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Discussion Starter #102
Arrowverse Crossover Pushed to 2021, Downsized to 'Smaller' Event Featuring Superman & Lois and Batwoman

The CW’s next superhero gathering will be a more intimate affair — and it won’t take place this year.

The network’s annual Arrowverse crossover event “will not happen in December, but it will happen, hopefully, first or second quarter of 2021,” CW Chairman & CEO Mark Pedowitz told reporters Thursday during a conference call for the 2020-21 TV season (view new schedule here).

The upcoming crossover will also be smaller in scope than the recent “Crisis on Infinite Earths” five-show spectacle that aired this past season. “It will be a smaller event than usual,” Pedowitz shared. “We’re only planning a two-hour event. We’re talking about doing Superman [& Lois] and Batwoman together, with a lot of characters coming [in] from our other shows.” The crossover will likely air as a two-hour block on a Sunday, Pedowitz added.

Arrowverse EP Marc Guggenheim previously told TVLine the next crossover would not be a massive team-up, explaining, “Marvel didn’t follow up Endgame with Endgame 2; you’ve got to build to an event of this kind. The one thing we’re all in agreement on… is that we’re not going to go as big next year. In fact, Mark [Pedowitz] and I were talking about ‘returning to the roots’ of our crossovers, and I’ll leave it to people to interpret what that means.”

The crossover news comes as The CW has delayed the official launch of its new season until 2021, as a result of the global coronavirus outbreak that has shut down TV production. The Arrowverse spinoff Superman & Lois, starring Tyler Hoechlin and Elizabeth Tulloch as the iconic couple, has landed the Tuesdays-at-9/8c timeslot after The Flash, while Batwoman will continue to air Sundays at 8 pm.

https://tvline.com/2020/05/14/arrowverse-crossover-superman-batwoman-2021/
 

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Discussion Starter #103
Batwoman Boss Talks About Ending Season With That Bat-tastic Reveal, Supergirl 'Cameo' That Didn't Happen

The CW’s Batwoman, despite having to end its season earlier than planned, served up some major twists (and one wild reveal) with its freshman finale.

In the name of neutralizing a hometown football hero who had been victimized by falsified brain scans and become a machetes-swinging brute immune to pain, Batwoman suggested to Commander Kane that they combined forces. But after doing so, as the lights popped back on at a blacked-out football stadium, Batwoman realized that the Crows had surrounded her. And then they attempted to riddle her with bullets, though the Scarlet Knight managed to grapple away to safety (as she does).

Elsewhere: Upon learning that the only known bit of Batsuit-defeating kryptonite had been left with the late Lucius Fox and thus seems irretrievable, Mouse urged Alice to move on and leave town with him. Alice agreed, and even ceremonially burned her Alice in Wonderland book… but in actuality poisoned Mouse, tearfully choosing her vendetta over her brother. Alice later gifted Tommy aka Hush with a face that was not so much “new” but quite familiar, in that he now looks exactly like Gotham’s favorite son, the MIA Bruce Wayne!

TVLine spoke with Batwoman showrunner about that “accidentally” thrilling cliffhanger and much more.

TVLINE | Among other things, of course, I feel like we just watched a major turning point for Alice. A line has been crossed.

Yes, it really has. Mouse gave her a very clear ultimatum, and Alice from five episodes ago may have made a different decision. But when she has vengeance in her sights, nothing is stopping her.

TVLINE | That was a heartbreaking scene. Great work from both of them (Rachel Skarsten and Sam Littlefield).

Yeah, they were so good in that scene. It was very moving. I was feeling badly for Alice even though I’m like, “You did this, girl!”

TVLINE | I feel as if Jacob, too, has crossed a line. He was looking borderline obsessed with Batwoman in his final scene….
I refer to this episode as “Jacob Wakes Up in a Very Bad Mood.” We’ve seen glimmers of it before, and it ended up being a nice mirror to the pilot. We touched on it earlier in the season, his disdain for Batman and his now-growing disdain for Batwoman. It came to a head in this episode, and it’s a good “ending” for their dynamic.

TVLINE | When Sophie ran out onto the football field, I thought she might yell out, “No! She’s your daughter!” But that’s probably not her secret to tell.

[Laughs] Yeah, I think we would have liked Sophie in the moment, but then found a way to hate her for blowing Kate’s secret.

