I just got rid of my B&W asw 2000 and bought a Velodyne HGS-12 and there is a difference. I sold the B&W because it was overkill. It was too big for my application and my apartment is relatively small. At minimum settings the B&W still rocked the house. There is no question that the B&W is much more powerful. I cannot explain why the B&W was so much more powerful.. they both have 10" drivers and the B&W had a 175 watt amp compared to the Velodynes 1250 watt amp. It may be the size of the cabinet but, all I can tell you is that the Velodyne has to be cranked up significantly higher to achieve the same results. For me, the Velodyne works just as well and is 1/2 the size (and 2 times the price). I could care less if I have to turn the volume up 50% higher to get the same results, the bottom line is that I get basically the same results. I won't lie, I do miss the B&W for sheer slam factor, but, this is more appropriate for my application.
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B&W or Velodyne sub?
Hello again, people,
Anyone who has read this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000937.html
knows what kind of speakers I will be buying, as well as the direction I am going with my electronics, so now I am wondering what kind of sub would match up nicely with this system. I am still considering building a Shiva based sub, but I don't know if it is worth all the trouble to build a sub and then buy a separate amp to power it when a powered sub can be had for about the same money. I have access to both Velodyne and B&W subs, so I also would like to get feedback as to which models would be appropriate for the B&W Nautilus 805 based system that I will be buying soon. BTW, my home theater is in my basement, a room about 15X22, with a dropped acoustical ceiling around 7' high, with a thick rug, so the room is fairly dead sounding. I listened to a pair of 805's with an ASW 1000 sub, in a smaller room than mine, and it sounded pretty darn good, but I can't find a place locally to listen to the same 805's paired with a Velodyne sub. Anyone who has compared the two lines and/or has experience with either, please let me know what you think. Also, anyone who has built a Shiva and compared it to these two lines, please let me know how the Shiva stacked up.
Thanks again,
Bob
Anyone who has read this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000937.html
knows what kind of speakers I will be buying, as well as the direction I am going with my electronics, so now I am wondering what kind of sub would match up nicely with this system. I am still considering building a Shiva based sub, but I don't know if it is worth all the trouble to build a sub and then buy a separate amp to power it when a powered sub can be had for about the same money. I have access to both Velodyne and B&W subs, so I also would like to get feedback as to which models would be appropriate for the B&W Nautilus 805 based system that I will be buying soon. BTW, my home theater is in my basement, a room about 15X22, with a dropped acoustical ceiling around 7' high, with a thick rug, so the room is fairly dead sounding. I listened to a pair of 805's with an ASW 1000 sub, in a smaller room than mine, and it sounded pretty darn good, but I can't find a place locally to listen to the same 805's paired with a Velodyne sub. Anyone who has compared the two lines and/or has experience with either, please let me know what you think. Also, anyone who has built a Shiva and compared it to these two lines, please let me know how the Shiva stacked up.
Thanks again,
Bob
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One more thing..I have a suggestion. For your system I would not reccomend the ASW 1000, it is just too small and doesn't have the ability to really move enough air in your room. However, B&W just came out with a new sub, the ASW 2500 that has much more power and is the same size as the Velodyne and costs less. It would compliment your B&W speakers and was probably designed specifically for the Nautilus series. Now that I think of it, that would definately be the way I would go. The other ASW subs are all going to be discontinued soon, or so I've heard. This ASW 2500 was just released so hold tight, you may be able to get your hands on it in a week or so.
The matching B&W sub for the Nautilus line is the the ASW4000 (it has the N801 driver and is made of the same wood as the Nautilus).
I have it in combination with N805's in a room comparable to yours (20x14x8). Warning: since I have the ASW4000, it became absolutely obvious that I had to treat the acoustic of my room: small rooms like ours are prone to problems (standing waves) that the ASW4000 reveals very easily (and it does). At the moment, I must admit that the sound I am getting is far from ideal but I am still confident that I'll manage to solve most of the problems with room treatment. I should soon know as I recently ordered room treatment from ASC Tubetraps and I should receive it next week.
Michel
I have it in combination with N805's in a room comparable to yours (20x14x8). Warning: since I have the ASW4000, it became absolutely obvious that I had to treat the acoustic of my room: small rooms like ours are prone to problems (standing waves) that the ASW4000 reveals very easily (and it does). At the moment, I must admit that the sound I am getting is far from ideal but I am still confident that I'll manage to solve most of the problems with room treatment. I should soon know as I recently ordered room treatment from ASC Tubetraps and I should receive it next week.
Michel
I have the ASW 4000/N802's in our large family room HT set-up, and I can attest to this being one awesome sub. It is equally at ease with CD's and HT, and is lightening fast, very detailed for a sub, and if you don't believe, put on the new release of Twister in DTS !! You will be running for the storm cellar !!
-rick
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-rick
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Well I guess everyone prefers the B&W subs over the Velodyne entries, but no one here has mentioned any comparisons with a DIY Shiva sub. Has anyone built a Shiva and how does it fare against the B&W's?
Hi Chuck,
I did not use any specific equipment to identify problems in my room, only my ears... I started without the SUB: 4x N805 and 1xHTM2. First obvious problem: I had a lot (I mean a LOT) of echo (not surprising, the walls of my room are in heavy concrete and almost no furnitures). I then added the ASW4000 and a new problem appeared: when playing music with heavy bass, the sound is terrible at the listening position (it seems that only some frequencies are affected: some kind of continous low frequency sound seems to be added or reinforced) . I think this is due to standing waves because if I move my listing position (3" forward in enough) then this disturbing sound disappears at the sound very good (extremely sharp). Unfortunately, I cannot really move my listing position which is also more or less imposed by the viewing distance to my RPTV (if I move 3" forward, the sound is very good but I am then too close to the RPTV).
