[sarsicism]

I am thinking about building something like Thiel's SS2 (dual 10") or the Genesis S 4/8 (quad 8") and am looking for suggestions for the best quality 8" and 10" subwoofer drivers out there.


This will be for 2/3 music and 1/3 theater.


Also, please let me know what you think is the "best quality bang for the buck" in these sizes.


I will be building two sets of these and will be amplifying and EQing them externally. Any suggestions or tips on wiring/amps/EQ are welcome.


Thanks!

 

[zero the hero]

The CSS Trio 8 is a rediculously good little 8" driver

 

[tvrgeek]

I guess I don't understand the concept of 4 8's as a sub. I sure could see a pair as really low extended woofers in a 3 way, but subs? I don't quite understand why. What would the advantage be?

 

[Stereodude]

In before the "fast bass" myth.

 

[sarsicism]

Essentially I am after making tall 10.5" wide subwoofers as speaker stands for my monitors, and I wanted them to be sealed and front firing. Since that limits the size of the driver, I can make up for it with multiples. I could do two front firing 10" or 8", two front and two rear 8", four front 8"... you get the idea.

 

[A9X-308]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sarsicism /forum/post/16858157


Essentially I am after making tall 10.5" wide subwoofers as speaker stands for my monitors, and I wanted them to be sealed and front firing. Since that limits the size of the driver, I can make up for it with multiples. I could do two front firing 10" or 8", two front and two rear 8", four front 8"... you get the idea.

Where do you plan on crossing them? For under 120Hz or so side mounting is fine.

 

[DS-21]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sarsicism /forum/post/16858157


Essentially I am after making tall 10.5" wide subwoofers as speaker stands for my monitors, and I wanted them to be sealed and front firing.

Subs as speaker stands is a bad idea, unless you do something like the NHT 3.3 with the speaker 'making its own corner.'


That said, the aforementioned Trio8 is excellent. The Peerless SLS8 is also very good, albeit not quite as good (less xmax, higher Le, less impressive basket) and cheaper.


But put them in places they can do some real good, not under the speakers.

 

[sarsicism]

After a ton of research I have come to have a few different thoughts.


1) No speaker stand design, but likely a versatile design that can work anywhere.


2) As for where I am going to cross them, TBD. My monitors hit 38 Hz, so I would like a little support for their bottom end and then as much extension as possible (being limited by maintaining defined quality bass).


3) I think I am going to use 8" drivers. I really want to make a very small, but very capable sub (or two). I am looking at several drivers (JL 8w7, Sound Splinter RL-i8, CSS Trio 8, Crystal CMP 8, Audio Pulse Epic 8).


4) I have several passive designs in mind and would love some thoughts on them.

A) A single JL 8w7 in two cabinets (pseudo mini fathom).

B) Two JL 8w7 in one cabinet (pseudo mini gotham). Likely both in front, but possibly one front and rear.

C) Two RL-i8 in two cabinets. Likely both in front, but possibly one front and rear.

D) Four RL-i8 in one cabinet. Possibly all in a vertical array, but likely 2 on opposing sides.

E) Other driver designs are still possible.


5) I have not figured out if I want to do sealed, ported, or passive radiator. Quite a lot of variables still up in the air, but I am leaning towards a dual passive radiator with one on each side.


Thoughts on which way to go would be great. Thanks.

 

[LHD21]

Out of curiosity, why 8"s? You would probably be better served with a couple shivas (12") than any of the 8" you mentioned. If you arent putting them in the stand it really shouldnt be an issue.

 

[sarsicism]

12"s are still possible, but I'd like to keep the cabinets as small as possible and have two of them. With 12's requiring at least 1.5 cubic feet each, it adds up to more room than I want to take up. In the future I would like to add a third large subwoofer to cover the very low end, but for now I want to make two small, high quality, mid bass subwoofers.

 

[cc00541]

One advantage of 2 subs/cabinet:

If you rigidly couple the two magnet assemblies together you can significantly reduce the cabinet excitation and its attendant distortion.