TVLINE | Turning to “Bruce Wayne,” you have to be very satisfied with the accidental season-ending cliffhanger you left us with.

I know! We are really so lucky. The fact is if we had broken [the season] off at [last week’s] Episode 19, or [the unfilmed] Episode 21, we would have had the same feeling, because we try to end all of our shows with an intense cliffhanger. I would have maybe tried to done a little bit more, cliffhanger-wise, with a romance, but I think we made good headway with Sophie and Julia, and teeing up that their relationship is about to get more complicated.

TVLINE | We knew that in the comic books Hush at times wears Bruce Wayne’s face, but I think the other surprise here — unless you spotted his name in the credits, as I did — is that it’s Warren Christie (Alphas, Motive). Which is such perfect casting.

Oh my gosh, he’s such a good actor. He’s been in some of the shows that I have watched, and when I saw his name come up in our casting sessions, I was like, “Um, hello! Yes, obviously.” And then when I met him, for some reason I was holding the blueprints of the Batcave, so I was like, “Oh, let me show you the Batcave! Here’s where this is, here’s where this is….” We were geeking out over it together.

TVLINE | Now remind me — Bruce has been truly missing for several years. Luke couldn’t find him, and he’s never been presumed dead per se.

Correct, he is just MIA. Luke had a little moment in Episode 3 where Kate is like, “Luke, do you really think Bruce is coming back?” and Luke had to say, “No.” In his mind, I think he’s put it to bed, so this is obviously going to open up all of those stories in his life when he comes face to face with his hero.

TVLINE | What sort of challenges might Tommy face passing as Bruce? Or does he know his longtime rival that well he will kind of skate through?

Well, there couldn’t have been a better person to impersonate Bruce. He’s going to have “the Bruce Wayne experience” — he’s not going to waste a moment of his new lifestyle. But he will face obvious obstacles because the people Bruce surrounds himself with are cunning and wise, and they’ve seen antics like this before. Their guards will be up.

TVLINE | And Tommy does know that Bruce was Batman.

Yes, Tommy does know that Bruce is Batman, and he does know that Kate is Batwoman. That was a story point that we actually didn’t dramatize, but we articulated it at some point.

TVLINE | Have we seen the last of Gabriel Mann as Tommy?

Not necessarily. Nope. He is so fun to work with…. I don’t have anything really in my mind planned, but when you meet a good actor, you find a way to keep working with them.

TVLINE | Other shows on The CW seem to have ended their abbreviated seasons with 19 episodes. Did you just barely get 20 done? Did it take some crafty moves?

We honestly just got a little bit lucky. When I saw the writing on the wall and saw that production would be shutting down, our last day was the Alice/Mouse storyline, and I was like, “As long as we get this in the can, we have an episode.” It’s an important storyline. We ended up dropping only one day of shooting, the way our schedule fell ahead of the pandemic. Losing one day of shooting sucks — I would have loved to have had those scenes in there — but at the end of the day we had a really solid episode.

TVLINE | Your two uncompleted episodes, do think you will keep them intact over the long hiatus? Or might you get restless and tinker…?

When you are a writer and you have time on your hands, you start tinkering and tinkering…. I’m otherwise just sitting around on my iPad reading comic books, so I get a lot of ideas. The one thing writers don’t ever have is time, so when they get it, they think about making changes.

TVLINE | How would you categorize your planned ending for the season, at the end of Episode 22? Would it have been a twist about what was saw in Season 1, or was it a big fat tease for Season 2?

It was a pretty epic cliffhanger, and a huge crisis for the Bat-team. We are still going to use a lot of that, because it’s also a great launch for the season. It works either way.

TVLINE | When Kate told Luke and Mary that she needs Supergirl’s OK to part with her bit of kryptonite, that, combined with the “Previously On…,” had me thinking Kara might show up.

Well, here is one of the COVID setbacks. The frame that Kate swipes the kryptonite out of, that was supposed to be a picture of Kara and Kate. When I saw the cut it said, “INSERT PICTURE OF KARA & KATE.” I was like, “Guys, why is this still in the cut?” They said, “We can’t go and shoot a picture of them together, we’re on lockdown.” So that was kind of a bummer, because I wanted to show that Kate had a picture of Kara in her library, because they’re friends.

TVLINE | Will Kara appear on-screen next season, to give Kate her blessing?

