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I am seriously looking forward to this build! Does the TPL-150 come in a semi-waveguide type housing? I remember seeing or reading something about the housing being like a semi-waveguide or something that can help focus directivity while also increasing sensitivity??


I wonder how the Beyma compares to the RAAL (70-20xr or the 70-15D) in terms of detail, clarity, and decay time? I know those are the top attributes of the RAAL. I honestly did not buy into the hype surrounding the RAAL, but; I can honestly say that after owning a RAAL equipped LCR, it really is the best tweeter that I have ever heard! If the TPL-150 can provide the same detailed top end with similar clarity and decay time, then it will definitely be a winner, especially considering the sensitivity, extension, and directivity advantages!
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007  /t/1530592/thinking-about-a-raal-in-a-waveguide/30#post_24706460


I am seriously looking forward to this build! Does the TPL-150 come in a semi-waveguide type housing? I remember seeing or reading something about the housing being like a semi-waveguide or something that can help focus directivity while also increasing sensitivity??


I wonder how the Beyma compares to the RAAL (70-20xr or the 70-15D) in terms of detail, clarity, and decay time? I know those are the top attributes of the RAAL. I honestly did not buy into the hype surrounding the RAAL, but; I can honestly say that after owning a RAAL equipped LCR, it really is the best tweeter that I have ever heard! If the TPL-150 can provide the same detailed top end with similar clarity and decay time, then it will definitely be a winner, especially considering the sensitivity, extension, and directivity advantages!

The TPL-150H comes with the waveguide: http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma%20tpl150h-1.htm
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5  /t/1530592/thinking-about-a-raal-in-a-waveguide/30#post_24706665


I plan on a vertical arrangement, but here is a pair of TD12M's mated to the TPL-150 in sealed alignment. Builder said he is getting 60hz in room. Mine will also be baffle wall mount.
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/379573-custom-main-monitors-complete.html

That's me! Any questions? We've since installed dual Rythmik 15's per side and raised Xover closer to 80Hz.. They're left and right of the mains in what looks like corner bass traps.


Greg

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007  /t/1530592/thinking-about-a-raal-in-a-waveguide/30#post_24706460


I am seriously looking forward to this build! Does the TPL-150 come in a semi-waveguide type housing? I remember seeing or reading something about the housing being like a semi-waveguide or something that can help focus directivity while also increasing sensitivity??


I wonder how the Beyma compares to the RAAL (70-20xr or the 70-15D) in terms of detail, clarity, and decay time? I know those are the top attributes of the RAAL. I honestly did not buy into the hype surrounding the RAAL, but; I can honestly say that after owning a RAAL equipped LCR, it really is the best tweeter that I have ever heard! If the TPL-150 can provide the same detailed top end with similar clarity and decay time, then it will definitely be a winner, especially considering the sensitivity, extension, and directivity advantages!

I have a few years of experience now with the TPL-150 and both Raal 140-15 and 70-20. Raal still wins for ultimate SQ, but I think in a theater setting I might choose the TPL since it is so powerful. Those extra 5-6dB of sensitivity really pay off for dynamics. Not that the Raal are missing something, but once you get over and above 95dB ballpark(at listening position), the TPL eats the Raal for lunch. However it has never sounded as extended and airy as the Raals. On good recordings, the sound of the Raals just seems to float in the the air without that usual apparent signature of a driver making sounds. Closest to a Plasma tweeter that I've ever heard. IF you decide on the TPL, I would suggest poking around the diyaudio forums for info about moding the rear chamber for lowered distortion. I will do this some day at the studio.


For something more current, I have these studio monitors entering production very soon. Raal 70-20, Neo8-S mid and 10" Scan Speak all powered by Digmoda three way amp/dsp units. Black plywood was prototype, blue bamboo will be first finished product.


Greg


 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbegland  /t/1530592/thinking-about-a-raal-in-a-waveguide/30#post_24707234


That's me! Any questions? We've since installed dual Rythmik 15's per side and raised Xover closer to 80Hz.. They're left and right of the mains in what looks like corner bass traps.


