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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm looking at adding Dish and minimizing but keeping DirecTV primarily for football.


I am using the RCA 8900 and multiswitch to pick up DirecTV 101 and DirecTV 119.


What do I get if I use a small dish for Dish 148 and the center position of the 8900 for Dish 110?


With much more HD content on Dish and NFL Sunday Ticket on DirecTV, I think this will become a common configuration for those of us on the West coast.




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Ken Elliott
 

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Ken,


Robert's suggestion is an excellent one, the index for the schematics in Kevin Timmerman's site:
http://www.geocities.com/dbs_tech/


I have a hybrid setup where I get 119 for DirecTV off the Dish 500. It takes an intersting soultion to make this work since I have a Dish 500 TWIN LNB.


For Dish channels there are good folks that update Excel sheets, see:
http://www.qtm.net/~trowbridge/DBScomp.htm
 

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Ken:


I went through the decision of doing this and had all the drawings and even a confirmed installed system proving it works, But the deciding factor for me to use two isolated systems was cost. It simply was cheaper in the long haul. The only reason then bacame an issue of having two dishes or three as a space issue. I did not have that problem. Later, I discovered a little known problem of incompatibility that will surface should DirecTV ever begin using the for any program you wish to watch. The way DirecTV uses the 110 LNB is with a special switching arrangement, putting the signal on the 119 feed. TYhis doesn't work with the 110 LNB for DishNetwork and vice versa. Fortunately, DTV never went with the 110 bird except for the WRAL local signal and, I believe one other station. If you have the room, I'd recommend going with the 3 dish system.


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Don Landis

Home Theater Pics at: www.scubatech.com Last updated 3/25/01
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Don Landis:
... I'd recommend going with the 3 dish system.
I'm likely to go this route as well. It's a good thing that the cold war is over or our homes could be mistaken for west coast KGB communication centers!

 

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If you give up the whacky DirecTV 110 and could figure a way to get a shorter "normal" LNB on the elliptical you could get down to a 3 DLNB elliptical & single LNB for 61.5. I have the extra switch and cable to try but I hate to mess with success. My wife winces every time she looks up & sees the 3 dishes.


Tim
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Where is a link/reference as to what channels are carried on which Dish satellites?


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Ken Elliott
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Don Landis:
Ken:


I discovered a little known problem of incompatibility that will surface should DirecTV ever begin using the for any program you wish to watch. The way DirecTV uses the 110 LNB is with a special switching arrangement, putting the signal on the 119 feed. TYhis doesn't work with the 110 LNB for DishNetwork and vice versa. Fortunately, DTV never went with the 110 bird except for the WRAL local signal and, I believe one other station.
I planned to install the elliptical D* dish setup to recieve 101, 110, 119 plus an 18" for Dish HDTV at 61.5.


I intend to follow Kevin's diagram and have the required swith to share the 110 LNB between D* & E*.


I have the 2- dual lnb's that came with the D* plus dish as well as 2- dual lnb's from DishNetwork.


What won't work- today, or in the future?


Murray Kerdman
 

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Quote:
Where is a link/reference as to what channels are carried on which Dish satellites?
Try http://www.lyngsat.com/dig/america.shtml


I've thought about using a Dish500 to get 110 and 119, another Dish500 to get 91 and 101 and an 18" dish for 61.5. Use dual LNB's instead of the Twins on the Dish500's and I can use three satellite providers.


-Robert
 

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Is Don correct insofar as the drawings Kevin provides for an elliptical 3 LNB E*/D* sharing 110 arrangment are theoretical and have inherent flaws that prevent optimum DishNet from 110 at he angle of the elliptical as provided when trying to preserve the future posssibility of DTV access to 110.


What abount just optimizing 101 for DTV and 110 & 199 ONLY for E* on a DTV Plus elliptical?


Also, can the E* SW64 and DTV 4x4 multiswitches be placed inside the home on 60 ft.+/- RG^ solid copper runs without any problems?


Murray Kerdman
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I'd prefer to get DirecTV 101,119 and Dish 101,110,119 and 148 if this makes sense.