C

 

[DonoMan]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sarsicism /forum/post/16873761


12"s are still possible, but I'd like to keep the cabinets as small as possible and have two of them. With 12's requiring at least 1.5 cubic feet each, it adds up to more room than I want to take up. In the future I would like to add a third large subwoofer to cover the very low end, but for now I want to make two small, high quality, mid bass subwoofers.

Lots of 12"s require less than that.

 

[LHD21]



Quote:
Originally Posted by cc00541 /forum/post/16874348


One advantage of 2 subs/cabinet:

If you rigidly couple the two magnet assemblies together you can significantly reduce the cabinet excitation and its attendant distortion.


C

I'm guessing this is for things like the TD18 series where pole vents arent used.

 

[cc00541]



Quote:
Originally Posted by LHD21 /forum/post/16874458


I'm guessing this is for things like the TD18 series where pole vents arent used.

For drivers with pole piece vents, there would need to be appropriately sized spacers between the magnet assemblies to allow proper venting.


C

 

[Stereodude]



Quote:
Originally Posted by cc00541 /forum/post/16874348


One advantage of 2 subs/cabinet:

If you rigidly couple the two magnet assemblies together you can significantly reduce the cabinet excitation and its attendant distortion.


C

You don't need to rigidly mount the two to get the advantage since the air in the box couples them. Further, if you put them too close together you will get problems from the magnetic fields from the drivers interfering with each other. You definitely wouldn't want metal on metal contact.

 

[cc00541]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude /forum/post/16875846


You don't need to rigidly mount the two to get the advantage since the air in the box couples them. Further, if you put them too close together you will get problems from the magnetic fields from the drivers interfering with each other. You definitely wouldn't want metal on metal contact.

I was referring to the mechanical coupling to the enclosure. Not the acoustic coupling to the air in the box.


Yes, the T/S parms may change slightly, but the other advantages will be worth any potential detriments here. -Like when we glued shielding magnets on the drivers in the old CRT days, the stray magnetic field is of no concern.


And what harm would contact cause?


C

 

[Dean100]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sarsicism /forum/post/16873761


12"s are still possible, but I'd like to keep the cabinets as small as possible and have two of them. With 12's requiring at least 1.5 cubic feet each, it adds up to more room than I want to take up. In the future I would like to add a third large subwoofer to cover the very low end, but for now I want to make two small, high quality, mid bass subwoofers.

If you are looking at "mid bass" , then I think you should consider your original plans of making these into stands for your speakers. Use an active crossover and seperate amplification. You can add a true subwoofer later for the "low" stuff.


I used two of the Aurasound NS10 513 for my "bass bins". Sealed they work very well for my 90% music usage.


Look for a woofer or subwoofer that you can crossover fairly high, like 200 - 300 hz.

 

[fredfish]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sarsicism /forum/post/16873761


12"s are still possible, but I'd like to keep the cabinets as small as possible and have two of them. With 12's requiring at least 1.5 cubic feet each, it adds up to more room than I want to take up. In the future I would like to add a third large subwoofer to cover the very low end, but for now I want to make two small, high quality, mid bass subwoofers.

I think I understand your objective. I have been looking at the same thing for a small room (20x11x7). A small driver in a small enclosure gives maximum placement flexibility (if you believe you need that).


I was looking at the SDX7, but it should be similar to the Trio 8.

 

[sarsicism]

Yes, very similar to that idea, but a little deeper as my LCR can all hit 38 Hz. I'm thinking I can hit 20Hz with my small subs, and then later on get something with some serious muscle for the deepest hits.


If my figures are correct, doing an isobaric passive radiator design with two JL Audio 8w7s in a 1.1 cubic foot enclosure tuned to 22.7 Hz results in a +/- .5 db response to 21 Hz, F3 at 19.5 Hz, with 106.5 SPL using 1000 watts.


Another idea I was toying with is doing a design like the Velodyne 1812, but with an 8" & 12".

Finding the right drivers for that is a tricky task, even with independent EQ.


I am going to be powering the final design with a NAD 2700 2 channel amp, and then some form of 2 channel EQ (TBD).

 

[vasyachkin]

people need to make mistakes so they can learn.


mistakes - what DIY is all about.