[imagic]

Behringer Eurolive B215XL 15" 2-Way as L/R Mains

I recently posted a review of my new L/R mains, a pair of Behringer B215XL speakers. I ran a search here on AVS and found very little information about those speakers. The thread I found was three years old and very short.

Evidently the low price and the PA (public address) speaker designation dissuaded people from considering the Behringers for home use. However, over the past year I've heard a lot of different speakers, including DIY SEOS builds and a broad array of commercial speakers, from $100/pair up to $150,000/pair. Overall, speakers I liked the most had a lot more in common with the Behringer B215XLs than typical dome tweeter-based speakers aimed at consumers.

When I went to the AVS GTGs, after hearing a few nice 2-way speakers with compression-driver horn tweeters, I'd think to myself "could a molded plastic PA speaker give me the sound I craved in a more manageable package?" Mark Henninger's B215XL review

I was confident the Behringer B215XL would perform well in my system, they are 8 Ohm, 96 dB efficient, and handle 250 watts RMS—a great match for my Pioneer Elite SC-55 receiver. My experience with other Behringer products amounts to a grudging recognition that the company's aggressively priced pro audio gear is quite musical. I decided to take the plunge and buy a pair.

I'm currently on my fifth day with the B215XLs acting as my mains. I suspect they will serve that purpose for some time because it's really hard to find fault in them. Yesterday I even got goosebumps while listening to Metallic Spheres, a collaboration between The Orb and David Gilmour. I'm really enjoying everything I listen to through them, be it rock, rap, classical, or electronic music. Movies are even better, each time I watched one I forgot about the speakers altogether.

I planned on a much longer integration, with perhaps a bit of tweaking, before I was happy with my new speakers. That never happened; the B215s were so good out-of-the-box, I positioned them, ran MCACC on my SC-55, and measured the results with REW (Room EQ WIzard software for PC). The resulting setup sounds exceptional and measures flat at my listening position (+/- 3dB) from 80Hz to 17 kHz. Subwoofers take care of the low end and old age makes the rolloff at the high end irrelevant—I can only hear up to about 17 kHz. The speakers have so much headroom, it's easy to EQ them to extend both the bass and the treble response. However, I found that the only EQ they needed was a 3dB bump at 20 kHz, to counter a bit of roll-off at the very top.

I built my own 2-way speakers a couple years ago, but considering the value the B215s represent it's unlikely that I'll ever embark on another DIY speaker build. Before I got into DIY tweaking, I used to have a pair of B-52 LX1515 speaker, which were way too big for my home theater and (for various reasons) didn't sound nearly as good as the Behringers.

I feel really good about buying the Behringer B215XLs. In fact, next time there is an AVS get-together where members compare different speakers, I'll jump on it. My guess is the B215XLs will hold their own against significantly pricier competition.

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[10dbdown]


Nice review of the Behringer B215xl speakers. The post should say 96 db efficient as in your review otherwise one would think the speakers are not a easy load for a receiver. Several companies are using horns with compression drivers for pro audio and pro cinema: JBL, QSC, JTR speakers, EAW, Danley.  Several AVS members are using these types of speakers for HT and music.  Like you, they seem satisfied with the performance when crossed over to a sub woofer.

 

[imagic]



Quote:
Originally Posted by 10dbdown  /t/1519940/behringer-b215xl-as-l-r-mains#post_24412564


Nice review of the Behringer B215xl speakers. The post should say 96 db efficient as in your review otherwise one would think the speakers are not a easy load for a receiver. Several companies are using horns with compression drivers for pro audio and pro cinema: JBL, QSC, JTR speakers, EAW, Danley.  Several AVS members are using these types of speakers for HT and music.  Like you, they seem satisfied with the performance when crossed over to a sub woofer.

Good catch, thank you.

 

[jeonunh]

I've certainly never considered using DJ speakers, but some interesting points are made. They certainly aren't the most visually appealing speakers I've ever seen, but in my case they would be hidden behind an AT screen anyway. For the price it's tempting to give them a try, but I think I'll wait for some more feedback from other users. They are way to big to buy if I decided I don't like them. No way I could hide them from the wife unless I left them behind the screen wall permanently.