Can I take my existing DirecTV DSA8900, add a LNB and two splitters, add a dish for 148, and be ready to go?


What LNB should I buy, my understanding is that the sat C won't work?


I really don't have room for three dishes and the HOA hasn't said anything yet, but I don't want to stir up the hornets. If DirecTV launches something on 110 that I want, then I'll worry about it.


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Ken Elliott
 

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Ken


I want to do the same thing and am ignorant as to what a Sat C LNB is.


I have =2 dual LNB's from Dish and 2 LNB's from DirecTV Plus.


Which of these LNB's are to be used with a DirecTV DSA8900 actually Sony-both by ChannelMaster) to get DirecTV 101,119 and Dish 101,110,119?


I believe 148 or 61.5 are only available with a second 18" dish 300.


Murray Kerdman
 

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Murray-


I never tried to use a regular LNB in the center position for the 110 slot on the DSA8900 It just may work for DN. I had discussed it with a sales engineer from Channel Master and was warned that the focal position for 110 for the DSA8900 was not in line with the two outer LNB's and would not work electrically on DN receivers. Later on when one of my buddies at dtv told me that they were considering a move of the two HDTV channels to 110 I decided to try a sat C kit and installed one. It is physically lower than the two outer Lnb's. For switching purposes it is wired into the 119 LNB coax and it uses special internal electronics to achieve the joining of these two on one cable to the 4X4 switch. The 110 Sat C kit does receive 110 signals for DirecTV with very good strength. I'm not sure the Sat C kit will respond to the switching signals inside the DishNetwork IRD. I never tried it. So, the answer is, without actual testing it we really don't know, and just maybe you will need to figure out a way to mount the horn of the LNB so that it is positioned like the Sat C kit LNB when mounted. Or, you may be able to compromise the signal strength on all three birds to get enough signal from the 110 to hit the horn of the center LNB.

The drawings of the wiring assumes that the physical mounting of the LNB's are in the focal point for each bird's signal. And that you do not plan to use the 110 bird for DirecTV. Of course that should not be a real problem since the 110 really has nothing to offer us at this time. If you really like to experiment, try it, What can you lose? Money and time?

You probably already know this but the DN receivers have an automatic configuration for sensing and switching with the SW64 or SW21 wiring. You may also need to figure a way to manually configure the receiver so that your channels arn't all screwed up when it aligns it's tuner to auto switch to each LNB depending on which channel you select.

I also recall that when I was considering doing the 2 dish install that at that time no one had actually tested and was successful with this. It was all theory. OK, there was a time in my life when I played around with antennas in Ham Radio but today, I just wanted to watch HDTV and DBS without compromise.


One more thing that you asked: The "Sat C Kit" consists of a special non standard, electrically different and physically short LNB, two short pieces of coax with connectors and a special signal combiner. The wiring of this is particular in that what you do is break one side of the dual cable coming from the 119 LNB. I don't recall whether it was the low or high side but the wrong way doesn't work. The other short coax goes to the single connector on the short 110 LNB. Then the coax you disconnected from the 119 LNB connects this signal combiner to the 4X4 switch. As it was explained to me, the DirecTV receivers do not switch 3 LNB's so they "piggyback the 110 signal onto the 119 selected LNB. The 110 signal looks like it is coming in on 119 to the receiver. DishNetwork receivers are designed to switch 3 LNB's and use a different design to achieve this, 22Khz tone switching for DTV vs. voltage switching on the DN system. They are not compatible.


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Don Landis

Home Theater Pics at: www.scubatech.com Last updated 3/25/01



[This message has been edited by Don Landis (edited 07-15-2001).]
 

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Kevin uses an 8900E, with a standard DirecTV LNB in the C position, for Dish at 110. It works.


You can't get both Dish 110 & DirecTV 110 from the same LNB.


You must use the Sat "C" kit to get DirecTV 110.


You can also use a DirecTV dish/LNB for Dish 61.5 or 148.



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[This message has been edited by Ken H (edited 07-15-2001).]
 

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Don,


Heading to the chapeau store today.


