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I am trying to decide between a Samsung KS8000, LGUH8500 or a Vizio P Series. I already have the PC built just need to figure out what TV to get. Anyone have experience with 4k TV gaming?
 

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I am trying to decide between a Samsung KS8000, LGUH8500 or a Vizio P Series. I already have the PC built just need to figure out what TV to get. Anyone have experience with 4k TV gaming?
Im in a similar boat. My priority right now is the audio but will then look for a 4K HDR for the PS4 Neo which is supposed to be revealed Sept 7th. My 390 doesnt support HDR and isnt that good for 4K gaming. Have a warranty on it that ends around Black Friday 2018 so I can get any GPU I want for $300 off. Waiting for HBM 2 GPUs and cheaper, higher framerate 4K monitors.
 

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Im in a similar boat. My priority right now is the audio but will then look for a 4K HDR for the PS4 Neo which is supposed to be revealed Sept 7th. My 390 doesnt support HDR and isnt that good for 4K gaming. Have a warranty on it that ends around Black Friday 2018 so I can get any GPU I want for $300 off. Waiting for HBM 2 GPUs and cheaper, higher framerate 4K monitors.
I have a GTX 1080 and I get around 60 FPS on my 4k monitor. HBM2 probably won't be out until 2018. Also, PS4 Neo won't be true 4k. It will just be upscaled to 4k. Can't get native 4k from a sub $500 box the same size as my videocard. I guess the new PS4 will support HDR10 because Sony only backs HDR10 on their TVs.
 

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None of today's GPUs are HDR ready for UHDTVs. The PC side of HDR - as it relates to UHDTVs and PC displays - hasn't been worked out yet on the software side of things and the hardware isn't HDMI 2.1 yet. Next year's GPUs and UHDTVs will have what you want/need for UHDTV gaming.
 

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None of today's GPUs are HDR ready for UHDTVs. The PC side of HDR - as it relates to UHDTVs and PC displays - hasn't been worked out yet on the software side of things and the hardware isn't HDMI 2.1 yet. Next year's GPUs and UHDTVs will have what you want/need for UHDTV gaming.
I don't mind waiting a year
 

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None of today's GPUs are HDR ready for UHDTVs. The PC side of HDR - as it relates to UHDTVs and PC displays - hasn't been worked out yet on the software side of things and the hardware isn't HDMI 2.1 yet. Next year's GPUs and UHDTVs will have what you want/need for UHDTV gaming.
Nvidia supports HDR in the 10 series graphics cards but they have to implement them into games.

http://wccftech.com/nvidia-pascal-goes-full-in-with-hdr-support-for-games-and-4k-streaming-for-movies/
 

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None of today's GPUs are HDR ready for UHDTVs. The PC side of HDR - as it relates to UHDTVs and PC displays - hasn't been worked out yet on the software side of things and the hardware isn't HDMI 2.1 yet. Next year's GPUs and UHDTVs will have what you want/need for UHDTV gaming.
The current gen gpu's (1000 and r9 400) all support hdr over both HDMI and Displayport(4k at 120hz if any monitor were out that had the new version).

https://developer.nvidia.com/rendering-game-hdr-display
 

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The current gen gpu's (1000 and r9 400) all support hdr over both HDMI and Displayport(4k at 120hz if any monitor were out that had the new version).

https://developer.nvidia.com/rendering-game-hdr-display

Dynamic HDR - HDR that changes on the fly - is what is needed for games and that's not supported by current hardware. Also, Windows 10 does not support HDR yet and the older OS won't ever get it. Things are not where they need to be for HDR gaming.
 

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Dynamic HDR - HDR that changes on the fly - is what is needed for games and that's not supported by current hardware. Also, Windows 10 does not support HDR yet and the older OS won't ever get it. Things are not where they need to be for HDR gaming.
HDR meta transport – HDR meta transport uses the “secondary data packet” transport inherent in the DisplayPort standard to provide support for the current CTA 861.3 standard, which is useful for DP to HDMI 2.0a protocol conversion, among other examples. It also offers a flexible metadata packet transport to support future dynamic HDR standards.

http://www.vesa.org/featured-articles/vesa-publishes-displayport-standard-version-1-4/

HDMI 2.1 could also just be a firmware upgrade.

