[ChainedIkaros]

Hi, I'm going to be snagging a BenQ HT1075 or W1070 to replace my old Mitsubishi. Where my Mitsu had "blacks" that were visible in broad daylight, this BenQ appears to be a massive step up, so I'm going to try and remove some ambient light. I'm mounting the BenQ about 13-15' from the screen and am planning on a 144" screen. Already the brightness per Ft-L will be a touch low, and with the addition of a gray screen I think that although far from a JVC or high-end Sony, the blacks will be plenty good for dedicated theater use.

The room isn't currently treated for ambient light and as another step to improve perceived blacks (and for the aesthetics) I'll be using LED backlighting. I have plans to paint the walls dark, and possibly the ceiling. So with that in mind I feel a gray screen is quite necessary to get the black level down to where it should be.

I've taken a look at different paint applications as well as Carl's Screens. 3D is not important to me. I chose the BenQ for the vivid colors and brightness. So the best 2D performance is a must, if it has a high enough gain for 3D, I'd be willing to throw a couple bucks extra at it. My budget at it stands is around $200. If there exists deal like the Carl's gray for around $100 that'd be fantastic. But performance is my number one priority.

I cannot apply anything directly to the wall as it has been deformed, so fabric is basically a must. I'm leaning heavily towards the Carl's Pro Gray for that reason.

 

[MississippiMan]

Carl's Pro Gray has a considerable amount of texture. I've seen it in person and it's not acceptable IMHO.

Carl's Flexi-Gray is on the other hand very smooth With a 144" size at a 12' 6" throw you'd get approx 14 fl with the W1075 and almost the same with the W1070 (13 fl )

At either of those levels 3D will not be a very watchable experience once the brightness is halved. Even if you were willing to scale back to a meager 134" your lumen output at a 12' throw would produce still only produce 15 fl (W1075) and 14 fl (W1070)

Not a big gain for the loss of 10" diagonal. So yeah...you need more Gain if your rooted at the price point of the BenQs

That said, I suggest the Carl's Flexi-White, (1.1 gain) used either "as is" or painted with RS-MaxxMudd LL (1.3 gain)

Here are the differences at 144" and 12' 6" throw

Carls FW raw w/1070
17 fl

Carls FW raw w/1075
19 fl


Carls FW + RS-MM-LL w/1070
19 fl

Carls FW raw w/1075
21 fl

The RS-MM LL would bring 3D back into the "picture" and the Flexi raw would at least offer you the ability to run either PJ in their best mode to produce decent blacks.

Strangely enough, at 134" diagonal and a 12' 6" throw and using RS-MM LL (1.3 gain) both PJs produce 24 fl

Your old Mits must have been pretty deficient in Blacks for the W1070 / 75 to be a massive step up.

Your only real way to improve those numbers is to consider a PJ w/higher lumen and the better blacks you covet. (Epson 3500) The uptick in PJ price would be far less than getting any high gain / high contrast Mfg screen that itself would add some issues you do not want to deal with.

Size is what matters....but not what matters most. Image quality is also up there a few inches above size.

 

[Ftoast]

If you can paint the left/right walls and the ceiling dark, it'll go a long ways for making sure the backlight and screen reflections don't mess with your black-levels onscreen.

Your screen-size and treated room will help blacks enough that a lower-gain grey screen will only be dimming the whole picture. I second MM's suggestion of flexi-white.

At 144" on a 1.0gain surface (about 63ftSquare) the w1070/1075 can hit 14ftL in eco+cinema+BCoff (mounted close) with about 900lm or up to 27ftL with the 1700lm available using FullLamp or SmartEco and user/standard with BCon.
Add in some lamp dimming over time and while 2D still keeps well, 3D could easily fall below 10ft without raising the gain further. Flexi-white's or MMLL's added gain above 1.0 will certainly help down the road for 3D as well as allow eco+cinema to keep looking bright after several thousand hours.
The darker and darker-colored room will also make the projector appear a bit brighter (particularly when the backlight is off).

Any newer Epson below the 5030/5025 isn't going to give appreciably deeper blacks without dimming the entire picture (aka, already dark scenes become overall dimmer). You won't find significant contrast+black improvements over the w1070 unless you grab something like the Panasonic ae8000 (not sure if they're still available), the Sony hw40 or Epson 5025 which all price around $1600-2000 (the Epson 3500/3600 prices around here too, but doesn't nearly match the others' performance).

If you're comfortable making that leap in budget, it wouldn't be wasted in a dark and dark-colored room..if it's beyond means (as I'd guess seeing the screen budget), the Benq is an excellent under $2000 PJ for anyone that can mount just above the screen's top.