Greg


Just need a design and I am ready to get started. What internal volume did you use? I would like to go sealed, but need to know the required volume to get to at least 80hz. Also will baffle mount these. As far as toe-in, did you find pointed at main listening position was better than crossing in front of you? My application is HT, that is why I picked the TPL-150H over RAAL.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5  /t/1530592/thinking-about-a-raal-in-a-waveguide/30#post_24707628


Just need a design and I am ready to get started. What internal volume did you use? I would like to go sealed, but need to know the required volume to get to at least 80hz. Also will baffle mount these. As far as toe-in, did you find pointed at main listening position was better than crossing in front of you? My application is HT, that is why I picked the TPL-150H over RAAL.

We are using the non horn version, so not sure about toe-in with horn in place. The highest octaves are pretty directional, especially vertical, so positioning is critical. Of course, you could always try to fashion some pads similar to Raal to help, but then EQing would be necessary to combat to rolled off top end. As mentioned in the PM I sent you, I seem to recall needing a much larger volume sealed than just .6cuft. We are at about 1.5cuft per driver if I recall correctly.


Greg
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp  /t/1530592/thinking-about-a-raal-in-a-waveguide/30#post_24708587


could this speaker play at reference level for movies cleanly?

Since the tweeter is 102db sensitive and can handle 80 watts AES or 160 watts program and a pair of TD12M's should be around 99db sensitive, the speaker should be able to play clean reference level easily from my 10' listening distance. The above does not even take into account, me baffle mounting the speakers.
 

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I just finished my build with AE TD12M 8 ohm and the Beyma TPL150H. Sealed cabinets of 30 liters each. Stuffed 75% with wool. Everything but the back (single 28mm) is 2x28mm MDF.


Here is a few pictures:

http://s755.photobucket.com/user/ebbaliten/media/image_zps0286316e.jpg.html

http://s755.photobucket.com/user/ebbaliten/media/image_zps8205601f.jpg.html

http://s755.photobucket.com/user/ebbaliten/media/front_zps888bfcaf.jpg.html


I'm using a MiniDSP 10x10hd and three Crown XLi 800. The subwoofers in the pictures are 4 Dayton HF 15" in sealed cabinets.

Xover for the AE TD12M:s are 80Hz 24dB LR and 1300Hz 12dB LR. If I remember right, it's 1300Hz 12dB LR for the TPL too.


They sound fantastic! I just had to take down a little peak at 1300Hz with EQ, that's about it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbegland  /t/1530592/thinking-about-a-raal-in-a-waveguide/30#post_24707819


We are using the non horn version, so not sure about toe-in with horn in place. The highest octaves are pretty directional, especially vertical, so positioning is critical. Of course, you could always try to fashion some pads similar to Raal to help, but then EQing would be necessary to combat to rolled off top end. As mentioned in the PM I sent you, I seem to recall needing a much larger volume sealed than just .6cuft. We are at about 1.5cuft per driver if I recall correctly.


Greg

Vertical should not be a problem and if I am baffle mounting, using a wider baffle than my SEOS speakers (14.5") should be okay. I think I can make them 16" wide x 12" deep and 40" high. After subtracting drivers and bracing, that would leave me with around 1.4CF per driver in a sealed arrangement. That would be max size, I would be able to do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasW  /t/1530592/thinking-about-a-raal-in-a-waveguide/30#post_24708709


I just finished my build with AE TD12M 8 ohm and the Beyma TPL150H. Sealed cabinets of 30 liters each. Stuffed 75% with wool. Everything but the back (single 28mm) is 2x28mm MDF.


Here is a few pictures:

http://s755.photobucket.com/user/ebbaliten/media/image_zps0286316e.jpg.html

http://s755.photobucket.com/user/ebbaliten/media/image_zps8205601f.jpg.html

http://s755.photobucket.com/user/ebbaliten/media/front_zps888bfcaf.jpg.html


I'm using a MiniDSP 10x10hd and three Crown XLi 800. The subwoofers in the pictures are 4 Dayton HF 15" in sealed cabinets.

Xover for the AE TD12M:s are 80Hz 24dB LR and 1300Hz 12dB LR. If I remember right, it's 1300Hz 12dB LR for the TPL too.


They sound fantastic! I just had to take down a little peak at 1300Hz with EQ, that's about it.