You realize the Xbox one S doesn't have HDMI 2.1 yet it will launch the first HDR game in October.
 

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HDR meta transport – HDR meta transport uses the “secondary data packet” transport inherent in the DisplayPort standard to provide support for the current CTA 861.3 standard, which is useful for DP to HDMI 2.0a protocol conversion, among other examples. It also offers a flexible metadata packet transport to support future dynamic HDR standards.

http://www.vesa.org/featured-articles/vesa-publishes-displayport-standard-version-1-4/

HDMI 2.1 could also just be a firmware upgrade.

You realize the Xbox one S doesn't have HDMI 2.1 yet it will launch the first HDR game in October.

DisplayPort 1.4 or HDMI 2.1 are required for dynamic HDR meta-data, which is what is needed for HDR gaming, as it allows frame-by-frame HDR on the fly and not pre-determined HDR, which is what the current generation of products can do. The most you can get out of the current stuff is in-engine HDR cutscenes or anything pre-configured, which isn't that great and certainly not true HDR gaming. Nobody is shipping any products with either of those updated standards until next year, at the earliest, despite whatever blah blah about HDR gaming is being tossed around by AMD or Nvidia. AMD's first-gen Polaris (supposedly) comes with Display Port 1.3 and HDMI 2.0A. Nvidia is shipping older DisplayPort 1.2-certified ports in their Pascal cards while claiming that those cards will support 1.3/1.4 features - no certification program yet exists for either standard - when 1.4 displays are available and they claim HDMI 2.0B, despite no such thing existing. I'm sure we all remember Nvidia's false claims in regards to HDMI 2.0 and their last generation of cards. The earliest we will know more about HDMI 2.1 is September, likely with official debut set for CES 2017 and nobody is shipping DP 1.4 products until Spring/Summer of 2017. The current HDR10 spec will be updated in the near future, for dynamic meta-data, but it won't be until next year, at the earliest. Right now, Windows 10 has no HDR support in the OS outside of 3D accelerated graphics and updates to allow HDR in the OS probably won't come until the second of next year's annual updates.


For some products, HDMI 2.1 might come with a firmware upgrade. For others, not possible. We'll have to wait and see. Nobody can promise anything right now because the standard hasn't been approved, let alone drafted. We likely won't hear anything concrete until the next CES.


Xbox One S has HDR10, which it uses - primarily - for video content, which has pre-made HDR. Not really any support for HDR gaming, as HDR10 doesn't currently support dynamic meta-data any more than HDMI 2.0A does. The next-gen Xbox One Scorpio (or whatever it ends up being called) is packing a Polaris GPU with GDDR5X (likely second-gen Polaris, given the holiday launch) and could bring HDR gaming with dynamic meta-data and HDMI 2.1. Until then, any claims of HDR gaming support are just not realistic. Since you brought up Forza, the developers used HDR to do the skies and add some touches to the pre-configured scenery, which is easy to do with the limits of the current HDR10 spec and the hardware inside the console. They have not given any HDR demo of Forza as of yet. From what was seen at E3, Gears of War 4, the other known HDR title for Xbox One S, only uses HDR for some minor lighting effects upgrades that aren't anything exciting.

Real HDR gaming will happen first on the PC and it will happen when all the hardware and software comes together, which isn't going to be this year.
 

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I guess it all depends on the definition of HDR. 5 years back, HDR stood mainly for high contrast (true black, bright whites) and all the color/luminance nuances inbetween.

DisplayPort can do up to 16 bits per channel, even in the aging version 1.2. Apparently the 8 bit limit in Nvidia drivers were just a means to distinguish gaming from professional hardware, which has allowed for 10 or 12 bits for quite some time. By patching drivers, people were able to squeeze 10/12 bits out of their gaming cards as well.

