AVS Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have a HUGE dilemma and would like to hear some others' opinion and feedback on it. I am losing sleep over it. This will be a LONG post, so please bear with it.


This past January, the selling point for purchasing a new HDTV was this year's Super Bowl broadcast. After desperately seeking an HDTV in time for Super Bowl Sunday, I found a Toshiba 40H80 floor model at Best Buy. I was going to purchase the Toshiba anyways, so I figured it wouldn't hurt to get a cheaper floor model instead. I also had a huge store credit from a previous purchase just burning a hole in my pocket.


The 40H80 floor model had no manual and no remote (I eventually picked up all that later). The only other problem I could see what that the front monitor part was not properly aligned with the TV's chassis. I figured this was just a matter of a technician properly aligning the screws. I didn't really think it was going to be a drastic repair. The 40H80 was $2499 at the time and I picked up the TV for $1760.


THe sales guy (kid) convinced me to go with the 4 year warranty for another $450. He said I "could receive (2) ISF calibrations which normally run $400 each." He also said "they would clean the unit and would cover normal wear and tear...blah, blah, blah." Two ISF Calibrations??? "OK SURE!!! SIGN ME UP!"


All went well afterwards. I picked up the TV the next day and the Super Bowl was great. It has been a couple months since. I never had the time to call out the technician to fix the TV because I was never home. You know how it goes. You never get around to doing the most important things in life right?


It took the opening ALL BLUE sequence of TOY STORY (not sure which one) to spotlight a dusty lens. My screen had a dust/dirty spot on it! So I finally decided to call BEST BUY service.


When I called them, they told me that they don't DO/COVER ISF Calibrations. Cleanings are also NOT included. Best Buy service was telling me to take it up with the store I purchased the TV from. The service center lady was basically implying that they had idiots /untrained kids for employees.


I called the BEST BUY store back and another guy (kid) told me that they DID do CALIBRATIONS. In his words, it was a matter of wording. I wasn't technically supposed to say "calibration." I was to explain "My picture was bad." Then they would do a "calibration." This kid basically told me to "scheme" my way into a "calibration."


I decided to not wait until BEST BUY came out to service the TV. I had a local tech come out. Upon removing the screen/front piece, we could hear loose parts. When he opened the TV, we could see the broken pieces. THEY HAD BEEN GLUED TO KEEP THE FRONT MONITOR ATTACHED TO THE CHASSIS OF THE TV. And the front corners of the inside of the TV had been broken off. There is no way this TV will ever be the same. It turned out that this TV was either RAMMED or DROPPED and BEST BUY had tried to glue back the pieces of the plastic chassis. I have the loose formally glued pieces sitting on my desk right now.


I am FURIOUS!!! I feel so cheated. I know it's my fault for picking up a floor model, but how did i know what the TV looked like INTERNALLY?


So I feel I am entitled to a NEW TV or massive discount. Please hear me out:


1) This TV is a piece of crap.

2) The sales guy lied to me about the calibrations and cleanings.

3) The Purchase order never mentioned the TV was BANGED UP internally nor glued back together.

4) The TV is now selling for $2099, just $300 more than I paid for this piece of crap.

5) I bought a worthless warranty

6) Waste of time! I'm moving now and I'm getting my DirecTV hooked up Wednesday!


So what should I do? They should either refund me $500 or give me a new TV right? I would even take another floor model but I strongly feel this one needs to go back.


I can't take it up with my Credit card company because I didn't purchase it that way.


What would YOU do? Any feedback is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks for reading AVS.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
235 Posts
I would take this up with the store manager in person. Explaining the circumstances of the sale as wel as your problem with the unit. After all, you were informed that you're ubit would be covered under the extended warranty.

Should this approach not work. Then you take it up with the regional office manager of Best Buy.


If still no success, write to Best Buy's corporate headquarters.


