Best amplifier for a B&W CM10 Stereo set-up

I just had an extensive listening session at my local magnolia store with the B&W's and a marantz 6009 vs a pioneer 82 and Yamaha 2040. I bought the marantz as it clearly had the fullest sound and handled the bright ness of the B&W's the best. The Yamaha was almost hard on the ears, the pioneer was in the middle. I think the 7702 would be a great choice.

dhanula6688 said:

I'm changing my music room and looking for an stereo amplifier to power the B&W CM2 towers (30W - 300W into 8Ω). (PrePro Marantz 7702, Oppo BDP103)
Any matching Amp. recommendations for stereo 70% music listening 30%movie.

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Speakers/Home_Audio/CM_Series/CM10-S2.html

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I see you are new to the forum with 11 post. I'm kind of a rookie too but recently have been participating... you are about to hear 2 sides of an entertaining debate on whether any amps sound different than any other amp... Some are VERY strong willed that it is a proven fact, that all amps sound the same and have no "signature". They then tell you unless you are listening to 105 db ear popping levels,that 30 watts sounds the same as 300...Others will tell you just the opposite and usually side with the ones they themselves own....It kind of sounds like the liberals (Bright, Warm, Neutral Sounding)...or the conservatives....your ears are wrong, and if you do a blind test...you will see they are right...Sooo.....Let the fun begin
BTW, I just purchased a Outlaw 7500/Parasound P-5 as I hate the brightness of my Denon 4520 when playing music...but my ears have GOT to be wrong. I guess I'm a Liberal....LOL

It's not so much the watts. Heck even a a basic denon or whatever receiver delivers 100w these days. It's the quality of watts. Can the amp handle high impedance loads and sustaining it counts too. How does the preamp stage cleans up the signal and all that.

I used to own several integrated amplifiers. Then I made the switch to modern AVRs with bass management, room correction, etc. I feel I have better sound now, and I'm able to more easily integrate my subwoofers. And the AVRs have the added benefit of being less expensive. I suppose all these pluses to the AVR thing would be for nothing if there was ever a blind test indicating that audiophile amplifiers are audibly better/different (sans EQ). However, the science points the other way.

ss3740 said:

I see you are new to the forum with 11 post. I'm kind of a rookie too but recently have been participating... you are about to hear 2 sides of an entertaining debate on whether any amps sound different than any other amp... Some are VERY strong willed that it is a proven fact, that all amps sound the same and have no "signature". They then tell you unless you are listening to 105 db ear popping levels,that 30 watts sounds the same as 300...Others will tell you just the opposite and usually side with the ones they themselves own....It kind of sounds like the liberals (Bright, Warm, Neutral Sounding)...or the conservatives....your ears are wrong, and if you do a blind test...you will see they are right...Sooo.....Let the fun begin
BTW, I just purchased a Outlaw 7500/Parasound P-5 as I hate the brightness of my Denon 4520 when playing music...but my ears have GOT to be wrong. I guess I'm a Liberal....LOL

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Yes I'm very new to the world of Audio Enthusiasts, and find it fascinating field of study to learn. as you said what Im concerned is quality of Watts I get from a $5000 dual Channal Vs a $800 Amp which has the same characteristics. I ge that a Budget Amp like Outlaw/Emotiva Vs a Classe/Carrie Audio or Bryston can make a difference with the quality of components and configuration. My main selection decision concern is what Amp matches AND DELIVERS HIGHEST QUALITY FOR my kind of a set up (Marnt 7702, Oppo 103) to drive pair of B&W MC10)..

Well obviously then you need to spend the kind of money that will make those B&Ws feel right at home. Don't go for budget crap like Outlaw or Emotiva....definitely spend on something quality like Levinson, Krell, Pass or Boulder. Don't skimp. I'm sure your ears can tell the difference because you've got discriminating taste.