The flexi-white will work well as-is and allow you the option to paint at any time if you want.

 

[MississippiMan]

Wow....there is nothing ever in the world that will allow the BenQ to deliver 27 fl at 144" ....even with Brilliant Color employed..

Where are you possibly getting those figures? All the figures OI quoted were using Normal lamp mode, yet you figures match or exceed them in Eco. ????? If you doing your figures simply using a base formula that is based on square footage and supposed brightness figures, figures I have yet to see referenced by any Reviewer, then your figures are skewered....badly.

Every time I see those kinda figures posted...figures that fly in the face of reality as we know it, I cannot help but feel they are prompted by some undue BenQ PJ worship

Simply put, there isn't a chance that any setting available could increase fl levels by over 100%. Gotta give you the benefit of the doubt that you made a typo.

BTW...the Epson 3500 is less than $1500.00. That's a full $300.00 less than the 3600e, and $200.00 less than the discounted Panny 8K
It's also 2500 lumen with 70K:1 On-Off Contrast. And Lens shift. And Super Resolution. A world apart from the W1070 / 75

 

[Ftoast]

I appreciate the benefit of doubt..I'll post some numbers and sources, it might've been a mistake and more eyes can't hurt.

Taken from projectorcentral:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/benq_ht1075_review.htm?page=New-Features

"The HT1075's 2200 lumen specification is 10% above the W1070's 2000 lumens, but our testing revealed very little difference between the two. In our review of the W1070, based on an early production sample, Cinema mode measured 1220 lumens. However, we have had the chance to see other samples of the W1070 since then, and those projectors measured closer to 1700 lumens. The HT1075 measures 1782 lumens in Cinema mode with the lamp at full power and BrilliantColor turned on ..."

Full-lamp (or smart-eco which gets even brighter from several reports) measures 1700lm+ with Brilliantcolor ON.
Eco-lamp, cinema and BC off (dimmest settings from the original ProjectorCentral w1070 review) measured 880lumens.

ProjectorReviews found similar (slightly brighter) results to the 900/1700lm measurements for dark and bright accurate modes.

I'm assuming a 144" 16:9 screen which falls just short of 63ft-square.

900 divided by 63 at 1.0gain shows a little over 14ftL.
1700 divided by 63 at 1.0gain shows 27ftL.

If those were all taken at closest mounting, but you were instead hoping to mount at the farthest back position, you'd lose about 15% of your brightness for that change from min to max (12ftL/23ftL respectively).

That's only on a fresh lamp. Those numbers will all fall over time.

 

[MississippiMan]

I cannot find a review anywhere that states that Brilliant Color is a desirable option nor any posts on AVS alluding to the same. BC has always been a feature Video purists run screaming the other direction from. However, knowing that the figures your repeatedly referencing involve the use of BC, now that does explain more than I would have considered before.

Your other figures are based on Normal lamp modes, and in that mode as well as any of the brighter Modes, the W1070's Blacks go decidedly Grey.

It amounts to the same thing as running a PJ in "Presentation Mode"....or "Blackboard Mode"...while those featured Modes exist, they are in no way desirable Modes to run it for discerned HD content watching . So the numbers they put up are moot.

The figures I post are for Mode operation that is conducive to the best possible watching. Therein lies the difference.

 

[ChainedIkaros]

It was a Mitsubishi HC1600 if I remember correctly. I had two of them at the time and blacks were definitely gray. I'm in no way a BenQ worshipper, and have actually had bad experiences up to this point with product reliability. I bought a factory refurbished W1100 that died on me after the first day. Though after getting it I noticed that the colors were an exceptional trade off for the mediocre black level. Frankly it has so much "pop" to the picture that the only time you'll be noticing the black levels is in a very dark scene. But even then the movie is still watchable as the shadow detail is exceptional.

I'm not able to spend ten thousand bucks on a projector, but I'd throw in the extra for the Sony if I thought I needed it. The HW40ES is undoubtably better in contrast, I'm not trying to say that the BenQ could ever match the black levels of theater projectors basically built around a fantastic contrast. But I'm much more focused on vivid colors. Which BenQ is notorious for, and after trying out my unit I can see why. So given that I cannot blow $6K on an ideal projector with the best of both worlds, I've taken my pick and will work with what I have.

Not trying to blow off Sony's offerings, I think for most movies it will be a much better option. But I'm an animator with a large passion for animated films, and with that kind of source material the BenQ's color reproduction really shines.

