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Originally Posted by dan30306  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18060#post_24661594


Chances are, none of it is Meridian tech. Maybe the DSP tuning but that's about it. Automotive components are completely different in technology for temperature range as well as lifespan. The automotive electronics manufacturers are niche when it comes to design- there are only 5 OEM suppliers in the audio space. CE technology moves a lot faster than automotive due to validation/certification requirements. You can't just pull over a car and "reboot" if something screws up so the validation time alone is years. To give you an idea on the design time- I did the Class D amps for Acura in 2009 that just came out in the 2014 model year Acura's. That's "new" for 2014 but I finished the design in 2009 and left Panasonic in 2011. It takes that long for them to actually go through the validation steps and also get to production. CE manufacturers don't like that time frame so that's why they stay out of the space. Meridian more than likely only contributed their name after being paid millions in brand licensing and at most they gave the acoustic engineers some technical requirements to meet before approving the branding for the system. Then they'll come out and have a listen prior to production to make sure everything meets their requirements. Also, all car systems are 4 ohm speakers, and I don't think there is a single home audio manufacturer that builds a 4 ohm voice-coil.

Found this link which if true, clarifies their level of involvement...

http://www.meridian-audio.info/public/meridian-xf-a4-ds%5B4322%5D.pdf


Anyway, if anyone has the chance to listen to the Jag/Meridian system, it is pretty impressive...
 

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Interesting. All the info under the "technology" section is typical of most audio systems. The speakers look interesting though- that's not the norm. Most speakers are junk $5.00 jobbies made in China or India. The only branded system that I know of that actually makes their own speakers in house is Dynaudio. The speakers in a VW Dynaudio system are true Dynaudio but that's because they also make aftermarket car audio
 

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Originally Posted by leo2498  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18030#post_24658273


that is why I have some doubts, I have the denon with Audyssey MultEQ and for the size of my room having two subwoofer is overkill. if I could get better performance in multichannel I will go for it but if the final sound in movies or concert is the same I don't think so. I'm not looking nothing in stereo because the classe is giving the best in this option. how much better is Audyssey XT32 vs Audyssey MultEQ?

It is 100% subjective. Personal preference.


Everyone has a singular experience. It is only his personal experience. It is ONE example. Even if his personal experience is significant and "obvious" to him, it does not mean everyone else feels the same.


So it's is difficult to say whether one software is worth the extra money for everyone else.


I have heard XT32 vs XT vs ARC vs other software. It's certainly not day and night or black and white.
 

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Originally Posted by Rod#S  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18030#post_24661294

 I do respect their stance though, the likes of Bryston and Classe as to why they don't include EQ and for Bryston why they only support 7.1 as they chose to only support up to the max of true discerete content and since discrete content caps out at 7.1 right now that's where they stopped.
Classe does have a useful EQ.  It is not an automatic one.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18060#post_24662499


Classe does have a useful EQ.  It is not an automatic one.

Ah true but it's not like is done with the likes of Audyssey, Trinnov, Dirac, etc. though is it?
 

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Why aren't all of you high end audio guys using external EQ? Alesis makes 31 band 1/3 octave mono EQ's and they are cheap- like $500 or so. Google: DEQ-230
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan30306  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18060#post_24662763


Why aren't all of you high end audio guys using external EQ? Alesis makes 31 band 1/3 octave mono EQ's and they are cheap- like $500 or so. Google: DEQ-230
There's better.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan30306  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18060#post_24662763


Why aren't all of you high end audio guys using external EQ? Alesis makes 31 band 1/3 octave mono EQ's and they are cheap- like $500 or so. Google: DEQ-230

I can't speak for everyone but personally I wouldn't be able to get the best out of what it can do, I would make things worse.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18060#post_24663306


I can't speak for everyone but personally I wouldn't be able to get the best out of what it can do, I would make things worse.

Not with the right gear to set it all up. It just takes time and patience. If you're spending $20K on a speaker... its worth the time
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan30306  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18060#post_24663569

http://www.audiocontrol.com/t37/60172/19940/Stand-Alone/Acoustic-Analyzer-Iasysreg.html



I actually have one of these in my closet
20Hz-20K sine sweep and those B&W's get the ultimate fine tuning.

I suppose if that's your thing, have fun.


Your original query implies high end calibration systems don't do a good job? From what I've experienced, Dirac, and Trinnov, Room Perfect do excellent jobs. They also work in the time domain as well as frequency, where manual eq is frequency only (this is my understanding)


Your solution requires a two to three thousand dollar investment in eq units, calibrated mic, optional analyzers/software, and a lot of learning, time, and system complexity. I have no desire to do this.


