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JVC RS4500 | ST130 G4 135" | MRX 720 | MC303 MC152 | B&W 802D3, HTM1D3, 805D3, 702S2 | 4x15 IB Subs
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I'm considering purchasing a set of 804 D3s for use as front Left/Right channels to replace my current CM8s.
I am somewhat still considering just stepping down to the 702 S2 instead though (sounded very good as well to my ears)

I'm struggling with what to do about a center channel though. Whatever I do should at least be a significant upgrade from my CM Centre...
I wish I could make an HTM2 D3 work, but it is significantly taller than what I can fit on in my Salamander media cabinet at 12" tall.
The HTM71 S2 Centre Speaker at 8.6" tall would easily fit in the 9" opening of my media cabinet, but I'm worried that it won't keep up with the 804 D3s or even the 702 S2s.

Possibly a very bad idea, but has anyone ever used a single 705 S2 bookshelf laid sideways as a center channel speaker (805 D3 is still too wide at 9.3")? It seems like the tweeter on the 705 S2 would at least be a better match to the 804 D3, but I feel like I must be missing something.

Thoughts?

My current 7.2.4 setup is:

B&W CM8 - Front
B&W CM Centre - Center
B&W FPM6 - Side Surround
B&W FPM2 - Back Surround
B&W CCM683 - Front & Rear Ceiling
SVS SB16 Ultra - Dual Subwoofers
Marantz AV7703 - Pre/pro
NAD C 658 - Preamp
Emotiva XPA-9 G3 - Front (bi-amp), Center, Side & Back Surround
Emotiva A-500 - Front & Rear Ceiling
I *far* prefer the 702S2 to the 804D3. The 804D3 do have better imaging, but the 702S2 have a much better midbass sound and are not nearly as bright. With your emotiva gear, the 804D3's will probably make your ears bleed. The combo will be very bright.

I'd strongly suggest doing whatever you can to get into the HTM1D3 or HTM2D3 center regardless what you have to do to mangle your entertainment center to get there. There's an absolutely humongous difference between the HTM2D3 and the HTM71. In fact, my first suggestion to you is to spend all your upgrade money on an HTM1D3 keeping all your other existing speakers and only if you can afford the upgrade after that then go for the 702S2's. I'd then do whatever it took to make that work in your entertainment center along with options of replacing or getting rid of it entirely. A single HTM1D3 would be such a huge upgrade for you that after that upgrading the other speakers would seem like a much smaller upgrade - for movies. For music I can see another discussion.

A single 705S2 as a center is not a good option. I've also tried 2 706S2's together with the tweeters closest together in an Woofer-Tweeter-Tweeter-Woofer configuration and it was not very impressive.
 

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Sorry for the delayed response, was on vacation in the Florida Keys!

Yes, I installed them myself, it was a drywalled ceiling in my basement. Installing in-ceiling speakers is easy if you have no obstructions!

First thing you should do is determine the size of the hole needed for the speakers, mine was 8". I cut 8" circles from paper/cardboard and I taped them to the ceiling using painters tape.

Next, I used a stud finder to see if there were any studs within the area that I needed to cut out. You can also knock on the area with your hand and listen for the hollow sound (good!) vs solid or muffled sound (bad!) to help determine where the studs might be.

Although I used a stud finder, I still ran into a could of obstacles. I caught the edge of a floor joist, a 2x4 support and an HVAC duct. I shifted my speakers over a little due to the floor joist and luckily the depth of the speaker did not hit the HVAC duct and I just cut out the 2x4 support with a reciprocating saw. I'm going to slap some dynamat on the duct for insurance against vibrations.


2x4 Support



HVAC



Floor Joist

Dude, impressive bit of installation but let me give you a heads up on a CI trick. When installing ceiling speakers, to avoid the joist issues you encountered, do this:

Determine where you'd optimally like the speakers.
Use the template that comes with the speakers and trace that on the ceiling.
Drill a tiny hole in the exact middle of that circle.
Take a metal hanger, undo it's curves and bend it so you have a horizontal length of either 3" or 4" (1/2 a 6" speaker or 8" speaker, respectively).
The vertical length of the above should long enough to get a good grip on.
Shove the 3" or 4" length thru the ceiling hole and adjust it until it's lying flat (as in horizontal).
Using the vertical end, spin the 3" or 4" length in a circle.
If you encounter no obstructions you're good to go. If it hits something (probably a floor joist) you find another place. Which should be pretty easy considering the space between floor joists is standard.

Regards.
 