I then decided to submit drawings and description of my room to ASC (and others as well) and they offered a solution based on their products (I also specified my budget). I'll soon receive different ASC products: bass traps (16" super trap), sound panels (to kill flutter echo), studio traps (first reflection points) and a few other tubes (3x9" half round and 2x11" to have a complete treatment including diffusion on rear wall).
The room modes (responsible for standing waves in a room) are due to room size (nothing else). Check the following web site: http://www.best.com/~eriko/www/bass/room_modes.html they offer an easy tool to compute room modes. Also check the "Master Handbook of Acoustics, 3rd edition" written by Alton Everest (publish by Mc Graw Hill) for an excellent description of room acoustics and it explains how room modes/standing waves can be responsible of sound coloration.
Hope this helps.
Michel
I did not use any specific equipment to identify problems in my room, only my ears... I started without the SUB: 4x N805 and 1xHTM2. First obvious problem: I had a lot (I mean a LOT) of echo (not surprising, the walls of my room are in heavy concrete and almost no furnitures). I then added the ASW4000 and a new problem appeared: when playing music with heavy bass, the sound is terrible at the listening position (it seems that only some frequencies are affected: some kind of continous low frequency sound seems to be added or reinforced) . I think this is due to standing waves because if I move my listing position (3" forward in enough) then this disturbing sound disappears at the sound very good (extremely sharp). Unfortunately, I cannot really move my listing position which is also more or less imposed by the viewing distance to my RPTV (if I move 3" forward, the sound is very good but I am then too close to the RPTV).
I then decided to submit drawings and description of my room to ASC (and others as well) and they offered a solution based on their products (I also specified my budget). I'll soon receive different ASC products: bass traps (16" super trap), sound panels (to kill flutter echo), studio traps (first reflection points) and a few other tubes (3x9" half round and 2x11" to have a complete treatment including diffusion on rear wall).
The room modes (responsible for standing waves in a room) are due to room size (nothing else). Check the following web site: http://www.best.com/~eriko/www/bass/room_modes.html they offer an easy tool to compute room modes. Also check the "Master Handbook of Acoustics, 3rd edition" written by Alton Everest (publish by Mc Graw Hill) for an excellent description of room acoustics and it explains how room modes/standing waves can be responsible of sound coloration.
Hope this helps.
Michel
Michael:
I went to the site. According to the calcs I should have modes at 20.17, 40.35 and 60.53.
Would you mind sharing your placement and what this cost.
I sent my room dimensions to a compnay a little while back and their solution was tons of their product at about $15K. Made be suspicious.
Chuck
I went to the site. According to the calcs I should have modes at 20.17, 40.35 and 60.53.
Would you mind sharing your placement and what this cost.
I sent my room dimensions to a compnay a little while back and their solution was tons of their product at about $15K. Made be suspicious.
Chuck
In fact my room is a bit smaller than what I wrote: 19x14x7.5 and lowest room mode is (1,0,0)=29.736842hz, it means that I should have some absorbsion down to +-30hz in the room (the ASC 16" super is supposed to absorb down to 35hz, that should be ok).
The cost of the equipment I bought is USD 2700 + shipping + import tax (I am living in europe and I'll have to pay import tax (16%) to the custom).
I am quite sure that more expensive solution built on ASC products could have been found but they also asked me my budget before offering a solution.
FYI: I also asked Auralex, Echobusters and RPG. RPG was much more expensive (too expensive for my budget), Auralex and Echobusters were cheaper but at the end I prefered the ASC solution (for various reasons).
Michel
The cost of the equipment I bought is USD 2700 + shipping + import tax (I am living in europe and I'll have to pay import tax (16%) to the custom).
I am quite sure that more expensive solution built on ASC products could have been found but they also asked me my budget before offering a solution.
FYI: I also asked Auralex, Echobusters and RPG. RPG was much more expensive (too expensive for my budget), Auralex and Echobusters were cheaper but at the end I prefered the ASC solution (for various reasons).
Michel
>>>Well I guess everyone prefers the B&W subs over the Velodyne entries,<<
Both companies market good products. The big VELS will extend deeper and play cleaner than the BWs...but the HGS18 is 3k too.
>>> but no one here has mentioned any comparisons with a DIY Shiva sub. Has anyone built a Shiva and how does it fare against the B&W's?<<<
Assuming you could use a large enclosure...you could build a DIY subwoofer that would offer the performance of multiple(2-4) ASW4000s or HGS18s for a fraction of the cost.
What are your performance expectations---do you want reference bass capabilities?(do you listen to film at reference level occasionally)
TV
>>>Well I guess everyone prefers the B&W subs over the Velodyne entries,<<
Both companies market good products. The big VELS will extend deeper and play cleaner than the BWs...but the HGS18 is 3k too.
>>> but no one here has mentioned any comparisons with a DIY Shiva sub. Has anyone built a Shiva and how does it fare against the B&W's?<<<
Assuming you could use a large enclosure...you could build a DIY subwoofer that would offer the performance of multiple(2-4) ASW4000s or HGS18s for a fraction of the cost.
What are your performance expectations---do you want reference bass capabilities?(do you listen to film at reference level occasionally)
TV
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