a bit of tweaking in placement to get the Refs to sound just right. i have also heard my Ref 1s to sound harsh using lower end gear. i've had bioforce and shokunin at my place listening to the Refs and be amazed at how smooth yet detailed they sounded...my point is that rooms and gear will play a significant roll in how a speaker sounds.

Quote:
The Ref1 is outstanding. I know most ppl defend their decisions, but i for one question my 9nt choice everyday. I love my b&ws, but the build quality, detail and musicality of the ref1 haunts me, every now and then....
don't regret your purchase...just enjoy them...the one great thing about B&Ws is that they hold their resale value amazingly well so when you decide to move on, you can get most of your money back. i found after comparing my Refs to too many different speakers that mine aren't going anywhere anytime soon so i'm not too concerned about resale on my Refs. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Hi Mad Dog - Thanks for the offer. I will pm you and we can find an appropriate weekend to do this.


Also have you ever taken a peek inside the speakers? How's the bracing and quality of the interior?
 
1 - 20 of 65 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top