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I'm considering purchasing a set of 804 D3s for use as front Left/Right channels to replace my current CM8s.
I am somewhat still considering just stepping down to the 702 S2 instead though (sounded very good as well to my ears)

I'm struggling with what to do about a center channel though. Whatever I do should at least be a significant upgrade from my CM Centre...
I wish I could make an HTM2 D3 work, but it is significantly taller than what I can fit on in my Salamander media cabinet at 12" tall.
The HTM71 S2 Centre Speaker at 8.6" tall would easily fit in the 9" opening of my media cabinet, but I'm worried that it won't keep up with the 804 D3s or even the 702 S2s.

Possibly a very bad idea, but has anyone ever used a single 705 S2 bookshelf laid sideways as a center channel speaker (805 D3 is still too wide at 9.3")? It seems like the tweeter on the 705 S2 would at least be a better match to the 804 D3, but I feel like I must be missing something.

Thoughts?

My current 7.2.4 setup is:

B&W CM8 - Front
B&W CM Centre - Center
B&W FPM6 - Side Surround
B&W FPM2 - Back Surround
B&W CCM683 - Front & Rear Ceiling
SVS SB16 Ultra - Dual Subwoofers
Marantz AV7703 - Pre/pro
NAD C 658 - Preamp
Emotiva XPA-9 G3 - Front (bi-amp), Center, Side & Back Surround
Emotiva A-500 - Front & Rear Ceiling
I have learned a little lesson for myself. I have consistently paid a pretty good amount of money for left/right/center, typically monitors. This time, I auditioned the 702 S2 by chance and really thought they were fantastic. I spent about half this time going with the 702 S2 and I have really fallen in love with them.

Now on to the center question. For me, I am most likely going to go with the Diamond center but for anyone considering the 702 S2 I strongly suggest you try phantom first (no center) and see what you think. If you look at many of my past posts I rave about centers, and I still feel this way but the 702 S2 has really really blown me away with phantom capabilities. I am truly not exaggerating how good it is in my my own set-up.

Maybe because the tweeter is separate and a bit higher than what I have had in the past, but still close to ear level. It might help "rise/disperse" over the cabinet that holds my gear better than in the past. Having that tweeter on top and separate has really made an incredible difference with phantom imaging. I can't tell you how many times I have double checked just to make sure the TV volume is not on.

These are great speakers. And I spent less than usual.

I read some folks saying bright? Huh? This couldn't be farther from the truth, at least to my ears.

So again, you may really want to try these first without a center and see what you think. I will still push forward and obtain a center but the 702 S2 performance has not made it a priority. To the point that I am considering a move to a 77 OLED for football prior to the center. The imaging is that good. It can wait. The 49ers cannot :D
 

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Anyone here use current class d amps (ati at542nc) on 800 series d3? Specifically 803d3 but any info even opinions are welcome. Would I be doing myself and my speakers a disservice by using a class d? TIA
 

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I have the same LCR as you as well as the same amp. I was thinking of bi-amping the 803d3.. But also thinking about maybe getting the who at542nc. The at6003 is not that much more powerful than the 200w outlaw. Just wondering what you ended up doing. Thanks


Just picked up a pair of 803d3 and HTM2 d3, replacing the CM10s2 and the CMcenter2 s2. And moved the cm10 for the surround duty.
The cm10/CMcent2/cm6/m1 (atmos) were originally power by the Outlaw 7200 (200wx7).
I am thinking of upgrade my 3 front channel to a better amp. One of the candidate is ATI 6003. My budget is around $5000.
Would love to get you comment and suggestion.

Thanks....wil /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
 

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Anyone here use current class d amps (ati at542nc) on 800 series d3? Specifically 803d3 but any info even opinions are welcome. Would I be doing myself and my speakers a disservice by using a class d? TIA
I use the Trinnov Amplitude8; with 8xHypex N-Core NC-1200 modules. I also have an Amplitude8M with 8xHypex N-Core NC-500 modules. I would select the NC-1200 for 803d3; I run the Hypex N-Core NC-1200 on my 802D3 - which works really well.

Edit:
Both Trinnov Amplitude8 and Amplitude8M are made by ATI by the way.
I run the NC-500 modules for ceiling speakers. NC-1200 for fronts and surround (and 2 individual power supplies; one for each 4 channels); A Bryston 4BSST2 for wides. 18 channels + 2 subs; it's insane, but very fun :) It's a 9.2.9 system.
 

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Thanks for the response. Trinnov is a lot out of my budget. Ive yet to research class d amps. And I really dont know yet what the differences are between different n-core modules. I have much to learn before I make another purchase.