Murray,


I didn't know you could split 110 and still have it work for DirecTV but I would have supreme confidence in Kevin's diagram. Using DLNBs vs. a TWIN (or Quad) is the way to go because of switch incompatibility (tone vs. addressed), though I did figure a way to do it. Switching 119 is the most important thing because of the SD programming on Dish and the HD for DirecTV.


Robert,


Looks like you are trying for ExpressVu off the second Dish 500. Right spread in degrees, but I don't have any idea how you'll calc "tilt" but it can be done. Keep us apprised of your success.


Tim


[This message has been edited by rudolpht (edited 07-15-2001).]
 

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Yes, I want to switch 119 for the SD Dish & HD D*.


I planned to install the elliptical D* dish setup to recieve 101, 110, 119 plus an 18" for Dish HDTV at 61.5.


I intend to follow your diagram below and have the 4x4 swith provided with the DirecTV Plus to share the 110 LNB between D* & E*.


I have the 2- dual lnb's that came with the D* plus dish as well as 2- dual lnb's from DishNetwork.


I planned to poulate all three lnb mounts on the DTV elliptical to get 101, 110, & 119 without any modification.

Will this work?


Are the SMS-4/4 RP20 4X4 multi-switches provided with the Sony (MADE BY CM) DirecTV Plus Kits as well as the Eagle Aspen http://www.pbigroup.com/New%20web%20...44D%20spec.pdf considered powered or not?


There is no power supply and injector with either as came with my SW64. Is this a problem?


What, if anything that I have won't work- today, or in the future?


Thank you in advance for your prompt assistance in this regard.


Murray Kerdman
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by mkerdman:
Yes, I want to switch 119 for the SD Dish & HD D*.


I planned to install the elliptical D* dish setup to recieve 101, 110, 119 plus an 18" for Dish HDTV at 61.5.
I always thought a normal DLNB would work in the center position, but after installing the SAT C kitt I don't know. The about 1/2 inch lower middle slot makes sense for the contour of the dish. I would put out a general call for anyone that has had success getting Dish 110 on the middle slot of the elliptical. I "chickened" out after I got the three dishes working from trying.

Quote:


I intend to follow your diagram below and have the 4x4 swith provided with the DirecTV Plus to share the 110 LNB between D* & E*.


I have the 2- dual lnb's that came with the D* plus dish as well as 2- dual lnb's from DishNetwork.


I planned to poulate all three lnb mounts on the DTV elliptical to get 101, 110, & 119 without any modification.

Will this work?


Are the SMS-4/4 RP20 4X4 multi-switches provided with the Sony (MADE BY CM) DirecTV Plus Kits as well as the Eagle Aspen http://www.pbigroup.com/New%20web%20...44D%20spec.pdf considered powered or not?
My understanding is the switch needs to be powered. I bought a good one but took the advice of the site and tried the splitters (one side power passing, one side not). This worked FINE for me (good advice) which may indicate a powered switch is not important, but at about $6 a pop, try the splitters first (just make sure they are sat splitters and one side powered and the other passive).

Quote:


There is no power supply and injector with either as came with my SW64. Is this a problem?
This is definitely a problem, there should be a PS that goues into the switch via coax (not the typical DC power suppy).


Please post progress,

Tim

 

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>>I intend to follow Kevin's diagram and have the required swith to share the 110 LNB between D* & E*.



I'm curious on this- If using the DSA8900 system, what 110 LNB will you use? The Sat C kit or a DN or generic LNB for 110? The sat C has electrical compatibility problems for DN and the Standard LNB doesn't align properly unless you rig up a special arm to lower the center LNB into it's 110 degree focal spot. I suspected that the theoretical drawings on this system presumed that you would not be using DirecTV for 110 nor be able to optimize the signal on 110 for DN. So, it was my conclusion that I would be compromising signal for a 2 dish system and that it would have limitations for future of 110 DirecTV.

Basically the system works but not as ideal as a 3 dish system. It's just a compromise. Your choice. But the major deciding factor was that the cost of the different switches for me vs. what I already had made going with a 3 dish system cheaper as well as easier to use and did not limit future compatibility with DirecTV.


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Don Landis

Home Theater Pics at: www.scubatech.com Last updated 3/25/01
 
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