I would check out the Rotel RB-1552 MKII 2 channel amp. Should match up very well w/your B&W's power wise. I owned a number of Rotel amps in the past. They were reliable and always provided plenty of power to my speakers.

Class A said:

I would check out the Rotel RB-1552 MKII 2 channel amp. Should match up very well w/your B&W's power wise. I owned a number of Rotel amps in the past. They were reliable and always provided plenty of power to my speakers.

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Thank you Guys for the great suggestions and opinions . I think I will look for listening to Rotels ..

wunderkind said:

It's not so much the watts. Heck even a a basic denon or whatever receiver delivers 100w these days. It's the quality of watts. Can the amp handle high impedance loads and sustaining it counts too. How does the preamp stage cleans up the signal and all that.

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I'm pretty sure just about any audio amp can handle high impedance loads just fine. It's the low impedance loads that can present a problem.

Now please define how "quality" of watts is determined? Are they determined in magazine reviews? By committee? Or by measurements?

And I sure wouldn't want my preamp stage to "clean up the signal," unless you're talking room correction, but I wouldn't call that "cleaning up the signal."

fish5225 said:

I just had an extensive listening session at my local magnolia store with the B&W's and a marantz 6009 vs a pioneer 82 and Yamaha 2040. I bought the marantz as it clearly had the fullest sound and handled the bright ness of the B&W's the best. The Yamaha was almost hard on the ears, the pioneer was in the middle. I think the 7702 would be a great choice.

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How loud were they being played?

Did you make any effort to make sure they were all playing at the same level? I recently witnessed somebody comparing receivers at a local Magnolia, and the salesperson set up the comparison to make the more expensive amp sound better than the other ones (he and the customer agreed to play them at the same "volume setting," but they weren't calibrated to be the same, and the expensive one was louder. The customer immediately said it sounded better: fuller, more detailed, etc.)

beaveav said:

I'm pretty sure just about any audio amp can handle high impedance loads just fine. It's the low impedance loads that can present a problem.

Now please define how "quality" of watts is determined? Are they determined in magazine reviews? By committee? Or by measurements?

And I sure wouldn't want my preamp stage to "clean up the signal," unless you're talking room correction, but I wouldn't call that "cleaning up the signal."

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You know high demand, high impedance....same thing, right? The cleaning of the signal is like cleaning a vinyl record, gets rid of all the fuzzy stuff.

I thought Rotel was budget crap too....certainly is if Emotiva and Outlaw amps are. In order to satisfy the OP it needs to cost more money. And look really good. With nice lights.

lovinthehd said:

You know high demand, high impedance....same thing, right? The cleaning of the signal is like cleaning a vinyl record, gets rid of all the fuzzy stuff.

I thought Rotel was budget crap too....certainly is if Emotiva and Outlaw amps are. In order to satisfy the OP it needs to cost more money. And look really good. With nice lights.

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Thanks for the feedback.. Do have such good recommendations (ones that you have used in the past) ?
I am mainly looking for the stereo listening with no distortion and muddyness.

lovinthehd said:

You know high demand, high impedance....same thing, right? The cleaning of the signal is like cleaning a vinyl record, gets rid of all the fuzzy stuff.

I thought Rotel was budget crap too....certainly is if Emotiva and Outlaw amps are. In order to satisfy the OP it needs to cost more money. And look really good. With nice lights.

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oh got in from your previous response and started looking them around.
Thank you

beaveav said:

I'm pretty sure just about any audio amp can handle high impedance loads just fine. It's the low impedance loads that can present a problem.

Now please define how "quality" of watts is determined? Are they determined in magazine reviews? By committee? Or by measurements?

And I sure wouldn't want my preamp stage to "clean up the signal," unless you're talking room correction, but I wouldn't call that "cleaning up the signal."

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I'm not sure I have the correct technical terms and knowledge to answer the questions

But I learnt the lesson like this. I took my Outlaw mono blocks to the Speaker vendor and replaced the Classe amp they had connected to the CM10 and listened the same track with the same CD player and cables etc. ..
My ears showed me that I have been blind with my Outlaws. So to anyone in doubt I recommend the same approach and see for your selves.