If all else fells with contacts at Best Buy, then you may need to take this matter up with the Better Business Burea of your state. Hopefully, you can resolve this matter with the store mangager. Make sure you log, Who, When and Where, in the event you may have to persue this matter at their Head Quaters or B.B.B.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,314 Posts
This is not a pretty picture!


I'd say you may have weakened your case somewhat by opting to have a local tech come out instead of waiting for Best Buy's authorized service provider. Was your tech at least Toshiba authorized??


I agree that the best advice is to go to the store and talk to the manager. Make sure you are talking to the store GM and not some department or shift manager.


As far as "scheming" to get them to fix your TV, I think that is just the kid's way of saying "the people on the phone are just as clueless as I am. They don't know what a calibration is. If you call them and tell them your TV is broke, we'll fix it. Tell them anything else and we can't help you."


The fact that the price of the set is now cheaper is of no consequence in this matter. Electronics get cheaper, that's just the way it is.


You say the should refund your $500. What $500? Do you mean the$450 you paid for the service agreement. They'll usually do that in a heartbeat, especially since you haven't had any claims as far as they are concerned.


Since you're moving, that's not going to help you either. It always gives them a a chance to say you broke it moving it.


I know you don't want to hear this, but long story short, some of this is caused by the fact that you were impatient and in a hurry to buy, and then got too busy to follow up correctly within a reasonable time frame. Stuff like this is a whole lot harder to resolve months later.


Good luck in your quest for a resolution. Let us know how it goes.


------------------

Steve

Visit our dedicated home theater, The City Cinema.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
164 Posts
Trying to be impartial to your find, lets look at it from Best Buys point. There are very dishonest people running around, the prison system in the US is housing for the ones that were stupid enough to get caught.


example: I am the store manager, how do I know that you the buyer of the unit didn't drop it down the staircase and tried to repair it with glue, and to cover your mistake quick fix it together, and then called for service calibration, and he pointed it out to you that this set was damaged. Your response is "Man they ripped me off" they sold me damaged goods. And now your whole scenario is played out to this point, and of

course you want a new set to replace your clunker.


I am not in anyway accusing anyone here of this, its just an example, is it possible, Yes!. And if its possible, then the burden of proof is on you to prove (very hard now you had it for 1 year) your accusations. And if you owned a business would you buy you story?...your answer...is your answer!


One story of a friend owned a 1970's era Monte Carlo, bought it new, had it for 3 years, had a recall for a bad cam shaft, they took it in for recall, he said while you have it, could you look at my trunk of car, I always get water in it after a rain, or snow fall. They called him back a day later, and said how long ago ago did he have his right rear quarter panel replaced from the car accident?? he said what accident, never been in one. The dealer ship of purchase had changed ownership, and his claim was denied. They sold him damaged goods, but after 3 years had no way of proving it, no less collect damages. Needless to say, he sold it fast, and never looked back. One thing for sure, he learned by his mistakes.

------------------

Graphics

STOP DVI/HDCP AND DFAST boycott JVC

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
209 Posts
get your "local tech guy" to put what he found in writing, then be sure to bring it (or rather, a copy) with you when you go complain.


dinesh



------------------

DVI/HDCP sucks. DFAST sucks. Boycott JVC.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for all the responses.


I DID fail to mention that I can sign a SWORN AFFIDAVIT, take a POLYGRAPH, whatever.... I did NOT PERSONALLY DAMAGE THIS TV.

I've been living at the same SMALL place since I bought the TV. There would be no way to drop this TV in a small one floor apartment.


I'm going to talk to the manager today. I will let you guys know.


Thanks for the support!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
31 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by briandx:
Frapp:


I'm not sure what you were thinking with this post, but you'd better take a crash course in human relations before posting again....


[This message has been edited by briandx (edited 04-23-2001).]


I`ll be sure to take it under advisement....



