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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First let me say that I read the "all facts thread", but some things were not covered.


I know the 47a has the chroma bug, but what about the 47ai?

I see that some of you guys love the panasonic,


What is best for picture and AUDIO:

the RP82, RP91 or XP50 OR the Pioneer 45/47??


Why is it that no one talks about the toshibas?


Please help, buying this coming week.

Matthew
 

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I have a 47ai and a XP30. They are basically equal in PQ. Yes, the

47ai does have the chroma bug. But, very few DVDs show off the bug

and you have to look hard (or freeze) to see it. Many people make

way too much "noise" about the chroma bug. It may depend on

what type of display or the size of the display. I have a 50" plasma.


IMHO, buying a DVD player with audio that does not have both

DVD-A and SACD is a waste of money. Neither format is going away.

Few titles will be on both formats.


larry
 

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You will not likely find the 47Ai for under $500, but it is CUE-ridden. Few players are better Chroma Bug demonstration units then the Pioneers. The video from the Panasonic will be far better as the Pioneer not only has the bug, but also about the worst de-interlacing available. On the other hand, the audio side of the Pioneer will wipe the floor with the Panny. These Panasonic units are as poor in their audio as the Pioneers are in there progressive video.
 

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Yojimbo, have you watched the Pioneer, or is you information based on the secrets shootout and other reviews? Just trying to get a handle on what is visible in the eral world and what pops up under extreme viewing or lab testing.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Theater Moose
Yojimbo, have you watched the Pioneer, or is you information based on the secrets shootout and other reviews? Just trying to get a handle on what is visible in the eral world and what pops up under extreme viewing or lab testing.
TM- I have indeed; I own a Pioneer Elite DV-38a, which was Pioneer top player just 2 years ago. I also own a Panasonic RP82, thus I have had a very good chance to become acquainted with their respective offerings.


The Chroma bug in the Pioneer is almost unbearable; it can be seen across the entire Chroma field on all DVDs. It does not simply manifest itself as a jagged or lined edges on colored edges, but creates black lines and streaks running completely through the color. I have no idea why some people claim they do not see it or see it rarely; on my 57" Hitachi HD RPTV, it is abundantly clear. It is also not an occasional problem, it is there in every scene and not just in and on red colors.


As for the de-interlacing; it is also horrendous. It consistently combs. It also softens the picture immensely. This is a real shame, because Pioneers have extremely sharp interlaced video, but the results are undeniable. Take a Pioneer and run the Avia test patterns. Even my Hitachi's de-interlacer preserves a high degree of detail whereas the Pioneers doubler leaves little to no detail in the finest patterns.


I am very familiar with the Secrets Shootouts and I have found them to be spot-on with what I have found from testing my machines.


Still, if one can run a Pioneer through certain processors, they can preserve the extremely sharp picture of the Pioneer. In this regard, the Pioneers can have a beautiful progressive image. A few of these processors also have algorithms that will eliminate the chroma bug. These processors make the Pioneer about the best unit out there. As I have said before, this is why you see so many Pioneer Elites in high-end set-ups.



Anyway, TM, I hope that this is some help. My answer is that the CUE error is clearly visable in the real world. I am not sure why some do not find it so evident and bothersome.
 

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Interesting yojimbo. I do not see the amount of chroma problems

with my 47ai piped into my Fujitsu P50 plasma. I even bought a XP30

to see what I was missing - not much. No chroma bug, but other than

that it's very hard to see any difference.


larry
 

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The chroma bug does seem to manifest itself more prominently on certain displays than others.


Anyway, it really comes down to whether you need to have a universal player or top-notch video. The only players that supposedly have both, the Denon 2900 and the Yamaha 2300, are out of your price range. Take a look at the SACDs and DVD-As available and see if there are many discs that appeal to you. I have both DVD-A and SACD capability but find myself still listening to regular CDs about 98% of the time.


If you can find yourself able to live without SACDs, I would recommend that you check out the Denon 1600, which has excellent video and supposedly better audio than the Panasonics. If you can live without DVD-A, take a look at the Philips DVD963SA. If you need both, go with a Pioneer 45A or save up for the Denon or Yamaha.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by David Guill
I thought the Denon 1600 is based upon the Panasonic RP-62
Not according to these guys:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-b...rch&articles=5


It is based upon Panasonic RP-82.


I couldn't find the Panasonic RP-82 anywhere online, so picked up the Denon DVD-1600.


Wouldn't mind trying out the Panny RP-91 ... ;-)
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by PooperScooper
Interesting yojimbo. I do not see the amount of chroma problems

with my 47ai piped into my Fujitsu P50 plasma. I even bought a XP30

to see what I was missing - not much. No chroma bug, but other than

that it's very hard to see any difference.


larry
Larry- I know that the Pioneer improved their deinterlacer over the previous generation of their players(including my 38a). In this regard, your de-interlacer will be slightly superior to mine, but from the reviews that I have read...not much better. I believe that the Secret's Shootout rated it the worst of the lot with which it was tested. In terms of Deinterlacing, you should see a big improvement with your XP30 in terms of combing over poor flagging and edits.


As for the Chroma bug, I have no idea. If I point it out to my wife, then she will see it; otherwise, she will not. I, however, am drawn to it like a magnet. In fact, I was, at one point, beginning to believe that I had trained myself to seek it out. That ended when my brother(by far not a videophile) came over and watched a movie; during the opening credits, he asked me why there was lines through the red title credits. I felt oddly relieved. Still, many people apparently never noticed it, or at least never said anything.


Still, to those who do see it; it ruins the experience of watching the movie.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by _Michaelangelo_
Not according to these guys:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-b...rch&articles=5


It is based upon Panasonic RP-82.


I couldn't find the Panasonic RP-82 anywhere online, so picked up the Denon DVD-1600.


Wouldn't mind trying out the Panny RP-91 ... ;-)
The Denon DVD-1600 is definitely based on the video section of the Panasonic DVD-RP82. Still, on the video side, they are not identical; the Denon has a drop-off in its upper frequency response, while the Panny has a rather flat FR. Many have claimed that, as a result, the Denon, is not quite as crisp visually. I have seen them both and could not(given their respective set-ups) tell any difference. On the other hand, the Denon's audio section and build quality are greatly improved over it Panny counterpart.


As for the 91, I would likely provide a step backwards in terms of overall picture quality. The Panasonic MPEG decoder in the Denon is as good as they come and its Faroudja de-interlacer is definitely superior to the one in the 91. The main advantage of the RP91 is in its aspect ratio scaling, unless this is paramount to you, I would advise you to stay with the 1600...it will be very hard to surpass.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by _Michaelangelo_
Not according to these guys:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-b...rch&articles=5


It is based upon Panasonic RP-82.


I couldn't find the Panasonic RP-82 anywhere online, so picked up the Denon DVD-1600.


Wouldn't mind trying out the Panny RP-91 ... ;-)
I just bought the RP72S from CC for $169 and love it.


Supposed to have the same chip for progressive scan and same quality...


I made sure the model Number was an "A" and not a "B"


"A" ones had the DCDi in them.....
 
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