[porshah]

Hello,


I have the new Anthem AVM30 Pre/Pro, and am currently in the market for a new Universal DVD/CD player. My Anthem has the abilitity to perform full bass management for DVD-A and SACD. I am curious if it is better to get a Universal player that has bass management built in or save the money and let the Pre/Pro handle it? The top contenders for me are, Denon 2910 and 3910. The video quality of the two is equal, but the 3910 seems to have full bass management for DVD-A and SACD.


Any thoughts?


Thanks,

Jay

 

[Ovation]

My receiver does BM/TA on its multichannel inputs and I let it handle those chores. If your final choices are the two Denons, and you're satisfied the PQ is the same, I'd go with the 2910, so long as the audio quality is the same to you. Even though your pre/pro will handle BM, the quality of the audio it it fed will have some bearing on the final sound.

 

[hometheaterguy]

A prepro may be more flexible for BM. You would have to compare the quality of the DAC in both the player and prepro.

 

[porshah]

I am leaning more towards the 3910. I have heard very good things about it. From what I have read, the audio is better on the 3910. As for BM, I guess I will have to experiment to see if it sounds better using the Pre/Pro. I am certain the DAC in my Anthem are better. Thanks for your input.

 

[sivadselim]

you're aware that, unless you have a firewire or i-link connection, bm'ing sacd/dvda at the pre/pro will entail another a/d>d/a conversion.


whether this is really undesirable or not has never been clear to me, though.

 

[rynberg]

You do NOT want the pre/pro to perform the bass management from DVD-A/SACD when using analog connections, if you can help it. This will entail an entire A-D/D-A process, which will degrade the sound.


If you really think the D/A section in your pre/pro is better than the one in the DVD player, AND the pre/pro can perform BM with DVD-A/SACD, then you have to use a digital connection (Firewire). AFAIK, the Anthem doesn't have Firewire but will at the end of the year.


Until then, you'll want the DVD player to do it and leave the analog signal unmolested through the Anthem.

 

[Tolstoi]

You want to avoid like hell an additional ADC/DAC conversion of your analog input. The only good reason to perform base management in the Pre/Pro is if you want to perform fancy room equalization which is also something to avoid if you are a music lover.


Bass management should only be performed in the Pre/Pro when you are able to pass the info on digital format from the Player to the Pre/Pro and when the Pre/Pro DAC beat the player DAC. This is the case only with high-end processor.


Taking all that into consideration, I came to an interesting question, why bother with a pre/pro when a good player will do most of the job. If you don't want to convert your stereo sources into fake multi-channel outputs (such as performed by Dolby DPL II) you don’t need a pre/pro. Why bother with a Pre/Pro if we need to use it in analog bypass for most of the material.


A multiplayer such as the 3910 will perform proper processing for most of the sources. Therefore, the only thing required is a good quality multi-channel Preamp such as the Audio Refinement Pre5.


Having the 3910 would provide you with the flexibility of being able to live without a Pre/Pro.


Benoit

 

[sivadselim]

Quote:

Bass management should only be performed in the Pre/Pro when you are able to pass the info on digital format from the Player to the Pre/Pro and when the Pre/Pro DAC beat the player DAC. This is the case only with high-end processor.

i think that porshah is trying to find a way around the limitations of the fixed single crossover point in the 2910.

Quote:

Taking all that into consideration, I came to an interesting question, why bother with a pre/pro when a good player will do most of the job. If you don't want to convert your stereo sources into fake multi-channel outputs (such as performed by Dolby DPL II) you don’t need a pre/pro. Why bother with a Pre/Pro if we need to use it in analog bypass for most of the material. A multiplayer such as the 3910 will perform proper processing for most of the sources. Therefore, the only thing required is a good quality multi-channel Preamp such as the Audio Refinement Pre5. Having the 3910 would provide you with the flexibility of being able to live without a Pre/Pro.

yep. except for cable television, i do all my decoding at my player and run my receiver in it's "pure" mode.


someone interested in 6.1 or 7.1 sound would still need the ability to decode the digital bitstream at their pre/pro/receiver, though, btw.

 

[porshah]

Yes that was my original intent. If I got the 2910 which has fixed crossover point.