Anyone here use current class d amps (ati at542nc) on 800 series d3? Specifically 803d3 but any info even opinions are welcome. Would I be doing myself and my speakers a disservice by using a class d? TIA
I use the Trinnov Amplitude8; with 8xHypex N-Core NC-1200 modules. I also have an Amplitude8M with 8xHypex N-Core NC-500 modules. I would select the NC-1200 for 803d3; I run the Hypex N-Core NC-1200 on my 802D3 - which works really well.

Edit:
Both Trinnov Amplitude8 and Amplitude8M are made by ATI by the way.
I run the NC-500 modules for ceiling speakers. NC-1200 for fronts and surround (and 2 individual power supplies; one for each 4 channels); A Bryston 4BSST2 for wides. 18 channels + 2 subs; it's insane, but very fun /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif It's a 9.2.9 system.
 

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Anyone here use current class d amps (ati at542nc) on 800 series d3? Specifically 803d3 but any info even opinions are welcome. Would I be doing myself and my speakers a disservice by using a class d? TIA
My ATi review was with the use of 802D3s.
 

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Thanks read your review, I'm almost convinced that I would be going that route. Now 2 or 3 channels? Hmm.. So many options.

Anyone here use current class d amps (ati at542nc) on 800 series d3? Specifically 803d3 but any info even opinions are welcome. Would I be doing myself and my speakers a disservice by using a class d? TIA
My ATi review was with the use of 802D3s.
 

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Thanks read your review, I'm almost convinced that I would be going that route. Now 2 or 3 channels? Hmm.. So many options.
Too many options. Fortunately, you cannot go wrong with many (most?) of them.
 

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I have the same LCR as you as well as the same amp. I was thinking of bi-amping the 803d3.. But also thinking about maybe getting the who at542nc. The at6003 is not that much more powerful than the 200w outlaw. Just wondering what you ended up doing. Thanks
1. One of the main reason to upgrade the Outlaw 7200, want to switch over from RCA ( unbalance ) to balance connection. Although I have resolve my ground loop hum ( at the moment ). I just dont want to have to deal with it again.
2. With the money spend on the 800 series, What is another 5k, knowing SQ can only improve by the additional 100w ( 200 to 300, I hope). But more importantly, 803d3 do drop down to 3 ohm, having 450w available would be reassuring.
3. I am running 5.1.2 presently, want to upgrade to 5.1.4, so eitherway, I will need to add an additional 2 channel anyway.


Next question, will be, which type and manufacture, to get. At the moment, for long term usage and stability
I think A/B amp, is better than D type amp. I am open for additional option.
I am considering ATI, because I have good experience with the Outlaw, and the price is somewhat reasonable, comparing to Mac and Classe. :):):)
 

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JVC RS4500 | ST130 G4 135" | MRX 720 | MC303 MC152 | B&W 802D3, HTM1D3, 805D3, 702S2 | 4x15 IB Subs
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I have learned a little lesson for myself. I have consistently paid a pretty good amount of money for left/right/center, typically monitors. This time, I auditioned the 702 S2 by chance and really thought they were fantastic. I spent about half this time going with the 702 S2 and I have really fallen in love with them.

Now on to the center question. For me, I am most likely going to go with the Diamond center but for anyone considering the 702 S2 I strongly suggest you try phantom first (no center) and see what you think. If you look at many of my past posts I rave about centers, and I still feel this way but the 702 S2 has really really blown me away with phantom capabilities. I am truly not exaggerating how good it is in my my own set-up.

Maybe because the tweeter is separate and a bit higher than what I have had in the past, but still close to ear level. It might help "rise/disperse" over the cabinet that holds my gear better than in the past. Having that tweeter on top and separate has really made an incredible difference with phantom imaging. I can't tell you how many times I have double checked just to make sure the TV volume is not on.

These are great speakers. And I spent less than usual.

I read some folks saying bright? Huh? This couldn't be farther from the truth, at least to my ears.

So again, you may really want to try these first without a center and see what you think. I will still push forward and obtain a center but the 702 S2 performance has not made it a priority. To the point that I am considering a move to a 77 OLED for football prior to the center. The imaging is that good. It can wait. The 49ers cannot :D
I agree with you that 702S2 running with phantom center is going to sound better (for the guy in main listening position) than if you add the HTM71. But I think if you went with something like an HTM1D3 you'd think it added value over the phantom center. The 700 series centers are just unimpressive.
 

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Thanks for the reply please keep me posted on the impressions you have with the new amp which ever one you get. btw Kal's review on the Class D ATI is quite interesting as he has the 802d3 and other speakers and compared them to other class a/b amps.