 

[mhutchins]

Nice review , Mark. The B215's look similar to what I am listening to right now!



AT screen removed to show what's behind the curtain...



The vast majority of the L-C-R builds going on over in the DIY Audio section are large woofers mated to a compression driver / waveguide combo. High efficiency, controlled directivity and awesome sound is the name of the game. The value factor is a huge benefit as well.


Come on in, the water's fine!!

 

[imagic]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mhutchins  /t/1519940/behringer-b215xl-as-l-r-mains#post_24413307


Nice review , Mark. The B215's look similar to what I am listening to right now!



AT screen removed to show what's behind the curtain...



The vast majority of the L-C-R builds going on over in the DIY Audio section are large woofers mated to a compression driver / waveguide combo. High efficiency, controlled directivity and awesome sound is the name of the game. The value factor is a huge benefit as well.


Come on in, the water's fine!!

 

I couldn't agree more, whether you DIY it or buy it. Compression driver horn tweeters and nice big woofer go together well.

 

[jw87c]

What is the crossover freq. set by MCACC?

 

[imagic]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jw87c  /t/1519940/behringer-eurolive-b215xl-as-l-r-mains#post_24416227


What is the crossover freq. set by MCACC?

 

I chose 80Hz after measuring with REW, I bypass MCACC for crossover settings and EQ.

 

[freekmccoy]

"Capable of hitting reference levels when powered by a standard AVR"


Would these work with a Yamaha RX-V675?

 

[imagic]



Quote:
Originally Posted by freekmccoy  /t/1519940/behringer-eurolive-b215xl-15-2-way-as-l-r-mains#post_24421345


"Capable of hitting reference levels when powered by a standard AVR"


Would these work with a Yamaha RX-V675?

Yes, it will. It is an 8 Ohm speaker and that's the main thing you need in terms of compatibility, and when I said "standard AVR" I was basically thinking 100 Watts output. That combo will get into the 115 dB ballpark.

 

[imagic]


Yesterday I performed the one modification that I think is important for a compression driver tweeter that's used for critical listening. I replaced the bug screen with open cell (aquarium filter) foam. Even if the difference in sound is right on the edge of imperceptible—similar screens are usually measured as causing about 1dB attenuation—I think replacing the screen makes the tweeter sound just a tiny bit crisper.

 

Besides, the screen is reflective and the foam is black, it's an aesthetic improvement and downright necessary if you are using an acoustically transparent screen in a front projection rig—the bug screens are silver and reflective.

 

I've read a bit about how the use of foam also cuts down on reflections inside the horn's throat. I think any such effect is below the threshold of perception, but anything that helps with SQ, even just a smidge, is welcome.

 



Open cell foam, cut to size, takes the place of a metal screen in the tweeter's throat

 

[imagic]



Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidK442  /t/1519940/behringer-eurolive-b215xl-15-2-way-as-l-r-mains#post_24424755


Intrigued. What is your typical listening distance?

I'm eight or nine feet from my front speakers, depending on my seat and my posture.

 

[imagic]



Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidK442  /t/1519940/behringer-eurolive-b215xl-15-2-way-as-l-r-mains#post_24427026


I am at about 9' to 10' so very similar.


Well, I called up my local music store but they only had the active 12's in stock. The helpful sales guy said Yorkville would be better for almost the same money anyway.

Then he asked me why I wanted passive. I told him that I would be running them off a home theater receiver for movies. That was a show stopper. "You need at least 400 watts to drive those and we recommend double that."

I told him that it was a small room, 10' throw, not a club. Didn't matter. Told him that I would cross them at 80hz to an active sub. Didn't matter.

A bit exasperated I said, "But I thought these were about 96 db efficiency", to which he responded "Well, that's a really big cone, it needs really big power."

Oh my God!

Lol. Of course you don't need all that power.

 

Get 'em from Amazon, send them back if you don't like. I, like you, found a bit of cognitive dissonance when talking to music store guys about home theater applications for PA speakers.


Yorkvilles are great, no question. Nevertheless, Behringer is the value leader.

 

[elmerfudII]

I am REALLY glad you posted this.


I've been thinking the same way for a long time, both that a 2 way with a horn (and a sub) is the way to go and that good quality professional sound equipment is way better than 90% of all the "Hi Fi" stuff that is out there.


