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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

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You want a card that supports pixel adaptive de-interlacing not just bob or weave.

You do not need invers telecine capability that will provide ther origional 24 fps film content unless you have a 120Hz TV that will peform 5:5 Pull down when receiving 24 fps content. Normal 3:2 pull down will reduce flicker but it does not eliminate Judder caused by 60 fps 3:2 cadence video.

Your subject line says 1080i souce content and you also mention SD content which is 480i. Each year the cards get better at upscaling however some user still prefer some 3rd party software packages for upscaling standard DVDs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by walford /forum/post/15547781


You want a card that supports pixel adaptive de-interlacing not just bob or weave.

You do not need invers telecine capability that will provide ther origional 24 fps film content unless you have a 120Hz TV that will peform 5:5 Pull down when receiving 24 fps content. Normal 3:2 pull down will reduce flicker but it does not eliminate Judder caused by 60 fps 3:2 cadence video...

This is an interesting comment. I thought you needed to have the ability to do reverse telecine to properly reconstruct the full frame. I know deinterlacing does the basics of putting the odd and even fields together, but I thought there was something else to be done to address the 3:2 frames introduced artifacts so you'll have the original full frame to add 3:2 processing.


See the note here about artifact correction


"This is accomplished by a DVD player that is equipped with an special type of MPEG decoder, combined with what is referred to as a De-interlacer ( such as the Faroudja DCDi ) that reads the 3:2 pulldown interlaced video signal off the DVD and extracts the proper film frames from the video frames, progressively scans those frames, makes any artifact corrections, and then transfers this new video signal through a special connection on the DVD player."


And this is not in reference to 120hz.


Mike


Regards,


Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by walford /forum/post/15548950


Here is link to what I consider the best discussion of the issue involved even though some others disagree but they have not provied any better links.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/what_is_ATSC.html

Well, that's exactly my point, to properly reconstruct the progressive frames you need to do proper reverse 3:2 . You end up having to reapply it, but it will produce a better picture than not.


Mike
 

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But it will only produce a better picture if the true 24fps content can be displayed on a display that will display each of the frames in 1/24 of a second such as a 120 hz display that supports 5:5 pull down which displays each of the 24fps frames 5 times so that each origional frame is displayed for 1/24 of a second.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by walford /forum/post/15549069


But it will only produce a better picture if the true 24fps content can be displayed on a display that will display each of the frames in 1/24 of a second such as a 120 hz display that supports 5:5 pull down which displays each of the 24fps frames 5 times so that each origional frame is displayed for 1/24 of a second.

I don't refute that 120hz or another 24hz multiple would be better. However, even the 120hz grail, isn't the final answer. It has been learned there are more things that need to be done to get the true "cinema" look, for example BFI double shutter effect.


However, that being said, having a proper full progressive frames in 3:2 playback is still better than poorly assembled frames.


Mike
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford /forum/post/15547781


You do not need inverse telecine capability that will provide the original 24 fps film content unless you have a 120Hz TV that will perform 5:5 Pull down when receiving 24 fps content. Normal 3:2 pull down will reduce flicker but it does not eliminate Judder caused by 60 fps 3:2 cadence video.

These sentences are very perplexing.

Quote:
You do not need inverse telecine capability that will provide the original 24 fps film content

So you are assuming that all the contents recorded at 1080p24 are broadcast at 1080p24, right? Is that true? If a content recorded at 1080p24 is converted into 1080i60 for broadcast purposes via a telecine process, then inverse telecine is still needed to restore the original 24 fps.

Quote:
Normal 3:2 pull down will reduce flicker but it does not eliminate Judder caused by 60 fps 3:2 cadence video.

Another perplexing sentence. Basically "3:2 pulldown" = "3:2 cadence". The 3:2 pulldown at the conversion from 24p to 60p (different from the 3:2 pulldown at the conversion process from 24p to 60i before broadcasting) does not eliminate "judder" at all, it is exactly the cause of "judder".
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanamaMike /forum/post/15547060


IMHO one of the main benefits for a streamer or HTPC would be deinterlacing and proper reverse telecine of 1080i material.


Which of these solutions would provide an HDTV the best 1080p signal?

"1080i upconversion to 1080p60"? "Upconversion" usually means conversion from a lower resolution to a higher resolution.


Anyway, as for HD deinterlacing/inverse telecine, HD 4550 is perfect (I mean the perfect HD HQV scores). G45 is very good but deinterlacing is inferior to HD 4550. If you are concerned about SD PQ, HD 4670 is the best choice.


BTW you shouldn't entirely trust (HD) HQV scores of these reviews. For example, in x-bit labs' HQV scores, the full score of "Waving flag" and "3:2 Detection" look like only 5 points (actulally 10 points), so that the total full score is only 120 points (actually it is 130 points).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx /forum/post/15551358


"1080i upconversion to 1080p60"? "Upconversion" usually means conversion from a lower resolution to a higher resolution.


Prolly just meaning that since 1080i uses 1920*540 frames, deinterlacing is essentially vertically upscaling to 1920*1080.
 

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Arfster,

1080i consists of 1920x540 fields an even line field and an odd line field whcih when put back together properly create a 1920x1080 frame. So no upscaling is involved.

Renetx,

Sorry my post was confusing you did do a better job of stating exactly what I was trying to say.
 
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