Frapp -

 

·
Banned
Joined
·
31 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by rtperna:
With open-box stuff (particularly at mass merchants, with high-end stores it's a much different story) you're gambling; I think that's what Frapp's point was, he just needed to be more eloquent. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


Personally, I'd be thankful it was only $2k. You have two options, as I see it:


1. Make use of that extended warranty and have a functional TV.

2. Cut your losses, and get a refund for that $450. That way, you're out approx. $1350. Either monkey with it yourself, or sell the corpse on eBay.


Rich
Thank you for the clarification, that is exactly what I was saying, just in a more direct way.


As I stated ( and you seem to be implying to him here ), simply chalk it up to an educational experience and be very aware next time he is thinking of buying an open box item ..... especially a high dollar one.


Personally I would pay more to get more, but that is just my opinion http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


Frapp -

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,574 Posts
I have occasionally gotten into this sort of position.


Let me suggest:



1. Take a big, deep breath.


2. Document everything in copious detail, using very professional and thoughtful language. Take pictures. Include names, dates, copies of receipts, the works. The document should stand by itself.


3. Request a meeting with the store manager at his convenience. Take the document in, explain your case, show him the photos, answer questions. Act as much as possible as though you are objective and that you know he will resolve the issue. Don't threaten or argue, let the facts speak for themselves.


4. If this doesn't work, go up the management line.



Often, if you really write it all down and present it fairly, you will find someone who will want to resolve the matter.


Does this always work? No, but it is your best shot IMHO.



Good luck. (Please let us know how it turns out.)


1
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
I am guessing that you mostly want to vent a bit. I also hope to not get flamed like Frapp did, but I tend to agree with him.


1) You should not expect to get quality information from a teenage sales guy from a place like Best Buy. Read the printed information they provide regarding the extended warrantee. I don't believe they mention anything close to ISF calibration. If your picture was really bad, I would expect that you might get a tech out to adjust it, but it will not be an ISF trained tech.


2) You buy from places like Best Buy because they are local, they have the item in stock and they are cheap.


3) You buy 'floor model' items because either you can't wait for them to get the real deal in stock (out of stock) or you want a great price. Either way, you are buying something that has an unknown history when you buy a floor model. They may sell it to you with a warrantee, but basically they just want to get it out the door. Let the warrantee claims people (and you) deal with it. You probably can eventually get it fixed, but you would have to jump through many hoops.


4) The fact that it sells for less money now is totally unrelated. I bought my year 2000 TW40X81 at BestBuy for about $2399. Your newer year 2001 40H80 as you say is now selling for even less. I have no problem with this.


5) You didn't wait to let their tech open it up for the first time and look at it. If he had, he might have repaired your set under warrantee. If the guy that did look at it is a Toshiba tech, you might still be able to get it fixed for free.


Basically, you can't have it all. You can’t have great service, great quality and a low price. You gambled with a floor model. Sometimes you win, sometimes you loose.


What to do now? I agree with most suggestions. Don’t go into the store like a raging bull and demand the moon. Document the problems, have your paper work, be calm yet firm, give them a chance to make it right, etc. Escalate (Toshiba and/or Best Buy) the problem as needed. Let their tech look at it and attempt to fix it. If that can’t be done properly, then you have an even better leg to stand on.


Richard
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
848 Posts
rlsmith had a great post, but let me add three words: Better Business Bureau. I was a customer service manager for almost five years, and those three words will set off the fire alarms. So I would discuss this with the Best Buy manager, provide documentation, and if doesn't come up with a reasonable outcome, tell him that you're going to send the documentation and a cover letter to the BBB. Then do it and copy the Best Buy manager so that he knows you've done so. Copy the regional manager as well. When they get notification from the BBB that they have an open case, believe me, they'll start jumping. Hopefully it won't come to that, but it is a legitimate way to turn up the pressure when you've been cheated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
345 Posts
I agree with Malyel. Just because an item (even a 375lb RPTV) is an "open box" does not necessarily make it any better or worse than the exact same item in a box. I've read many reports of people returning their brand new TV's after watching a 4:3 cable signal and not being happy. I believe in California, there is a law that if an item is opened, a retailer can not sale it as new. So the professional movers bring back the TV and the store now has to sell it at a reduced cost. I see no problem personaly buying that TV. So its been moved 20 miles in town further than another from the back of the store. These TV's have all come 1000's of miles from Japan anyway. Just my two cents.