When I was a teenager I did a bit of work with a band. They happened to leave a set of good PA speakers and an amp for me to store. It happened to make it into our house and I swear that system sounded better than anything I heard before or since. And the SPL and clarity at super high SPLs was unreal. But I was a teenager and people have since told me that if I heard that system and real HiFi speakers, it would sound muddy and colored.


And yet, if you go to a live performance you are going to be listening to the singer and all the instruments play through professional sound equipment and nothing sounds better than live music, right ?


I just about pulled the trigger on some Behringer active monitors for some rooms in our house. Instead I bought various pieces of the Andrew Jones Pioneer sets, just like you did. (Sub, bookshelves, a center and some floor standing speakers.) We are just finishing up a reno on our house and the first set will go into the "library" when its done next week.


I have not selected the speaker system for our media room. It won't be completed until next fall. I have been fretting with that decision for a long time. I need to know what I am using for speakers so that I can design the rest of the room. I want something robust, yet versatile and accurate, and, of course, affordable. It sounds to me like you hit the nail on the head for what I want.


Prior to reading this, I was all set to build something custom, using pro sound components.


So I have some questions....


1) If you had the option, would you use the active or passive 215s ? All my media is digital, starting with a server, and I'm wondering if I want passive speakers powered by an AV receiver or active speakers sourced from a high end PC sound card. The thing I see for the active speakers is that they are effectively bi amped and one would assume that Behringer would build some EQ into the active amp to match the speakers ??? What do you think ?


2) Is there anything about the 215s SQ that makes you think that its muddy or under driven or ??? such that the 212 would provide a brighter or more pure sound ?


3) What would you use for a sub with these speakers ? How about a Behringer 18" ?


4) What would you use for surrounds ? 8 or 10" Behringers ?


5) What would you use for a center channel ?


Thanks !

 

[elmerfudII]

Thanks for the youtube link.

Quote:
My two cents is that you do not want PA subs in your home theater. They are typically tuned for live music which generally has very little low bass and zero infra-sonics, which means even the better ones are designed to roll off at 30 hz or higher.

I appears as though the Behringer 18s have a -10dB frequency of 40 Hz. Would that be a bad thing in a home theatre ? With a bit of EQ, would it matter ? I wonder if the port dimensions could be adjusted for a lower response ?


There are some interesting reviews here:


"Using this with a Dayton SA1000 amplifier give my home theatre unbelievable low-end. In surprise car-crashes you'd swear you were there because you can actually feel the impact. I wanted a JBL Eon just because of the hard case, but the plate amp was designed for pro sound system use; the Dayton amp is made for home theater and the Behringer was much less expensive. Much, much superior to anything you would find in a retailer like Best-Buy."


"These subwoofers sound great. They are in a simple home theater system, with an 65 watt per channel Onkyo surround receiver, driven by two channels of a 200 watt per channel amplifier. Thundering, clear bass."

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-EUROLIVE-VP1800S-1600W-Subwoofer/product-reviews/B0029RRGNG/ref=cm_cr_pr_btm_link_2?ie=UTF8&pageNumber=2&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending


Edit: This document says the -10dB point is 32 Hz. +/- 3dB is 40 to 150 Hz. Max SPL is 129 dB.
http://www.behringer.com/assets/B1500D-PRO_B1800D-PRO_WebBrochure.pdf

 

[imagic]



Quote:
Originally Posted by elmerfudII  /t/1519940/behringer-eurolive-b215xl-15-2-way-as-l-r-mains#post_24427563


Thanks for the youtube link.

I appears as though the Behringer 18s have a -10dB frequency of 40 Hz. Would that be a bad thing in a home theatre ? With a bit of EQ, would it matter ? I wonder if the port dimensions could be adjusted for a lower response ?


There are some interesting reviews here:


"Using this with a Dayton SA1000 amplifier give my home theatre unbelievable low-end. In surprise car-crashes you'd swear you were there because you can actually feel the impact. I wanted a JBL Eon just because of the hard case, but the plate amp was designed for pro sound system use; the Dayton amp is made for home theater and the Behringer was much less expensive. Much, much superior to anything you would find in a retailer like Best-Buy."