 

[ChainedIkaros]

Hmm, so would a better option be a gray 144" screen on "Normal" lamp mode or to use the Flexi White 1.1 gain on Eco? Because that would essentially halve the brightness as well. But if I went with the latter 3D would still be an option if I chose to use it and the PJ itself would be substantially quieter.

 

[MississippiMan]

Well fur shur blacks would seem to be less important.....but,

Deeper contrast means all the more "PoP" & "Sizzle" as far as the difference between the darkest and lightest elements. Also, true Color rendition that is not over saturated lends itself to not overwhelming existing Blacks and Shadow detail.

What cannot be doubted is that for some, and under some circumstances, even appreciable differences can be lost on some folks. And they are feeling not slighted in the least. That then is what personal satisfaction is based on....someone feeling personally satisfied.

But really, making a point by stating you cannot spend $6K on a PJ when there is a raft of PJs available for at / under $2500 that can blow a W1070 to bits isn't a valid point to make. Instead, and ya know that this is really what you mean...what is your real point is is that having spent under $900.00 on a BenQ W1070, and finding the image it delivers perfectly acceptable for your use, that spending any more whatsoever to achieve a "Warmer & Fuzzier" feeling knowing you Blacks and Contrast are significantly better just isn't all that important to you, nor worth the cost increase no matter how small.

In that respect there is no sense in trying to dissuade you or persuade you otherwise, nor should anyone attempt to do so. That is left for the possible future when reality might or might not prove otherwise.

Hmm, so would a better option be a gray 144" screen on "Normal" lamp mode or to use the Flexi White 1.1 gain on Eco? Because that would essentially halve the brightness as well. But if I went with the latter 3D would still be an option if I chose to use it and the PJ itself would be substantially quieter.

At this conjecture...using the Flexi-White for whatever use and in whatever Mode required would be the surest and safest bet.

 

[Ftoast]

I think I've made sure to mention when the measurement is using BC.
The w1070/1075 brilliantcolor doesn't add the typical noise issues or other artifacts of many other models (models using the 1-10steps and those using a business style wheel).
That said, if someone requires the best accuracy, it'll still reach 900/1200lumens (eco/full/smart-eco)..where many other projectors in their most accurate modes land closer to 500/900 (eco/full). The Epson 3000/3500 is a noteworthy exception at 1600/2200, but its black-levels are worse to follow.

The Benq will have very good blacks at the OP's screensize..better can be found, but not without either a dimmer and less accurate picture OR a near tripled price.

The figures you post, MM, tend to be either manufacturers' claimed specs or the livingroom (or even the green dynamic mode) measurement...certainly not cinema+eco measurement.

 

[MississippiMan]

With the Epson products I NEVER use Dynamic Mode....but Living Room Mode is certainly a viable option.

Yes...my figures are based on and represented by Normal Modes, but ONLY those adjudged to be Color accurate and non-detrimental ti image quality and light output. And sometimes they do involve Cinema Modes that also offer acceptable levels of lumen output.

I'm also always quick to point out that Eco Modes will help obtain the stated Blacks and contrast levels usually advertized...or close enough to matter. In "Bright" modes, PJs such as the BenQs and even Epsons, Pannys, JVCs, and SONYs all fall short of their stated levels.

I don't try to either fool people or embellish anything...that sort of thing always catches up to you on Forum boards. Sheesh...it gets tossed at you even if you don't !

 

[Ftoast]

With the Epson products I NEVER use Dynamic Mode....but Living Room Mode is certainly a viable option.

Yes...my figures are based on and represented by Normal Modes, but ONLY those adjudged to be Color accurate and non-detrimental ti image quality and light output.

I'm always quick to point out that Eco Modes will help obtain the stated Blacks and contrast levels usually advertized...or close enough to matter. In "Bright" modes, PJs such as the BenQs and even Epsons, Pannys, JVCs, and SONYs all fall short of their stated levels.

I can totally agree with the livingroom modes being good high-brightness specs to go by, that's also a good way to think of the 1070 using cinema+BC..its color/white disparity is smaller with BC on than most DLPs with BC off.

While eco-lamp modes will dim the entire picture and take blacks down with that, as a general rule contrast (and perceived blacks because of contrast) actually measure slightly better in the brightest settings (once brightness levels are adjusted to not be artificially grey-ing blacks). Projectors with fixed iris options certainly gain contrast benefits with darker iris settings, but those without nearly always measure the opposite. It's not a large difference either way, but I've seen you mention this before so it seemed relevant.
In either case, manufacturer claimed contrast tends to fall short by 10X-20X for a majority of newer models (JVC seems to be the only one getting close). The 10,000:1-30,000:1 tend to measure 700:1-2,000:1 while the 50,000:1-100,000:1 trend toward 4,000:1-6,000:1 in reality...and that's in a good dark room. In a room with light-colored walls, you won't be able to get contrast much over 1000:1 with ANY projector and any significant lights washing the screen make 100:1 a more likely happening.