I love a good steak, but I'm not going out to slaughter the steer
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18060#post_24663863


I suppose if that's your thing, have fun.


Your original query implies high end calibration systems don't do a good job? From what I've experienced, Dirac, and Trinnov, Room Perfect do excellent jobs. They also work in the time domain as well as frequency, where manual eq is frequency only (this is my understanding)


Your solution requires a two to three thousand dollar investment in eq units, calibrated mic, optional analyzers/software, and a lot of learning, time, and system complexity. I have no desire to do this.


I love a good steak, but I'm not going out to slaughter the steer

Well, that's where I get confused. Trust me, I'm a fan of high end systems and I have a mediocre CM series based system with a Rotel receiver. I don't however understand the whole "I need $10K Kimber Kable" people that go that far but won't do the above? But, that's why I just have CM's and an integrated receiver.... because I'm somewhat anal and if I get into anything more I'll have a whole rack of EQ's.



Audio control does make manual timing stuff... its even more of a headache.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan30306  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18060#post_24664006


Well, that's where I get confused. Trust me, I'm a fan of high end systems and I have a mediocre CM series based system with a Rotel receiver. I don't however understand the whole "I need $10K Kimber Kable" people that go that far but won't do the above? But, that's why I just have CM's and an integrated receiver.... because I'm somewhat anal and if I get into anything more I'll have a whole rack of EQ's.



Audio control does make manual timing stuff... its even more of a headache.

They are at opposite ends of the spectrum.


Buy cables, plug them in, done (not saying wise, but done).


Buy 5 eq units, cables, eq mic, download software, try and find space for the new crap, add complexity, hunch over your laptop on the floor reading 58 HTML pages attempting to learn how to become an experienced acoustician as your legs cramp up under you, tentatively experiment, be unsure what you are doing for long stretches, realize what you did the week before wasn't exactly right, so you do it again - repeat several times - start spending a lot of time on threads on Home Theater Shack reading comments you don't fully understand...Not done...


Can you tell I toyed with the idea?


And I still don't think you can accomplish what sophisticated room correction solutions can, all without the leg cramps...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18060#post_24661837


Found this link which if true, clarifies their level of involvement...

http://www.meridian-audio.info/public/meridian-xf-a4-ds%5B4322%5D.pdf


Anyway, if anyone has the chance to listen to the Jag/Meridian system, it is pretty impressive...

I really like the Bang & Olufsen systems you get get in the Audi. However...it better sound good when it's a 4k and higher upgrade!


See Ya,

Steve
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18060#post_24664125


They are at opposite ends of the spectrum.


Buy cables, plug them in, done (not saying wise, but done).


Buy 5 eq units, cables, eq mic, download software, try and find space for the new crap, add complexity, hunch over your laptop on the floor reading 58 HTML pages attempting to learn how to become an experienced acoustician as your legs cramp up under you, tentatively experiment, be unsure what you are doing for long stretches, realize what you did the week before wasn't exactly right, so you do it again - repeat several times - start spending a lot of time on threads on Home Theater Shack reading comments you don't fully understand...Not done...


Can you tell I toyed with the idea?


And I still don't think you can accomplish what sophisticated room correction solutions can, all without the leg cramps...

For the most I agree with what's being said. It's a damn shame you can spend the $$$$$$ were talking about and still encounter system calibration issues. Scary part is there seems to not be any fool proof choice. That's why I scaled back to 5.1 and did it as good as I could and not looked back. As some point down the road I will look at upgrading the SSP side of things, although I'm please with my SSP-800 for HT. I'm also pleased with my CP-800 for 2 channel. I think there's a lot of debate on 4k, and a good chance we will jump to 8k. Most of that is a video concern, and while it's nice to have 4k ready equipment, you can use work a rounds for the video signal. I will say I'm super pleased to have separates for everything in my system. For some buying an integrated amp and SSP may be the cheapest option. I don't see any choices that covers all the bases today.


See Ya,

Steve
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18060#post_24664125


They are at opposite ends of the spectrum.


Buy cables, plug them in, done (not saying wise, but done).


Buy 5 eq units, cables, eq mic, download software, try and find space for the new crap, add complexity, hunch over your laptop on the floor reading 58 HTML pages attempting to learn how to become an experienced acoustician as your legs cramp up under you, tentatively experiment, be unsure what you are doing for long stretches, realize what you did the week before wasn't exactly right, so you do it again - repeat several times - start spending a lot of time on threads on Home Theater Shack reading comments you don't fully understand...Not done...