"These subwoofers sound great. They are in a simple home theater system, with an 65 watt per channel Onkyo surround receiver, driven by two channels of a 200 watt per channel amplifier. Thundering, clear bass."

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-EUROLIVE-VP1800S-1600W-Subwoofer/product-reviews/B0029RRGNG/ref=cm_cr_pr_btm_link_2?ie=UTF8&pageNumber=2&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending


Edit: This document says the -10dB point is 32 Hz. +/- 3dB is 40 to 150 Hz. Max SPL is 129 dB.
http://www.behringer.com/assets/B1500D-PRO_B1800D-PRO_WebBrochure.pdf

 

Considering the price of the sub and the positive experience I had with the speakers, I'm considering giving a pair of those 18-inch Behringers a try. I used to thing infrasonics were important but recently I've applied a high pass filter at 30 Hz to my subs EQ and it's put an end to a number of room rattles, yet I'm hard pressed to find anything missing from the overall listening experience.

The sub is in my Amazon shopping cart, will probably pull the trigger this week. I can't deny how good the speakers turned out to be, I need to find out how the sub sounds. Especially since I currently have a SVS PB2000 in for evaluation. It would be interesting to see how the Behringer does compared to a $800 home theater sub.

 

[elmerfudII]



Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic  /t/1519940/behringer-eurolive-b215xl-15-2-way-as-l-r-mains#post_24428787


Considering the price of the sub and the positive experience I had with the speakers, I'm considering giving a pair of those 18-inch Behringers a try. I used to thing infrasonics were important but recently I've applied a high pass filter at 30 Hz to my subs EQ and it's put an end to a number of room rattles, yet I'm hard pressed to find anything missing from the overall listening experience.



The sub is in my Amazon shopping cart, will probably pull the trigger this week. I can't deny how good the speakers turned out to be, I need to find out how the sub sounds. Especially since I currently have a SVS PB2000 in for evaluation. It would be interesting to see how the Behringer does compared to a $800 home theater sub.

Man, you are nailing this thing ! This thread is so long overdue !


I agree with the infrasonics, though one doesn't dare mention that to home theatre geeks. I wonder how much material you would find if you applied a 40 Hz low pass filter to a soundtrack ? Low E on a 4 string bass guitar is 41 Hz. Low B on a 5 or 6 string is 31 Hz. And just because the cutoff is set at 40Hz doesn't mean that some of the 31Hz won't pass, it will just be attenuated a bit.


5 and 6 string bass guitars are pretty common these days. I am pretty sure that 18" pro audio subs handle them just fine, and bass drum kicks too for that matter, regardless of what the specs say. That is what they are designed and built to do.


Which Behringer 18 are you getting ? There are at least 4 of them.


You are getting 2 of them ? Errr... have you ever worked with pro sound woofers ? A long throw 18 in a bass cabinet will put out a ton of sound in a big room packed with people, never mind a mostly empty house room. I question whether you need 2 of them, but kudos to you for trying. For reference, an 18" woofer has twice the cone area that the 12" woofer in the PB2000 has. Did you notice that the Behringer 18s have efficiencies around 100 dB !!!! ?


One more thing, for reference.... Sound and Vision tested the SVS PC12 in September and pushed it to an "insane" 115 dB in their listening room. The Behringer 18s are designed to produce sound levels of 129 dB (1m), all day long.

http://www.behringer.com/assets/B1500D-PRO_B1800D-PRO_WebBrochure.pdf

http://www.behringer.com/assets/VP2520_VP1800S_VP1520_VP1220F_VP1220_M_EN.pdf


For the life of me I have not been able to figure out what the difference between the B1800 and the VP1800 is.


I'm wondering if a VP1220 passive stage monitor would work well as a center channel.


VP1220F

System Data

Continuous Power (IEC 60268-5) 200 W

Peak Power 800 W

Type 2-way full-range loudspeaker

Frequency Response 55 Hz - 20 kHz

Impedance 8 Ohms

Sound Pressure Level (SPL) 93 dB (Full space, 1 W @ 1 m)

Dispersion 70° x 50°

Crossover Frequency 2.5 kHz

Rigging Fittings

ergonomically shaped handle

Components

HF Driver 1.75" titanium-diaphragm compression driver

LF Driver 12" / 307 mm



This is going to be very interesting. I hope you continue your research with Behringer components for the centers and surrounds.


