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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I bought a Denon AVR-1905 receiver to match to Ascend CBM-170 bookshelves a few months back. I love the sound they give for movies, but my love is listening to music in 2.1. So......here's my problem. I find that something about this combination leaves me wishing my speakers had more midbass and midrange presence. The combination is very accurate, but kind of has a hollow sound. I know that denon's aren't the warmest of receivers, and that the Ascend bookshelves are VERY neutral or even a bit on the bright side to some. Is this combination doomed to lack warmth? Would it be a better idea to change speakers or my AVR? Also, for the ascend guys, would switching to the 340's for mains give me more of what I want? I'm pretty aggravated, since I'm a college student I don't have the money to just go switch out everything. Let me hear your ideas. Thanks guys. Also, feel free to suggest some warmer sounding bookshelves or receivers.
 

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if your going to use 80Hz on the receiver, I've been told by many to crank the crossover on your sub to max so you use the crossover on the amp.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by amb7247
if your going to use 80Hz on the receiver, I've been told by many to crank the crossover on your sub to max so you use the crossover on the amp.
I can try this too. I still think the setup is just too laid back though and hollow sounding. I don't want piercing treble, but I do like punchy mids.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Also, this becomes more noticeable at higher volumes. My denon AVR is SUPPOSED to put out 75 watts X 7 Channels. At -20 dB would this start to push the AVR too hard and also cause thinness to the sound? Are the claims of 75 watts X 7 even accurate? Would an Harmon Kardon AVR 335 work better for me?
 

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by the spec'd measurements, the cbm-170 is not lacking from 60Hz to 20kHz. it's a very balanced monitor. you've already mentioned the desire to seek a warmer sounding bookshelf, and your preference for punchy mids so i would submit that there's a good chance you do prefer a different sound.


what sub do you have? simply try 100Hz x/o assuming your sub level is already hot. is that getting closer to your preference? do you run the denon receiver tone flat? how far are you from the speakers when listening and how far apart are the speakers from each other? what music is lacking the mid bass punch you prefer? have you calibrated anything with an SPL meter?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The subwoofer is a velodyne vrp-1000. Not the best, but not terrible. It's not the region up to the 80Hz x-over point that has left me wanting more though. It's probably the mid-bass and more the midrange regions. I love the highs and the very highest midrange frequencies on the CBM's, they are smooth as hell. It's just the rest that seems to MY ears to fall flat (music being subjective of course). I use the direct mode on the denon, so there is no equalization. Whatever signal it gets is the signal it gives to the speakers. I'm 8 ft from the speakers and the speakers are 6 ft apart in a 10ft wide room. I live in an apartment and my equipment is in my bedroom, so I can't move things around too much. The spl meter- what can I do to try to change the sound once I get the readings? I don't have a multi ban equalizer. Thanks for the in depth response.


Justin
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by freejus
At -20 dB would this start to push the AVR too hard and also cause thinness to the sound?
-20 db is not a heavy load for Denon, I think you should try the setup again as metalaaron's recommend



Quote:
Originally Posted by freejus
Are the claims of 75 watts X 7 even accurate? Would an Harmon Kardon AVR 335 work better for me?
Denon power consumption = 540 VA (486W at 0.9 power factor), output = 75x7 = 525 W

H/K 335 power consumption = 890 W, output = 55x5 = 275 W

It seem that h/k has more backup power than Denon. For Denon input power less than output, I'm not think that the 75x7 W is accurate.





I think that Denon is a little bit too bright for my ear, I had audited it many times with various speakers. You should try to adjust EQ first, because this is the cheapest way.


Good Luck,

Pal
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well at -20dB I can hear a change in the fullness of the sound. At near reference levels it becomes quite distorted.


I'm also going to fool with the settings tomorrow, but there's not much equalization to adjust in 2 channel mode.


I may end up selling this receiver and trying to get a HK 335. Also, what I like is that the HK's put out more power per channel when in 2 channel mode as opposed to having all channels driven. I've heard HK undermines the true power anyways. Have you personally heard any HK receivers and noticed a more warm and full sound?


I appreciate your patience, I may not know everything on the technical side, but I know what my ears like :)
 

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freejus


your desire for good music may not be fulfilled if you use the receiver and dvd player


try hook up your speakers with a dedicated 2 channel amp and cd player you will notice huge difference in musicality
 

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I am 95% music and 5% movie/gaming and I could not listen to any receiver that was less than $1500 without cringing. They just sounded "unfulfilling" to my ears.


When I moved to a $350 Cambridge Audio Azure 540A, this integrated amp openned the music up (compared to the cheaper receivers). Now, running on Rotel 1070 separates, my music is just phenominal.


Depending on your budget and amount you do movies, you could get a $350-$400 integrated amp from Cambridge Audio or NAD (both are great) and keep the Denon for movies, or move on to some other receiver.
 

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I agree with the opinion on separates for 2 channel application: they make a huge difference compared to a receiver. And this is coming from my experience with Rotel: I switched from Rotel RX-1052 stereo receiver to Rotel RC-1070 pre amp and Rotel RB-1080 power amp (both 2 channel) and noticed a great improvement. My speakers are Axiom M60ti.
 

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Freejus,


Have you played around with the placement of your 170's.... distance from walls, toe, height, to see if that helps elimanate the problems you are having when listening to 2.1?
 

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Get larger speakers, they arent big enough for full range listening.


Get some 340s or even larger.... and the lower they go Hz wise, the better.
 

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Upgrading to the 340s isn't going to change the flat response and neutral nature of the Ascend line. What you put in is what you will get out of the Ascends. Change your amp or find some speakers that have a mid-bass bump as that seems to be what you like.


"Well at -20dB I can hear a change in the fullness of the sound. At near reference levels it becomes quite distorted."


Have you used a sound meter to set reference "0" to 75dB? I can take my 170s over 95dB before distortion sets in.
 

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From reading the posts, it looks as though you have not calibrated the subwoofer and speaker output. Is this correct? Also, is the crossover on the sub set high enough so it is not coming into play and only the crossover on the receiver is being used?


How does the system sound if you run the speakers as large without a sub?


Good luck.
 

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Another thought, if you're using a dvd player some have their own distance settings and bass management. Have you double checked those setting?
 
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