1. One of the main reason to upgrade the Outlaw 7200, want to switch over from RCA ( unbalance ) to balance connection. Although I have resolve my ground loop hum ( at the moment ). I just dont want to have to deal with it again.
2. With the money spend on the 800 series, What is another 5k, knowing SQ can only improve by the additional 100w ( 200 to 300, I hope). But more importantly, 803d3 do drop down to 3 ohm, having 450w available would be reassuring.
3. I am running 5.1.2 presently, want to upgrade to 5.1.4, so eitherway, I will need to add an additional 2 channel anyway.


Next question, will be, which type and manufacture, to get. At the moment, for long term usage and stability
I think A/B amp, is better than D type amp. I am open for additional option.
I am considering ATI, because I have good experience with the Outlaw, and the price is somewhat reasonable, comparing to Mac and Classe. :):):)
 

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Thanks for the reply please keep me posted on the impressions you have with the new amp which ever one you get. btw Kal's review on the Class D ATI is quite interesting as he has the 802d3 and other speakers and compared them to other class a/b amps.
I used to use both Class D and AB Rotel amps ((RMB-1575 Class D) and (Rotel RMB-1585 ClassAB)) I recently switched to ATI Class D amps specifically the AT527NC. Comparing Rotel ICEpower (B&O class D modules) the ATI HYPEX NCore is so much better not even in the same league. Comparing the ATI NCore To the Class AB Rotel amp still I like the ATI Class D amp much better. The ATI Class D is more revealing and clear and there is zero distortion in the highs or lows. I will need go back to class AB amps. What makes the ATI class D amps so good are the huge power supplies that they use. The ATI class D amps are tanks unlike most class D amps that weigh nothing. I have B&W CWm7.3 in-walls that I believe are the only 4ohm speaker B&W makes (they did down to 3.7ohms) the ATI amps have zero issues handling them and I run 5 of them in a 5.2.4 setup. If you live anywhere near Washington DC, I live in Arlington VA. you can come over and give them a listen if like.

Dave
 

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The Hypex nCore modules NC500 and NC1200 handle below 2ohm fine as well. I think they are the best amplifier technology the last 20 years; perfect for B&W. ATI is a solid brand; so go for these is my recommendation (or other amplifiers produced by ATI). The important part with nCore, they need a robust power supply. So the amplifier should be heavy; else something is wrong with the design.
 

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Joined the club and picked up the following off of a friend of mine who was the original owner:

Code:
Nautilus 803
Nautilus NHTM1
AWS 800
2 x B&K 220m Reference mono blocks
The current setup has the B&Ks running the FLR, a NAD 758 v3 is powering the NHTM1 (for now), and I'm trying to find a good matching set of surround speakers to fill out at 5.1 system. The surrounds would also be run from the A/V until I can decide on whether or not a dedicated 5/7 channel amp is warranted to power everything and replaced the B&Ks.

What would you guys recommend for a set of surrounds under $1k that would match what I currently have pretty well? There are a pair of DM302 and some 686s on craigslist pretty cheap :) I keep seeing conflicting information on timbre matching, go cheap on surrounds, and amps that sound good with B&Ws.
 

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Joined the club and picked up the following off of a friend of mine who was the original owner:

Code:
Nautilus 803
Nautilus NHTM1
AWS 800
2 x B&K 220m Reference mono blocks
The current setup has the B&Ks running the FLR, a NAD 758 v3 is powering the NHTM1 (for now), and I'm trying to find a good matching set of surround speakers to fill out at 5.1 system. The surrounds would also be run from the A/V until I can decide on whether or not a dedicated 5/7 channel amp is warranted to power everything and replaced the B&Ks.

What would you guys recommend for a set of surrounds under $1k that would match what I currently have pretty well? There are a pair of DM302 and some 686s on craigslist pretty cheap :) I keep seeing conflicting information on timbre matching, go cheap on surrounds, and amps that sound good with B&Ws.
I had CCM683's in my previous home with 804's and an HTM1 center. With such a nice setup, I wouldn't suggest skimping. If you are looking for a new pair, I may be able to help you out.

I am running just 803's and an HTM1 and an SVS SB-4000 in our new home. My wife veto'd holes in the ceiling :(

If you want some on walls, get the matching B&W Nautilus SCM1's
 

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I have the 702 S2 as my front speakers and a HSU ULS-15 MK2 as a sub. I am looking to get the center channel but the height on HTM71 and HTMD2 won't fit into the space I have. Would I be making a huge mistake by going with another brand for the center. I have been looking at the Goldenear Supercenter Reference which would fit into the space I have but am worried that this will not match up well with the 702 S2?
 
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