I don’t think so. The way that the Supergirl production schedule is laying out, it doesn’t really line up with ours. We’re just going to have to imply it somehow.

TVLINE | What sequence or episode from Season 1 are you most proud of?

I really liked Batwoman coming out [in Episode 10], and I really liked the train sequence in that episode…. I really appreciate all the stunts that we did, because we tried to make them all feel a bit different. Yes, Batwoman seems to be grappling here and there, coming and going, but we always tried to give a different spin to it. Like in Episode 17, she goes through the spiral staircase, which is really neat. And I really liked the Arkham fight sequence [in Episode 19], which was kind of a one-r which was wide…. In [director] James Bamford’s episode, he had really cool stunts there, and one of the ones I had wanted to do was that Matrix move where the grappling gun is coming at Kate and she bends backwards; I think that turned out well. I’m just really, really proud of our stunts department.

TVLINE | Any last tease about Season 2 (slated to premiere in January 2021)?

It will start from a really shocking place, and continue to be that way as we go.

https://tvline.com/2020/05/17/batwoman-recap-season-1-episode-20-finale-o-mouse/
 

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Ruby Rose Quits Batwoman; Role Will Be Recast Ahead of Season 2

“I have made the very difficult decision to not return to Batwoman next season,” Rose said in a statement. “This was not a decision I made lightly as I have the utmost respect for the cast, crew and everyone involved with the show in both Vancouver and in Los Angeles...

https://tvline.com/2020/05/19/ruby-rose-leaving-batwoman-season-2-recast/
 

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As I posted earlier in this thread, Ruby Rose's acting was one of my least favorite aspects of this show (though I liked her in OITNB) and why I stopped watching after about the fourth episode. I may come back if I like the new person and just watch a season 1 recap on YouTube.
 

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Recasting the lead will be a show-killer. There's really no point in continuing. Once production is safe to resume, the producers should try to convince Rose to return for a wrap-up movie to resolve the first season storyline and just end the show there.
 

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Recasting the lead will be a show-killer. There's really no point in continuing. Once production is safe to resume, the producers should try to convince Rose to return for a wrap-up movie to resolve the first season storyline and just end the show there.
Not sure how that would make financial sense for Warner Bros. or Greg Berlanti.

The whole show/season seemed 'off' to me and perhaps this is part of the reason. It felt miscast. Rose seemed out of her depth from the very first scene. A recast would at least peak my interest to give it another look and see how they steer this thing forward.
 
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Recasting the lead will be a show-killer. There's really no point in continuing. Once production is safe to resume, the producers should try to convince Rose to return for a wrap-up movie to resolve the first season storyline and just end the show there.
first impression I got after hearing this was that she was given the boot but everyone involved with the show agreed to spin it as her 'quitting'...seems like a lot of fans were not happy with her performance in the lead role...a lead actress actually quitting a role after 1 season is very rare
 

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first impression I got after hearing this was that she was given the boot but everyone involved with the show agreed to spin it as her 'quitting'...seems like a lot of fans were not happy with her performance in the lead role...a lead actress actually quitting a role after 1 season is very rare
What the "fans" were actually unhappy with was the network allowing an out lesbian actress to star in a TV show, much less to exist at all without being stoned to death, which was one of the milder things she was threatened with on social media.

In addition to the harassment, Rose suffered a serious back injury doing a stunt for the show and nearly severed her spinal cord. Her quitting is most likely related to that.

Anyway, how many TV series have survived recasting the lead? Doctor Who, I suppose, but identity changing is built into the concept there. Beyond that, it almost never works out.
 

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What the "fans" were actually unhappy with was the network allowing an out lesbian actress to star in a TV show, much less to exist at all without being stoned to death, which was one of the milder things she was threatened with on social media.

In addition to the harrassment, Rose suffered a serious back injury doing a stunt for the show and nearly severed her spinal cord. Her quitting is most likely related to that.

Anyway, how many TV series have survived recasting the lead? Doctor Who, I suppose, but identity changing is built into the concept there. Beyond that, it almost never works out.
I also didnt like her much and it has nothing to do with being an outed lesbian. Looking forward to a recast.

If you read the article, it specifically says that back injury was *not* a factor in the decision.
 

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I also didnt like her much and it has nothing to do with being an outed lesbian. Looking forward to a recast.
That's fair enough. Nevertheless, she received a ton of homophobic harassment on social media, which is where most of the negative impression against her came from.