When I read the literature for the AVM20 (which is pretty close to the AVM30), and here is the quote:

"Surround-sound processors now generally have a 6-channel Direct Analog input to accomodate multichannel DVD-Audio and SACD players. With other SSPs, however, this input is only an analog pass-through, which means no sound management is performed-that must be left to the player itself, which is problematic. DVD-Audio and SACD players are woefully inadequate when it comes to their sound management. If they have bass management at all, they typically only have a single fixed crossover point. The AVM20 is unique in that its analog-to-digital converters operate on all channels of the DVD-Audio/SACD 6-Channel input. With the 6-Channel input set to Analog-DSP(factory default) the AVM 20 then provides comprehensive digital sound management which include: Sophisticated Bass Management plus Advanced Settings, Time Alignement for Listener Position, Bass and Treble Controls, Audio Group Delay,..."


I will mainly use this player for DVD Video/Audio and SACD only. I have a Proceed CD Transport for redbook CD's.

 

[sdurani]

Jay,


Ideally, you'd want to pipe SACD and DVD-A streams digitally into your AVM-30 and have it do all the processing and then a one-time D/A conversion. Even if a hi-rez digital interface did show up today for your processor, you'd still have to convert SACD signals to PCM because your processor doesn't have A/D converters for DSD signals. But since you don't have a digital connection for hi-rez audio, you have to deal with the analog signal from your player. This means you have to compromise somewhere.


You can leave the signal in the analog domain and simply send it to your amps, whereby your AVM-30 becomes a multi-channel volume control. The bass management and time alignment of the signal would be done in the player, and you would maintain the full resolution of the original signal. That's the upside. The downside is that players usually don't have the flexibility of pre-pros, even when it comes to things like bass management and time alignment.


If I were in your situation, I'd use the AVM-30 to re-digitize the incoming analog signals; which is what Meridian, Lexicon and Mark Levinson processors do. The downside is that no A/D-D/A conversion is 100% transparent. The question is: how much degredation will you hear, if any at all. Since you already have the AVM-30, try listening to a 2-channel source in Analog Bypass and then via your processor's A/D-D/A. If the difference is negligible enough for you to live with, then the upside is significant because having the signal in the digital domain has lots of advantages. Follow:


Having the signal in the digital domain will allow you use the AVM-30's bass management and time alignment features, which are quite good. Further, these settings will remain consistent for ALL sources; i.e., you won't have Anthem bass management & time alignment for DD, DTS and PCM sources while having Denon's bass management & time aligment for SACD and DVD-A. Since your speakers aren't going to change from source to source, there's no reason your bass management and time alignment should. Dial in the AVM-30's bass management based on the capabilities of your speakers, and you're done. Besides, you're not going to find the Anthem's subwoofer polarity and phase control on the Denon player.


Unless you have some reason to be a slave to the delivery format (2-channel sources = 2 speakers, 5.1-channel sources = 5.1 speakers, etc), you'll find it handy to have the option to use surround processing. I don't know if you've tried Anthem Logic or PLII music modes, but both do a good job of extracting ambience from in front of you and placing it around you (as you would hear it when you listen to live music). Anthem Logic is the more passive (and subtle) of the two processes, though PLII can be adjusted to suit your personal tastes. In my experience, both sound better than having your room supply the spacial/ambience cues.


Speaking of your room: converting incoming analog signals to digital will allow you to take advantage of any room correction/EQ capabilities that Anthem currently has and may provide down the line. Having heard room correction on Meridian and Lexicon processors, I found them to be very useful. The main thing they did was minimize the room's interference, thereby allowing you to hear more of the sound of the speakers and source material. This is more noticeable on well recorded live music; the less you hear of your listening space, the more you'll hear (and appreciate) the recording space in the source material. Even something as simple as the AVM-30's notch filter can be extremely usefull in killing a room resonance that would normally obscure the clarity of the music. The Denon player doesn't have anything close to that.


You've got an excellent pre-pro, with features that can really help you get the best out of music recordings. It's up to you whether you want to take advantages of those features or use the pre-pro as a multi-channel volume control. It depends on what's more important to you: the recording or the music.


Best,

Sanjay