Can you tell I toyed with the idea?


And I still don't think you can accomplish what sophisticated room correction solutions can, all without the leg cramps...

Actually- its not that difficult. If you have the RTA (the audiocontrol I put the link up for), you just plug in the mic, an output to your amp, and hit one button. It will generate the sine wave sweep from 20Hz to 20K and provide a report. Then you just follow the on-screen instructions for dialing in the EQ curve on the 31 band EQ. After that, you just delay the channel to the setting it gives you. Granted, you have to do it more than one time (once to test, once to validate new settings) per channel BUT... no automated correction system can accomplish this type of tuning regardless of how much money you spend on it or how good the design is. It can come close, but its not doing 1/3 octave measurements. Its a one time process (providing you don't move anything later) and it shouldn't take more than a couple hours for a 5.1 channel set up. For stereo- an hour tops.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClasseAddict  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18060#post_24664657


For the most I agree with what's being said. It's a damn shame you can spend the $$$$$$ were talking about and still encounter system calibration issues. Scary part is there seems to not be any fool proof choice. That's why I scaled back to 5.1 and did it as good as I could and not looked back. As some point down the road I will look at upgrading the SSP side of things, although I'm please with my SSP-800 for HT. I'm also pleased with my CP-800 for 2 channel. I think there's a lot of debate on 4k, and a good chance we will jump to 8k. Most of that is a video concern, and while it's nice to have 4k ready equipment, you can use work a rounds for the video signal. I will say I'm super pleased to have separates for everything in my system. For some buying an integrated amp and SSP may be the cheapest option. I don't see any choices that covers all the bases today.


See Ya,

Steve

Its a YMMV thing I guess. For me, if I'm spending the money on 802D's, then I'm spending the money on the amps and processors to make those speakers shine. At the same time, I'm going to spend the time and money on tuning it to get 100% out of those 802D's. No automated correction systems are going to give you that and it can't. Automated room correction is for "good enough". Well, my B&W CM setup I have today is "good enough" for what I wanted at the time. Would I spend the money for 802D's. Yes, absolutely... but I haven't because I don't want to get into spending the money on the rest of the system to make those speakers really shine. Plus... it absolutely kills me to spend tens of thousands of dollars on hardware when as and engineer what I see is a thousand dollars worth or chips top. I look at a Classe amp and I see $600 in parts.
I can't choke down $10K for one no matter how I try to justify it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan30306  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18060#post_24665988


Its a YMMV thing I guess. For me, if I'm spending the money on 802D's, then I'm spending the money on the amps and processors to make those speakers shine. At the same time, I'm going to spend the time and money on tuning it to get 100% out of those 802D's. No automated correction systems are going to give you that and it can't. Automated room correction is for "good enough". Well, my B&W CM setup I have today is "good enough" for what I wanted at the time. Would I spend the money for 802D's. Yes, absolutely... but I haven't because I don't want to get into spending the money on the rest of the system to make those speakers really shine. Plus... it absolutely kills me to spend tens of thousands of dollars on hardware when as and engineer what I see is a thousand dollars worth or chips top. I look at a Classe amp and I see $600 in parts.
I can't choke down $10K for one no matter how I try to justify it.

There is no proof that manually tuning your response curve will be any better than something like Audyssey XT32 or ARC or Dirac or others in terms of actual sound quality.


And there is certainly no proof that you can take speakers with terrible horizontal off-axis and actually smooth out the horizontal off-axis responses.


I think people who care about getting a flat on-axis and smooth off-axis frequency response shouldn't even buy B&W speakers in the first place.
They should buy Revel, KEF, RBH, etc.


Just because your response curve is flatter does not guarantee that it will sound better subjectively. I assume that is why you said "YMMV".
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan30306  /t/755048/b-w-owners-thread/18060#post_24662763


Why aren't all of you high end audio guys using external EQ? Alesis makes 31 band 1/3 octave mono EQ's and they are cheap- like $500 or so. Google: DEQ-230

I suppose the external EQ could flatten out the on-axis response curve. But there is no proof that it looks significantly better than Audyssey XT32, Dirac, ARC, Trinnov, etc. More importantly there is no proof that it actually improves the sound quality.


I know some crowd think that they can just take any speaker with bad on-axis and off-axis responses and EQ them into nirvana. But it's not happening.


But again, you did say YMMV. So if it produces better results for you, then that's great.
 
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