Nice.
Where are you crossing to subs? Also have you experimented with different toe-in? Right now, do you have them aimed at the main listening position? Have you tried crossing them in front of you?


Added

Never mind, I see you said 80hz. Will they go that low in room?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5  /t/1530592/thinking-about-a-raal-in-a-waveguide/30#post_24708720


Nice.
Where are you crossing to subs? Also have you experimented with different toe-in? Right now, do you have them aimed at the main listening position? Have you tried crossing them in front of you?

Crossover is at 80Hz, can't cross lower then that without lifting with EQ.


I'm gonna try some more toe-in's. Right now they are aimed at the main listening position just like you said.

They sounded very harsh (correct word?) at first, but then I measured them with REW and found the peak at 1300Hz. It was from the AE TD12M:s. With that one taken care of they sound so good



I measured 112dBA at listening position (3 meters) the other day and about 120dBC with subs. Enough for me
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasW  /t/1530592/thinking-about-a-raal-in-a-waveguide/30#post_24708759


Crossover is at 80Hz, can't cross lower then that without lifting with EQ.


I'm gonna try some more toe-in's. Right now they are aimed at the main listening position just like you said.

They sounded very harsh (correct word?) at first, but then I measured them with REW and found the peak at 1300Hz. It was from the AE TD12M:s. With that one taken care of they sound so good



I measured 112dBA at listening position (3 meters) the other day and about 120dBC with subs. Enough for me

Fantastic project! Very nice cabinets. We did two layers all the way around on our monitors too. Inside layer of plywood and outside MDF.


I would recommend you to try to cross even a little higher to the TPL. You may find that some residual harshness is coming from it playing so low and only 12dB/oct. After many months of tweaking at the studio, we settled on 1,800hz as our crossover point. Yeah, technically it's too high to take a 12" driver, but with steep slopes(48dB/oct), the transition region at crossover does not have too bad of a dip. Also, playing with small amounts of delay added to the TPL helped. The delay basically moves the acoustic center of the TPL back to better match the TD12M.


Greg
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp  /t/1530592/thinking-about-a-raal-in-a-waveguide/30#post_24708587


could this speaker play at reference level for movies cleanly?

Very easily. These are in the sensitivity range of PA/sound reinforcement speakers, so movies at ref level is a breeze.


Greg
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5  /t/1530592/thinking-about-a-raal-in-a-waveguide/30#post_24708720


Never mind, I see you said 80hz. Will they go that low in room?

They begin to fall just over 100Hz, but when you add the subwoofers it's a great crossover in my room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbegland  /t/1530592/thinking-about-a-raal-in-a-waveguide/30#post_24708900


Fantastic project! Very nice cabinets. We did two layers all the way around on our monitors too. Inside layer of plywood and outside MDF.


I would recommend you to try to cross even a little higher to the TPL. You may find that some residual harshness is coming from it playing so low and only 12dB/oct. After many months of tweaking at the studio, we settled on 1,800hz as our crossover point. Yeah, technically it's too high to take a 12" driver, but with steep slopes(48dB/oct), the transition region at crossover does not have too bad of a dip. Also, playing with small amounts of delay added to the TPL helped. The delay basically moves the acoustic center of the TPL back to better match the TD12M.


Greg

Thanks!


I will try other crossovers for the TPL. I have 4 memories on the 10x10hd so I can program 4 scenarios and switch in a few secs to compare them.


Great tips!
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by gbegland  /t/1530592/thinking-about-a-raal-in-a-waveguide/30#post_24708900


Fantastic project! Very nice cabinets. We did two layers all the way around on our monitors too. Inside layer of plywood and outside MDF.


I would recommend you to try to cross even a little higher to the TPL. You may find that some residual harshness is coming from it playing so low and only 12dB/oct. After many months of tweaking at the studio, we settled on 1,800hz as our crossover point. Yeah, technically it's too high to take a 12" driver, but with steep slopes(48dB/oct), the transition region at crossover does not have too bad of a dip. Also, playing with small amounts of delay added to the TPL helped. The delay basically moves the acoustic center of the TPL back to better match the TD12M.


Greg

How much delay are we talking here? Thank you for the info you have provided.


Mike
 
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