Steve


[This message has been edited by SteveHoltam (edited 04-23-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
755 Posts
The only important questions are is the set still under warranty and what exactly does the extended warranty state. Any problems clearly communicated within these warranties should be handled without much hassle.


Does the fact that these sets are now selling for less mean anything? Yes, absolutely. It gives you a gauge on how much you can reasonably expect from them with minimal hassle.


I have been managing retail stores now for about five years and I can tell you that Best Buy will take of you. Like previously mentioned, unless it was marked "as is" of "for parts only", you're in good shape.


However, like any good business, they'll try to get out of it as cheaply as possible.


In retail, we know that most dissatisfied customers end up costing about nine potential customers while good customer service ends up potentially getting one additional customer.


Do the math. I don't care how great a company's reputaion is, this type of customer service will eventually ruin them. And they know it.


I disagree with the comments made about "open box" or "demo" buys. All that generally means is that the item has been used and, therefore, you should expect to have it serviced sooner than you would had you bought it new.


For example, if it generally takes five years before the monitor needs service and it had been used for one year, you should expect to have it serviced in four years.


Sometimes, "refurbished" items are actually better than new items since repairs have already occured. I would only say never buy anything that says "as is". You would almost never come out ahead in that deal.


Other than that, the rest of the advice on this thread is very good. Get ahold of the manager and tell him/her that all you want is the monitor to be in out of the box condition with the exception of "normal wear and tear" for the amount of time it was used. You don't expect new tubes but you do expect all the broken parts to be replaced and/or repaired.


If any of the damage that needs repair caused other problems, you expect those problems to be solved as well.


Write down exactly what occured and on what dates, or as closely as you can recall. Be honest. Get the names of the sales folks you dealt with, again, if possible. Tell them the reason you bought the extended warranty was to avoid exactly what you are currently experiencing.


When they ask why did you hire a technician to look at it when it was covered, again being honest, tell them you were told that you had to lie to get it looked at under the extended warranty and that isn't your style. You just wanted it cleaned and calibrated.


A good manager will ask you what you want. Usually not in exactly those words, but near it. Just tell him due to the inconvenience and the fact you were actually lied to, you think a new replacement set and ISF calibration is probably just and you'd like the remainder of the extended warranty applied to the replacement set.


Mention to him an open box buy is not the same as buying a damaged product and the reason you think a replacement set is warranted is because you feel the monitor is so damaged it is probably unrepairable.


In the end, you may want to accept another "open box" buy, provided it was returned for no other reason than the original buyer decided they didn't want it, not because there was a problem with it.


A good manager will take care of you. However, if not, you may need to talk to his boss, probably a district manager. Try that route before going to BB headquarters.


I would be shocked if the manager doesn't take care of you, though. I doubt he wants his boss to know, let alone BB headquarters, that his sales clerks are running around lying to customers and selling them obviously damaged goods.


Finally, go in with a good attitude and be as nice as you can. Stick to your guns and tell them exactly what you want and what you think is fair but do so in a calm and friendly manner. Going in with an attitude makes everyone emotional and you'll go through a lot of silliness before anything gets resolved.


Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
129 Posts
i too have many dealings with bb, take the responses you see hear use the best of each, arm yourself with knowledge and go to war! when you talk to one manager, if he doesnt give you an aceptable deal, wait for the next shift, an try again. i bought sony hs10, put it in back of my truck an tried to make it across the street to kmart for rope, can everyone here picture what a swift blast from santa ana winds did? almost started crying, good thing for 3 year service plan that i almost didnt buy. turns out it was already trashed, opps gotta finish story later. sorry
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,888 Posts
Quote:
Why do some people think that buying an open box item is such a big gamble? Unless the item is marked as being AS-IS, which some items are, there is no reason why an open box item is a gamble. It carries the exact same warranty as a new item.
With RP/HDTV Floor models it doesn't matter if you get a warranty because the warranty WILL NOT cover burn-in or high hours and dimished brightness on the CRT's that occurs on floor models that have their contrast cranked all the way up and the TV running 12 hours a day 7 days a week! Yeah you get a 4 year warranty (if you pay another $450 otherwise 1 year warranty) but a TV that should last 12-15 years plus now has an expected lifetime of 4-5 years (at best) and that makes the savings not worth it!