The Online Hype for the brands like Emotiva and Outlaw are so much Newbies like me easily get caught to them. that's how the on-line marketing is so nothing we can do for that.,

dhanula6688 said:

i'm not sure i have the correct technical terms and knowledge to answer the questions

but i learnt the lesson like this. I took my outlaw mono blocks to the speaker vendor and replaced the classe amp they had connected to the cm10 and listened the same track with the same cd player and cables etc. ..
my ears showed me that i have been blind with my outlaws. So to anyone in doubt i recommend the same approach and see for your selves.

the online hype for the brands like emotiva and outlaw are so much newbies like me easily get caught to them. that's how the on-line marketing is so nothing we can do for that.,

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did you level match after switching amp??

dhanula6688 said:

I'm not sure I have the correct technical terms and knowledge to answer the questions

But I learnt the lesson like this. I took my Outlaw mono blocks to the Speaker vendor and replaced the Classe amp they had connected to the CM10 and listened the same track with the same CD player and cables etc. ..
My ears showed me that I have been blind with my Outlaws. So to anyone in doubt I recommend the same approach and see for your selves.

The Online Hype for the brands like Emotiva and Outlaw are so much Newbies like me easily get caught to them. that's how the on-line marketing is so nothing we can do for that.,

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Did you level match the two amps? Or simply plug the other amp in without doing so? You may only have heard gain structure differences...if you can hear the difference between an Outlaw mono block and a Classe amp otherwise, and you preferred the Classe, then buy the Classe. Personally I see no point in spending that kind of money on something as mundane as a power amp....

lovinthehd said:

Did you level match the two amps? Or simply plug the other amp in without doing so? You may only have heard gain structure differences...if you can hear the difference between an Outlaw mono block and a Classe amp otherwise, and you preferred the Classe, then buy the Classe. Personally I see no point in spending that kind of money on something as mundane as a power amp....

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To be fair we did not do any manual changes but used MultEQ 32 automatic settings for both Tests wit the same volume level on Prepro and player.
The Classe easily outplayed the Outlaw with tight Bass and mid voice/range was really clear on the Classe set-up. Probably it could be are better with Amps like Levinson, Krell, Pass or Boulder but I can not find dealers with similar configuration to do the test

. hence the reason for this thread to see if any of the Audiophile experts in the community has done the same.

dhanula6688 said:

To be fair we did not do any manual changes but used MultEQ 32 automatic settings for both Tests wit the same volume level on Prepro and player.
The Classe easily outplayed the Outlaw with tight Bass and mid voice/range was really clear on the Classe set-up. Probably it could be are better with Amps like Levinson, Krell, Pass or Boulder but I can not find dealers with similar configuration to do the test

. hence the reason for this thread to see if any of the Audiophile experts in the community has done the same.

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Not a good way to A/B compare as more than likely you are only hearing level differences....if you want internet opinions to base your purchasing decisions on, up to you. Even if there are minute discernable differences in amps that the "audiophile" can determine it's still somewhat like asking what people think about what clothes you should wear, what food you should like, etc...useless information unless you're them.

Don't have experience with the Outlaw 2200, but by looking at the specs, it is a hybrid A/B/G amp with first 80 watts at 8 ohm been class A/B and switch to class G after that..

How loud were you playing the speakers at the show room? Would you describe it as moderate, elevated, loud, or really loud? How far away are you from the speakers? Is the room treated with acoustic treatment?

Also, when you say MultiEQ 32 auto settings, does that mean you ran Audyssey TWICE, ONCE FOR EACH AMPLIFIER?

It is unfair to compare amplifiers without level matching, and if you did ran Audyssey twice, that's also introduced even more variables as we do not know if the MultiEQ changes something between 2 setups..