[FLSTFI]

In past reading here I notice that it is not uncommon to come up with a bad disc once in awhile.

How many would you accept to be bad, if any, in a spindle of 50 ?

I just opened my Maxell MIJ (from Sears) and out of the first 4 recordings 3 were bad.

When I dub a movie to DVD I FF thru it a few times to see if there are any major problems. Three of these 4 froze in the middle.

I also read here that some of you run a test on the disc's. I could not find what test but I am guessing it is the scan disc in Nero CD Speed. Is that correct?

When I ran that test it showed about 20% bad on each of the 3 disc's.

Is there a way to check blank DVD's and save a lot of time?

Should I keep trying the Maxells and hope that the alloted bad ones were all on top or should I return them? (Are open packs returnable?)


BTW I recopied one the movies to Sony MIT and it tested 100%.

 

[jmscott42]

I accept maybe up to 5 bad discs out of 50 in an EXTREME case (such as burning at full 16x, or using a new burner/firmware). With good media, even 1 per 50 is cause for concern.


There's no way to test blank media since what you're testing is the quality of the burn-- so until you put data on the disc there is nothing to see. (literally!) There are lots of different programs to test depending on your burner, such as Plextools and CD Speed.


Open packs seem to really vary about being returnable. If I get a run like you got, I'd definitely go back to the store and complain. Try a disc from the middle of the spindle just to check, but it sounds like you got a bad spindle, and/or your burner really does not like those specific discs. (The 8X MIJ Maxells seemed to be much harder to get good burns than the 4X-- but if you got a burner that liked them they rival TY)

 

[FLSTFI]

From this experience I guess every recording should be checked before erasing it from the HDD.

All my recordings are made on the EH-75 and my testing on my laptop.

The scan disc is the only thing my burner will do on CD Speed, I get the message "does not support" when I try other functions.

Is the scan test all that is needed to know that you have a good copy or is there something else that should be checked? (Good test results = Good copy?)


I did not think DVD recording would become so involved and time consuming. I have a closet full of about 500 VHS & SVHS recordings and I don't think I ever had a bad tape.


Thanks for the help and advice.

 

[jmscott42]

Some (most?) drives don't support full quality scans, and even then many (especially Pioneers) aren't very good at quality scans. (even though Pioneer burners are awesome) A read-speed test is actually a fairly good test of quality, though -- if it's a straight line, with no untoward dips or spikes in the reading rate, the disc is at least "passable" (meaning your drive can read it full speed with no problems). If it starts dipping you know your drive is having trouble reading it.


It's not scientific but it can give you an idea as to what is going on.


Keep in mind any of these tests only tell you how that disc is doing at that specific moment in time. Different media is known to degrade at different speeds. While higher end discs (like MIJ Maxell usually is) won't degrade noticably for at least a few years, cheaper discs will start going bad very quickly.


DVD recording is definitely nothing like VHS recording. Part of it is the companies not educating consumers at all, and consumers constantly demanding cheaper and cheaper drives and media without realising that the corners being cut are producing a VERY subpar product. I'm really worried about the digital 'dark ages' to come when all of this media hits a certain age and people start noticing that it's not quite as permanent as they were led to believe...

 

[FullOnShred]

I just returned my 8x DVD-R MIJ Maxell Media to Sears for a refund. It is not good media like the old Maxell 4x DVD-R was. After several failed burns I looked really closely at the media surface and saw some really dark purple spots that looked like drips or spills for lack of a better example. They were small, and only visible at certain angles under good light. I then read somewhere on a Googled up site that the Maxell MIJ from sears and wallyworld etc. had a bad run where "disc seperation" was a problem. That is, the two halves were not glued together properly and would begin to seperate causing massive disc failure. Early evidence of this is the small dark "spots" in the burn like I saw on mine. I am done with Maxell media for good.

 

[ACPewty]

I am on my 4th spindle (50s and 100s) of Verbatim 16x DVD-Rs always burning at high speed and still have yet to get a coaster. Perfect record.