In regards to the problem with this floor model I would suggest you call and have one of the Best Buy techs come out and let them discover the damage and you will then have someone who works for Best Buy backing you up about this glue job that was done!


------------------

------------------
My DVD/LD List My Equipment List


[This message has been edited by FrankS (edited 04-23-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,667 Posts
My advice is to call them and say "its broken". Since they pushed the service contract on you, they should make it work right.


Most places will replace it rather than argue with you. (Unless you live on the east coast.)


------------------

Ken Elliott
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
This turned into a GREAT thread! Thanks for all the feedback!


I physically took the screen into Best Buy today and showed them part of the damage. I was expecting to go to war but it turned out otherwise. They had no problem believing me after seeing the evidence themselves.


I am going to have the tech that came out and the Best Buy tech write up estimates and orders tallying up the damage. I don't think Best Buy wants to deal with servicing this TV, so they said they'd give me a new one.


As soon as I give them the repair order, they are going to pick up the old TV and deliver a new one. I am so relieved!


A new Toshiba 40H80 for $1750? Not a bad deal!


I really appreciated the service from management I received. The Torrance, CA Best Buy is a great store! They may have some knucklehead sales kids working there, but the management makes up for it.


THanks for all of your feedback!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
31 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by MatisaFord:
I have a HUGE dilemma and would like to hear some others' opinion and feedback on it. I am losing sleep over it. This will be a LONG post, so please bear with it.


This past January, the selling point for purchasing a new HDTV was this year's Super Bowl broadcast. After desperately seeking an HDTV in time for Super Bowl Sunday, I found a Toshiba 40H80 floor model at Best Buy. I was going to purchase the Toshiba anyways, so I figured it wouldn't hurt to get a cheaper floor model instead. I also had a huge store credit from a previous purchase just burning a hole in my pocket.


The 40H80 floor model had no manual and no remote (I eventually picked up all that later). The only other problem I could see what that the front monitor part was not properly aligned with the TV's chassis. I figured this was just a matter of a technician properly aligning the screws. I didn't really think it was going to be a drastic repair. The 40H80 was $2499 at the time and I picked up the TV for $1760.


THe sales guy (kid) convinced me to go with the 4 year warranty for another $450. He said I "could receive (2) ISF calibrations which normally run $400 each." He also said "they would clean the unit and would cover normal wear and tear...blah, blah, blah." Two ISF Calibrations??? "OK SURE!!! SIGN ME UP!"


All went well afterwards. I picked up the TV the next day and the Super Bowl was great. It has been a couple months since. I never had the time to call out the technician to fix the TV because I was never home. You know how it goes. You never get around to doing the most important things in life right?


It took the opening ALL BLUE sequence of TOY STORY (not sure which one) to spotlight a dusty lens. My screen had a dust/dirty spot on it! So I finally decided to call BEST BUY service.


When I called them, they told me that they don't DO/COVER ISF Calibrations. Cleanings are also NOT included. Best Buy service was telling me to take it up with the store I purchased the TV from. The service center lady was basically implying that they had idiots /untrained kids for employees.


I called the BEST BUY store back and another guy (kid) told me that they DID do CALIBRATIONS. In his words, it was a matter of wording. I wasn't technically supposed to say "calibration." I was to explain "My picture was bad." Then they would do a "calibration." This kid basically told me to "scheme" my way into a "calibration."