To the OP; the w1070/1075's very high ansi contrast and simultaneously bright+accurate colors will matter the most for bright and animated content. The white screen's added brightness will look better at the size than the flexi-grey..particularly with dark-colored walls/ceiling.
If you already have a w1070/1075 that you can look at somewhere, test it out with some animated content with Brilliantcolor on and off to see if the difference is something you like/dislike.

I personally don't like BC and am happy the Benq doesn't depend on it as highly as most, but I also didn't find the w1070's use of BC to look nearly as bad as most do..so it's simultaneously less vital AND less bothersome when used. Still worth checking out, though animated stuff tends to be bright enough to get away without it.

 

[ChainedIkaros]

But really, making a point by stating you cannot spend $6K on a PJ when there is a raft of PJs available for at / under $2500 that can blow a W1070 to bits isn't a valid point to make. Instead, and ya know that this is really what you mean...what is your real point is is that having spent under $900.00 on a BenQ W1070, and finding the image it delivers perfectly acceptable for your use, that spending any more whatsoever to achieve a "Warmer & Fuzzier" feeling knowing you Blacks and Contrast are significantly better just isn't all that important to you, nor worth the cost increase no matter how small.

In that respect there is no sense in trying to dissuade you or persuade you otherwise, nor should anyone attempt to do so. That is left for the possible future when reality might or might not prove otherwise.

I'd imagine this is mostly the truth, because the best I've been using since the Mitsubishi is an Epson 8350. Truth be told I'm definitely not a cinemaphile, and the BenQ will probably leave me happy the next four years until the next "big thing" demolishes it. But realistically, for the one aspect I am interested in (color accuracy) it does close to as well as most eyes could distinguish. Contrast will not affect me as much as the average user as I'm viewing animated content.

Watching an action movie where a brightly lit torch is dropped down a dark cave will look fantastic on a Sony and mediocre on the BenQ due to the blacks in comparison to the brightness of the colors. However, when watching materials such as The Lion King or a similar animated film you will notice there is not much negative space in the picture for the blacks to flex their muscle. When watching something like The Avengers where plenty of black scenes will be present do give it a more cinematic feel, then you want to use a projector capable of giving you such an experience. In my case the only negative space presented in the scene will mostly always be retinas or eyelashes, which even on a business projector will look pitch black in comparison to the rest of the image. It's rare that somebody would spend four figures on a display just for this purpose so of course it's rare that you'd hear somebody say "for the minimal gain I'm not willing to purchase the next step up". But this is in all honestly, for no other purpose than viewing animated content. The only reason I chose to upgrade in the first place is because I wanted full HD. So hopefully I'm not viewed as an ignorant individual with his nose stuck up at the sight of a higher end projector, and rather I'm viewed as someone with a really uncommon use for a theater projector, lol.

 

[ChainedIkaros]

I can totally agree with the livingroom modes being good high-brightness specs to go by, that's also a good way to think of the 1070 using cinema+BC..its color/white disparity is smaller with BC on than most DLPs with BC off.

While eco-lamp modes will dim the entire picture and take blacks down with that, as a general rule contrast (and perceived blacks because of contrast) actually measure slightly better in the brightest settings (once brightness levels are adjusted to not be artificially grey-ing blacks). Projectors with fixed iris options certainly gain contrast benefits with darker iris settings, but those without nearly always measure the opposite. It's not a large difference either way, but I've seen you mention this before so it seemed relevant.

To the OP; the w1070/1075's very high ansi contrast and simultaneously bright+accurate colors will matter the most for bright and animated content. The white screen's added brightness will look better at the size than the flexi-grey..particularly with dark-colored walls/ceiling.
If you already have a w1070/1075 that you can look at somewhere, test it out with some animated content with Brilliantcolor on and off to see if the difference is something you like/dislike.

I personally don't like BC and am happy the Benq doesn't depend on it as highly as most, but I also didn't find the w1070's use of BC to look nearly as bad as most do..so it's simultaneously less vital AND less bothersome when used. Still worth checking out, though animated stuff tends to be bright enough to get away without it.

That's exactly what I was thinking on the topic of animated content. I haven't used the W1070 or HT1075 itself but I used the W1100, which has lower contrast and a lower speed color wheel but has a higher quality lens assembly. I didn't notice much difference with BC on or off besides overall brightness, and since the thing was already a light cannon I left it off.