I typically pay just around 35 cents (Canadian) per disc, so with all the recommendations around here for Verbatim and TY, unless it's a lack of availability in your area I can't understand why anyone would bother with lesser media. Is it really worth saving another few pennies when you end up wasting your time and wear-and-tear on your recorder which has a limited life to begin with??

 

[dssturbo1]

even the higher brands can fail at times, i recently got a bad spindle of 100 16X dvd-r verbatim. at least 30 bad out of the 100. emailed verbatim 2 times but no response. bought some office depot branded Activa to get through and they have been ok so far. Going back to the TY premium 8X from supermedia store.

 

[bingolong]



Quote:
Originally Posted by dssturbo1 /forum/post/0


Going back to the TY premium 8X from supermedia store.

Smart move. TYs are the best.

 

[FLSTFI]

ACpewty I agree with that 100% !

But what is an old timer (like me) supposed to do when he finally gives up the VHS that is going to disintegrate in 20 years and has a poor picture (compared to DVD) and makes the leap to DVD?

I remember reading once that DVD's would outlast tapes by so much they couldn't even put a number on it.

What would make someone think twice about buying Maxell, TDK, Sony ----.

Only experience. Theirs or someone elses like you find here.

I didn't buy "Acme" , they were Maxell MIJ that were supposed to be good. Just my luck that I got the bad ones.

And if you walked into a store knowing nothing about DVD's and all they had were Maxell and TY what would most people buy if they were looking for something good?

Anyway, so I don't have to search for it, what are the top 1-2-3 Brands in different types (+,-,DL) and what is the easiest place to find them. I have never seen a TY in a store.

BTW I just returned the Maxells to Sears. They had some Sony MIJ but I figured with my luck something would be wrong.

 

[bingolong]

For dvd-r, go with Taiyo Yuden from either Supermediastore or Meritline.


You can get a 100 cake of 8X discs for about $0.25 per disc at Supermediastore (w/free shipping).

 

[ACPewty]



Quote:
Originally Posted by FLSTFI /forum/post/0


ACpewty I agree with that 100% !

But what is an old timer (like me) supposed to do...What would make someone think twice about buying Maxell, TDK, Sony ----. Only experience. Theirs or someone elses like you find here. I didn't buy "Acme" , they were Maxell MIJ that were supposed to be good. Just my luck that I got the bad ones.

And if you walked into a store knowing nothing about DVD's and all they had were Maxell and TY what would most people buy if they were looking for something good?

Sorry, my comment wasn't directed specifically at you but more at a few members here that have been around a while but still buy cheap brands and then post a complaint here. (No one specifically in this thread.) Seems to happen fairly often.


I agree that with no prior knowledge I would probably buy the known brand name, but I now try to research purchases using the web and forums like this are a great resource for that. Better safe than sorry.

I don't know if this will help you, but FYI I buy my Verbatims at Staples or Future Shop in Canada. Staples often has sales and as a matter of fact they have spindles of 50 on sale right now for CDN $17.96. (about US $16.00) Not the best price I've seen, but not bad.

 

[FullOnShred]

Not directed to anyone in particular, but Maxell MIJ 4x Media was very good stuff, and I think it was not unreasonable to expect that Maxell MIJ 8x would be good as well.


In fact, some of the MIJ Maxell stuff that was problematic was made by TAIYO for Maxell. Even the best Mfg. screw up at times. But I am officially done with Maxell Media. Unless I stumble across a source for the old yellow 4x MIJ stuff.

 

[FLSTFI]

Sorry, my comment wasn't directed specifically at you .


I didn't think it was. I just wanted to calmly vent my feelings about the way things are going. It is getting harder and harder to find anything of quality anymore. But that is for a different forum.


I now try to research purchases using the web and forums like this are a great resource for that. Better safe than sorry.