I decided to not wait until BEST BUY came out to service the TV. I had a local tech come out. Upon removing the screen/front piece, we could hear loose parts. When he opened the TV, we could see the broken pieces. THEY HAD BEEN GLUED TO KEEP THE FRONT MONITOR ATTACHED TO THE CHASSIS OF THE TV. And the front corners of the inside of the TV had been broken off. There is no way this TV will ever be the same. It turned out that this TV was either RAMMED or DROPPED and BEST BUY had tried to glue back the pieces of the plastic chassis. I have the loose formally glued pieces sitting on my desk right now.


I am FURIOUS!!! I feel so cheated. I know it's my fault for picking up a floor model, but how did i know what the TV looked like INTERNALLY?


So I feel I am entitled to a NEW TV or massive discount. Please hear me out:


1) This TV is a piece of crap.

2) The sales guy lied to me about the calibrations and cleanings.

3) The Purchase order never mentioned the TV was BANGED UP internally nor glued back together.

4) The TV is now selling for $2099, just $300 more than I paid for this piece of crap.

5) I bought a worthless warranty

6) Waste of time! I'm moving now and I'm getting my DirecTV hooked up Wednesday!


So what should I do? They should either refund me $500 or give me a new TV right? I would even take another floor model but I strongly feel this one needs to go back.


I can't take it up with my Credit card company because I didn't purchase it that way.


What would YOU do? Any feedback is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks for reading AVS.
Dont let me sound mean here, BUT .............


I am amazed at the people who jump on open box items at stores simply to save a few dollars and yes, even if it is a few hundred dollars.


I would not and have not EVER, EVER, bought anything that was an open box/demo piece, especially a high end potentially somewhat delicate HDTV.

I know it is a popular practice, but you may be buying some other persons misery as it seems you have done here. Besides, the "kid" who sold you the set may not have known it was damaged, on the other hand, as well as I personally like Best Buy as a store, I rarely belive or ask for much

information from the "kids". I usually research it myself for accuracy.


In conclusion, the fact that you purchased it in January and it is now April, you probably need to chalk this one up to an educational experience. Even if it was only a few weeks after the purchase, you may find it hard to have any satisfaction since you left the store with it in supposedly good condition and Best Buy has no idea what may have happened to it during that time. The falsehoods and just plain lying we see everyday in our stores from customers is dreadfully sad, this is why we stand on a fair but basic return fee on all items sold.


Also, even if you had purchased it with a credit card, you may have had fun going round and round with B.B. and your Credit card company for a month or two, but Ill bet you would have had a hard time convincing the bank to remove that charge.


You have heard of mind over matter ... this looks like a case of greed over matter and I have seen it all to many times. It`s also going to get worse when later this year 40H80 drops further in price below what you paid.....


Frapp -

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,381 Posts
Frapp:


Sorry, but you DO come off as mean, and worse. Trying to get the best price possible does not make a person greedy.


I'm not sure what you were thinking with this post, but you'd better take a crash course in human relations before posting again....


[This message has been edited by briandx (edited 04-23-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
With open-box stuff (particularly at mass merchants, with high-end stores it's a much different story) you're gambling; I think that's what Frapp's point was, he just needed to be more eloquent. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


Personally, I'd be thankful it was only $2k. You have two options, as I see it:


1. Make use of that extended warranty and have a functional TV.

2. Cut your losses, and get a refund for that $450. That way, you're out approx. $1350. Either monkey with it yourself, or sell the corpse on eBay.


Don't get me wrong, I've spent thousands of dollars at Best Buy. However, there are two items you never want to buy from there: RPTVs and computers.


Assuming you were otherwise happy with the TV before, what I would do is make use of that extended warranty. Say the screen just came apart, and show the tech what you found. If he doesn't make it "good as new", you have, I believe, two more shots at letting them try fixing the problem. After the third try, you get a replacement TV. I'm pretty sure that's Best Buy's policy, it's worth checking into.


Good luck,


Rich
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top