Edit: Ironically, if you go watch a movie at a local theatre, most likely the sound is being reproduced with pro audio components. I know for a fact that some theater systems use JBL woofer cabinets with 15 and 18" long throw woofers.

 

[imagic]



Quote:
Originally Posted by elmerfudII  /t/1519940/behringer-eurolive-b215xl-15-2-way-as-l-r-mains#post_24429121



Man, you are nailing this thing ! This thread is so long overdue !


I agree with the infrasonics, though one doesn't dare mention that to home theatre geeks. I wonder how much material you would find if you applied a 40 Hz low pass filter to a soundtrack ? Low E on a 4 string bass guitar is 41 Hz. Low B on a 5 or 6 string is 31 Hz. And just because the cutoff is set at 40Hz doesn't mean that some of the 31Hz won't pass, it will just be attenuated a bit.


5 and 6 string bass guitars are pretty common these days. I am pretty sure that 18" pro audio subs handle them just fine, and bass drum kicks too for that matter, regardless of what the specs say. That is what they are designed and built to do.

Which Behringer 18 are you getting ? There are at least 4 of them.

You are getting 2 of them ? Errr... have you ever worked with pro sound woofers ? A long throw 18 in a bass cabinet will put out a ton of sound in a big room packed with people, never mind a mostly empty house room. I question whether you need 2 of them, but kudos to you for trying. For reference, an 18" woofer has twice the cone area that the 12" woofer in the PB2000 has. Did you notice that the Behringer 18s have efficiencies around 100 dB !!!! ?


One more thing, for reference.... Sound and Vision tested the SVS PC12 in September and pushed it to an "insane" 115 dB in their listening room. The Behringer 18s are designed to produce sound levels of 129 dB (1m), all day long.

http://www.behringer.com/assets/B1500D-PRO_B1800D-PRO_WebBrochure.pdf

http://www.behringer.com/assets/VP2520_VP1800S_VP1520_VP1220F_VP1220_M_EN.pdf


For the life of me I have not been able to figure out what the difference between the B1800 and the VP1800 is.


I'm wondering if a VP1220 passive stage monitor would work well as a center channel.


VP1220F

System Data

Continuous Power (IEC 60268-5) 200 W

Peak Power 800 W

Type 2-way full-range loudspeaker

Frequency Response 55 Hz - 20 kHz

Impedance 8 Ohms

Sound Pressure Level (SPL) 93 dB (Full space, 1 W @ 1 m)

Dispersion 70° x 50°

Crossover Frequency 2.5 kHz

Rigging Fittings

ergonomically shaped handle

Components

HF Driver 1.75" titanium-diaphragm compression driver

LF Driver 12" / 307 mm



This is going to be very interesting. I hope you continue your research with Behringer components for the centers and surrounds.


Edit: Ironically, if you go watch a movie at a local theatre, most likely the sound is being reproduced with pro audio components. I know for a fact that some theater systems use JBL woofer cabinets with 15 and 18" long throw woofers.

 

I'd go for the passive units ( Behringer VP1800S ) since I already have an amp dedicated to subs. My current system uses four 12-inch drivers so two 18s would be a fairly even swap in terms of displacement, but the Behringer 18s are much more efficient. I'm going to start with one and see how that goes.


I've owned a dual 18-inch horn loaded pro sub in the past, so yeah I know what it's like to have a beast like that at home. 

 

[elmerfudII]

FYI, the B1800 is available in passive and active models. (B1800D, B1800X)

 

[imagic]


I think it's worth mentioning, I'm enjoying these speakers tremendously. I'm playing older recordings that I found "difficult" for lesser speakers to resolve like PIL, Cocteau Twins, and Laurie Anderson. I played well-recorded classical—some Beethoven and some Berlioz. I'm really digging how Pretty Lights sounds on my system. 

 

I don't know how Behringer packed so much performance and quality into speakers this affordable. All I can say is that the low price is still having a weird reverse psychological impact—I struggle to give credit where credit is due, and these speakers absolutely deserve praise.