I am glad you said this. I agree. What would I do now if i wasn't for this forum. And I wouldn't have found it if it wasn't for the trouble I had trying to understand the EH-75 Manual

 

[slprp1]



Quote:
Originally Posted by FullOnShred /forum/post/0


Not directed to anyone in particular, but Maxell MIJ 4x Media was very good stuff, and I think it was not unreasonable to expect that Maxell MIJ 8x would be good as well.


In fact, some of the MIJ Maxell stuff that was problematic was made by TAIYO for Maxell. Even the best Mfg. screw up at times. But I am officially done with Maxell Media. Unless I stumble across a source for the old yellow 4x MIJ stuff.

......just curious...... is the "old yellow" 4x Maxell MIJ made by Taiyo for Maxell?

 

[jmscott42]

The old yellow 4x could be EITHER true Maxell or TY. The bonding issues I have personally seen have only been with TY-made Maxell 4X. I haven't seen issues with the true Maxell 4x media.


I've never been able to figure out how to tell the difference without actually putting each disc in a burner and getting the MID...

 

[slprp1]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jmscott42 /forum/post/0


The old yellow 4x could be EITHER true Maxell or TY. The bonding issues I have personally seen have only been with TY-made Maxell 4X. I haven't seen issues with the true Maxell 4x media.


I've never been able to figure out how to tell the difference without actually putting each disc in a burner and getting the MID...

Thanks!......

How can I determine (for certain), who made my discs? They're yellow 4X Maxell's in individual jewel cases (sold in packages of 20 by Staples some time ago).

How (specifically) do I get the "MID" (what do these initials stand for)?

I need to do some serious archiving and disc quality and longevity is key!

 

[jmscott42]

MID is Media ID. You need to get a program like DVD Identifier and run it. Your computer must have a DVD burner (I don't think any DVD-ROM drives [including CD-RW/DVD-ROM combos] can read the Media ID) to check...


If you are archiving, probably the best/safest best would be Taiyo Yuden 8X media, bought online from a place like Supermediastore. The TY 8x DVD+R appears to be some of the best media ever made, with the 8X DVD-R very close behind. (depending on if you must burn -R or +R only or have your choice)


TY 4x media is also VERY good but if you get the Maxell discs you may see the bonding issues.


TY 16x media is still good but nowhere near as good as the other two.

 

[Sean Nelson]



Quote:
Originally Posted by FLSTFI /forum/post/0


I just wanted to calmly vent my feelings about the way things are going. It is getting harder and harder to find anything of quality anymore. But that is for a different forum.

Actually, it's probably exactly the right topic for a thread titled "bad media"...

The downside of DVD media is that because of the built-in error correction you can't tell if the media is degrading just by watching the disc. A disc that is on the verge of failure can play perfectly well.


The upside of DVD media is that the same error correction really can recover data that is pretty far gone. You just have to be careful not to let it get TOO far gone.


The first and best line of defence is to make sure you're doing good burns. And the only way to be sure of that is to test your burns using a PC with the right kind of reader and software. As other have alluded, even good brands sometimes give bad batches, and some good brands work better than others with certain types of burners, firmware, and burning modes (ie, realtime vs. high-speed).


I've been regularly testing my burns for over a year and a half, and so far I've not seen any indication that disks which burned well are degrading. Some other disks with very poor burns have, however, degraded quite significantly.


Longtime forum members have seen my exhortations on this subject before, but I feel they're worth repeating for newer members who may not have seen them...

 

[Chuck44]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jmscott42 /forum/post/0


...There's no way to test blank media since what you're testing is the quality of the burn-- so until you put data on the disc there is nothing to see. (literally!) There are lots of different programs to test depending on your burner, such as Plextools and CD Speed...

Actually, if you have a BenQ drive you can use a program

called QSuite to check blank media, although it's not totally reliable.

 

[jmscott42]

Exactly. Until you burn, there's no real way to know the quality of the disc. I've never seen any real evidence that scanning blank media for focus/tracking errors is worth the hassle..