If you read the article, it specifically says that back injury was *not* a factor in the decision.
Which article are you referring to? That's not what it says in the TV Line article linked in post 105.

Edit: OK, I see that Deadline claims it wasn't about the injury, rather that Rose was unhappy with the long hours and other demands of making a weekly TV series and the crew didn't like her.

https://deadline.com/2020/05/ruby-rose-exits-batwoman-dc-the-cw-series-to-recast-iconic-lead-role-season-2-shocker-shakeup-1202938863/
 

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Babylon 5?
They brought in Bruce Boxleitner, but he didn't take over an existing role, did he? He played a new character. Likewise when David Caruso left NYPD Blue and Jimmy Smits came in. That sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.

But this show is going to cast a new actress to play the same lead character. That almost never works out.

I almost feel like the show should write out Kate Kane and promote the Julia Pennyworth character to take over as a new Batwoman. That could work, but it would still be best if Ruby Rose came back for one more episode to make that transition. Dismissing the character off-camera would be super awkward.

"Where's Kate?"
"Oh yeah, she uhhhh, decided to go travel the world for a while. Hey, do you think you could take over as Batwoman for her?"
 

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I guess the silver lining is that Ruby Rose was so generic in the role that her successor won’t have to live up to some high standard. If she had imparted some quirky humor or character trait to the part, the replacement would be judged against that. If anything, the complaint might be that the new Kate Kane will be too perky or animated instead of sulky and brooding.

And I’m sure the writers will throw some inside jokes about the change. “Kate, you look different. Did you change your hairstyle?”
 

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I guess the silver lining is that Ruby Rose was so generic in the role that her successor won’t have to live up to some high standard. If she had imparted some quirky humor or character trait to the part, the replacement would be judged against that. If anything, the complaint might be that the new Kate Kane will be too perky or animated instead of sulky and brooding.
Being sulky and brooding has been the dominant trait of the entire Bat franchise ever since Frank Miller wrote The Dark Knight Returns in 1986. Attempts to lighten the tone since then, such as the Joel Schumacher fiascos, haven't gone well.
 

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The articles are saying they want to recast with an LGBTQ actor, so if they don't mind a relative nobody, maybe look no further than Natalie Liconti (IMDb profile), currently playing Sterling in CW's In the Dark. She definitely looks like she can handle the physical side of a superhero's role, has great eyes that will pop under a mask, and she's already had a small role in DC's Titans. And since acting ability clearly wasn't a consideration in the original casting of Ruby Rose, what do they have to lose if she doesn't have the acting chops either.

 

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Being sulky and brooding has been the predominant trait of the entire Bat franchise ever since Frank Miller wrote The Dark Knight Returns in 1986. Attempts to lighten the tone since then, such as the Joel Schumacher fiascos, haven't gone well.
In the first few episodes of this season I saw, Ruby Rose didn't really pull off brooding or sulking well either—just bland. Maybe she got it down later in the series.
 

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What the "fans" were actually unhappy with was the network allowing an out lesbian actress to star in a TV show, much less to exist at all without being stoned to death, which was one of the milder things she was threatened with on social media.

In addition to the harassment, Rose suffered a serious back injury doing a stunt for the show and nearly severed her spinal cord. Her quitting is most likely related to that.

Anyway, how many TV series have survived recasting the lead? Doctor Who, I suppose, but identity changing is built into the concept there. Beyond that, it almost never works out.
All the CW shows cater to the gay community. You can't watch a single show of anything without being forced to see guys kiss each other or the same with girls. I doubt casting one lesbian over the multiple other gay people on all the other CW shows made a bit of difference.
 

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What the "fans" were actually unhappy with was the network allowing an out lesbian actress to star in a TV show, much less to exist at all without being stoned to death, which was one of the milder things she was threatened with on social media.
If this is what doomed her fate, then the "fans" are going to be in for a big disappointment since Greg Berlanti has already stated that they are committed to recasting the role with an actor from the LGBTQ community. Those comments were not from fans, just intolerable individuals.

Rose just didn't have the heft and/or acting chops to carry a DC Superhero show that Warner and Berlanti would like to see have a 5 to 7 season run. Kudos to them for acknowledging that and giving an iconic DC Comics character another shot with a new lead actor.
 
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