Also: Games do not need "dynamic metadata". Games are dynamic by definition, and can render any image they want, within the constraints of the monitor. That is conceptually very different to pre-recorded media, which at the same time needs to be compatible to legacy (non-HDR) hardware.
 

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DisplayPort 1.4 or HDMI 2.1 are required for dynamic HDR meta-data, which is what is needed for HDR gaming, as it allows frame-by-frame HDR on the fly and not pre-determined HDR, which is what the current generation of products can do. The most you can get out of the current stuff is in-engine HDR cutscenes or anything pre-configured, which isn't that great and certainly not true HDR gaming. Nobody is shipping any products with either of those updated standards until next year, at the earliest, despite whatever blah blah about HDR gaming is being tossed around by AMD or Nvidia. AMD's first-gen Polaris (supposedly) comes with Display Port 1.3 and HDMI 2.0A. Nvidia is shipping older DisplayPort 1.2-certified ports in their Pascal cards while claiming that those cards will support 1.3/1.4 features - no certification program yet exists for either standard - when 1.4 displays are available and they claim HDMI 2.0B, despite no such thing existing. I'm sure we all remember Nvidia's false claims in regards to HDMI 2.0 and their last generation of cards. The earliest we will know more about HDMI 2.1 is September, likely with official debut set for CES 2017 and nobody is shipping DP 1.4 products until Spring/Summer of 2017. The current HDR10 spec will be updated in the near future, for dynamic meta-data, but it won't be until next year, at the earliest. Right now, Windows 10 has no HDR support in the OS outside of 3D accelerated graphics and updates to allow HDR in the OS probably won't come until the second of next year's annual updates.


For some products, HDMI 2.1 might come with a firmware upgrade. For others, not possible. We'll have to wait and see. Nobody can promise anything right now because the standard hasn't been approved, let alone drafted. We likely won't hear anything concrete until the next CES.


Xbox One S has HDR10, which it uses - primarily - for video content, which has pre-made HDR. Not really any support for HDR gaming, as HDR10 doesn't currently support dynamic meta-data any more than HDMI 2.0A does. The next-gen Xbox One Scorpio (or whatever it ends up being called) is packing a Polaris GPU with GDDR5X (likely second-gen Polaris, given the holiday launch) and could bring HDR gaming with dynamic meta-data and HDMI 2.1. Until then, any claims of HDR gaming support are just not realistic. Since you brought up Forza, the developers used HDR to do the skies and add some touches to the pre-configured scenery, which is easy to do with the limits of the current HDR10 spec and the hardware inside the console. They have not given any HDR demo of Forza as of yet. From what was seen at E3, Gears of War 4, the other known HDR title for Xbox One S, only uses HDR for some minor lighting effects upgrades that aren't anything exciting.

Real HDR gaming will happen first on the PC and it will happen when all the hardware and software comes together, which isn't going to be this year.
Do you have any links going into detail about this?

Couldn't they also use DV anyways instead of HDR10 if they chose too?
 

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Do you have any links going into detail about this?

Couldn't they also use DV anyways instead of HDR10 if they chose too?
If you want to read all about dynamic meta-data and HDR, you'll have to look at the professional demos and not the gaming stuff, cause that's where the focus is. At NAB, they have had demos of Unreal Engine running on Dolby Vision displays along with live, dynamic HDR demos that give a glimpse at where it can take you. Sufficed to say, it gives you a much better picture than the HDR that is currently available. That's why dynamic meta-data is being added to the HDR10 standard. The difference in picture is like going from an LCD HDTV to a high-end Plasma HDTV. Imagine how great it will be with OLED! Because it's all a work in progress that changes rapidly, there isn't much to read about beyond the demos.

You can read the E3 articles about the Xbox One S demos. AFAIK, GOW4 was the only Xbox One S HDR demo there, showcasing the "improvements" that the console was supposed to bring. All the write-ups said "slight improvement" over the regular demo.

DV for gaming requires some things. First and foremost, it requires significant licensing and customized hardware/software in the consoles. That's one reason why it hasn't taken off with TV makers, who prefer their own secret sauce or want to stick with something they paid a ten year license for, five years ago. Second, it requires game engine support. That's definitely not there yet, as nobody has incorporated it into their engines as of the release of the Xbox One S. Epic has been tinkering with it for the past few years, but hasn't officially integrated it into their Unreal engine because it's being figured out as they go along. Crytek and Valve haven't done anything with it from what we know. Third, it requires game studios to invest significant moolah in Dolby Vision reference monitors and other stuff to bring it all together. Don't expect any DV Gaming news until next year's CES or E3.
 

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If you want to read all about dynamic meta-data and HDR, you'll have to look at the professional demos and not the gaming stuff, cause that's where the focus is. At NAB, they have had demos of Unreal Engine running on Dolby Vision displays along with live, dynamic HDR demos that give a glimpse at where it can take you. Sufficed to say, it gives you a much better picture than the HDR that is currently available. That's why dynamic meta-data is being added to the HDR10 standard. The difference in picture is like going from an LCD HDTV to a high-end Plasma HDTV. Imagine how great it will be with OLED! Because it's all a work in progress that changes rapidly, there isn't much to read about beyond the demos.

You can read the E3 articles about the Xbox One S demos. AFAIK, GOW4 was the only Xbox One S HDR demo there, showcasing the "improvements" that the console was supposed to bring. All the write-ups said "slight improvement" over the regular demo.

DV for gaming requires some things. First and foremost, it requires significant licensing and customized hardware/software in the consoles. That's one reason why it hasn't taken off with TV makers, who prefer their own secret sauce or want to stick with something they paid a ten year license for, five years ago. Second, it requires game engine support. That's definitely not there yet, as nobody has incorporated it into their engines as of the release of the Xbox One S. Epic has been tinkering with it for the past few years, but hasn't officially integrated it into their Unreal engine because it's being figured out as they go along. Crytek and Valve haven't done anything with it from what we know. Third, it requires game studios to invest significant moolah in Dolby Vision reference monitors and other stuff to bring it all together. Don't expect any DV Gaming news until next year's CES or E3.
Just interested from the game design side. I'm guessing HDR isn't going to need much GPU power?

Wouldn't DV only require a DV tv anyways. Dolby could always partner up with them. But my main hope is that eventually it will be easy to have support for both in games and movies without much trouble if the creators desire. Realize it probably won't happen with many movies because of agreements and partnerships though.

At the very least it shows DV shows it is theoretically possible to use HDMI versions as low as 1.4 for dynamic metadata.
 

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I've also been poking around looking at the new TV's took my PC up to. I should have my 1080 card in a few days. I'm sticking with Intel and a single Nvidia graphics card. Anytime a new game is released on Steam, the people having technical issues are either running on old equipment, or running with another card(s). The 1080 is the best card right now for VR and I just got a Vive not too long ago and have been using it with a Titan Black.

As for the TV, I've been leaning towards the LG E6 or B6 (65") - but I can't seem to find a consistent number for the response time. Apparently you can run HDR Standard Picture Mode and achieve 35ms response time while having a 4:4:4 color 4k picture refreshing at 60fps (source - http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/e6). This conflicts with CNET.com's review. There are also owners of identical panels reporting inconsistencies. My gut is telling me to tough it out another year with my Sharpe Elite + Darbee Darblet combo...but who knows what Black Friday may tempt me into doing. The Samsung KS8000 might be a good intermediate compromise until HDR gaming becomes commonplace, since it's not as expensive and is a better TV than anything from Vizio.

I do have the both XB1 and PS4 and am very disappointed with Sony. There's no way that I'm buying their next console. Their online gaming service alone is an utter failure in my opinion, but since everyone I play sports games with is on PS4 I'm stuck with it for this gen. If anything I'm going to wait for this Scorpio on the next gen consoles.
 
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