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I finally figured out that the "DMA" you are in is HARLINGEN, TX (East Coast of TX, just above the Border) so I could look that up in www.rabbitears.info Market Listings. FOX/CW Networks share KFXD on Ch20, which is your weakest (NM = 30.9 dB) Major Network and COULD be difficult to receive Indoors. Since you have numerous VERY STRONG UHF Stations, you should NOT use an Amplified Antenna.

Ch13 is the ONLY Hi-VHF channel listed in the GREEN and YELLOW bands in your TVFool Report...and with NM = 57.8 dB is going to blast through pretty much ANY Antenna you pick...even if advertised for UHF-ONLY.....so you can use pretty much ANY or the BETTER NON-AMPLIFIED UHF Antennas listed in the fol. Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hd...hdtv-need-better-stronger-antenna-signal.html
PS: Although there are SEVEN 100 kW FM Stations within 20-miles of your Zipcode location (per www.FMFool.com), Ch13 is strong enough to NOT be affected.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I finally figured out that the "DMA" you are in is HARLINGEN, TX (East Coast of TX, just above the Border) so I could look that up in www.rabbitears.info Market Listings. FOX/CW Networks share KFXD on Ch20, which is your weakest (NM = 30.9 dB) Major Network and COULD be difficult to receive Indoors. Since you have numerous VERY STRONG UHF Stations, you should NOT use an Amplified Antenna.

Ch13 is the ONLY Hi-VHF channel listed in the GREEN and YELLOW bands in your TVFool Report...and with NM = 57.8 dB is going to blast through pretty much ANY Antenna you pick...even if advertised for UHF-ONLY.....so you can use pretty much ANY or the BETTER NON-AMPLIFIED UHF Antennas listed in the fol. Thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hd...hdtv-need-better-stronger-antenna-signal.html
PS: Although there are SEVEN 100 kW FM Stations within 20-miles of your Zipcode location (per www.FMFool.com), Ch13 is strong enough to NOT be affected.
Maybe the Mods can move these 2 threads into one.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-local-hdtv-info-reception/1945289-rancho-viejo-texas-hdtv.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I provided the fol. answer(s) for "Best" UHF+Hi-VHF" Antenna:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hd...ter-stronger-antenna-signal.html#post32823897

Here is a revision for UHF (Only)...and very strong Hi-VHF channels that are going to come in no matter what:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/25-hd...r-stronger-antenna-signal-2.html#post32963817

Here is a response from my other thread.

Here is what I have tried so far.

I bought a MoHu Leaf, 50 mile with amp. It pulled in 23 stations in one location and 26 in another. This did pull in KRGV perfectly. It did not pull in FOX HD, this is a problem for me.

What I learned:

KFXV-LD (FOX HD) is a Low Power Digital TV Station. It has a 37.2 Mile Contour, I am about 32 miles from the Tower.

A friend of mine, further from this tower gets this signal with an old style antenna in his attic.

I have contacted Winegard and spoke to them about this and would really like an indoor or attic mount solution.

This will be delivered tomorrow, Friday. Winegard FL6550A; http://www.winegard.com/flatwave/flatwave-tech-specs/ I hope that works for me to get the FOX HD.

Any other help is appriciated.
 

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KFXV-LD and KXFX-CA are both on real channel 20, so you might have a co-channel interference problem.
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=station_search&callsign=kxfx-ca

http://www.rabbitears.info/search.php?request=zip_search&zipcode=78575&miles=60&address=&lat=&lon=&dbtype=dBm&height=

You need to be able to receive whichever one is at least 16 dB stronger than the other.

ATSC Recommended Practice:
Receiver Performance Guidelines
Document A/74:2010, 7 April 2010
http://www.atsc.org/cms/standards/a_74-2010.pdf

5.4.1 Co-Channel Rejection
The receiver should meet or exceed the following thresholds for rejection of co-channel interference at the following desired signal levels (Table 5.1).



There is only about a 5 dB difference between them at your location, but they are in different directions. A highly directional antenna might work if it doesn't pick up reflections in front of it from the other direction.
 

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Good point that might not have been that obvious after I moved my response to the OTHER thread and made it a bit more Generic.

To receive FOX/CW on Ch20, you need a Directional Antenna (whatever you can AFFORD and FITS...e.g. Any 4-Bay) pointed towards 154-deg (re True North) and hope Multipath isn't severe enough to affect Local STRONG signal reception from the BACK of the Antenna. If you have problems that can't be solved by changing to a different Antenna Location, you may need a Rotator or TWO Antennas (4-Bay & Mohu....or Flatwave) with TWO Coax downleads connected to an RF A/B Switch.

PS: There is probably very little difference in UHF performance between Mohu Leaf and W-G Flatwave...which, of course are Bi-Directional....unless you build your own Reflector for them.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The Winegard FL6550A did not pull in the FOX HD 67.1 either, not inside or outside, it did pull in many more channels, 36, than the Mohu Leaf. You say channel 20?? Not 67.1??

I will keep trying!
 

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Channel 20 is the REAL channel number that is used by the transmitter. Channel 67.1 is the VIRTUAL channel number, which is a carryover from analog TV days. There is no longer a channel 67 used by any TV transmitters. The FCC sold the TV channels above 51 to commercial interests at auction for other uses like cellular.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3df1f05df78edc7d
 

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60 miles............ So they say............ This has been difficult.
I would try a directional bowtie with reflector aimed at all the 280 deg +/- channels. The reflector would probably get rid of the other FOX channel at 154deg. The reflector may help pick up the 31.5 mile channel without a preamp. There is a commercial one like this at Walmart, Antennas Direct DB4e Enhanced DB4 Long-Range Bowtie UHF DTV Antenna .

Or, if I were you and handy with a scewdriver, make on myself. Checkout this website for instructions and kits. Read the materials on which model make first, there are three depending on vhf/uhf bands. To find it, Google the search term "Search the term, DIY TV Antennas 4 bays, 2 bays, Kits and more". Good luck
 

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I've posted results for over 600 different TV Antenna designs....so I'm pretty sure what is possible and what is NOT.

W-G FL6550A is the BIGGEST in their so-called "FlatWave" Antenna line: 14"H x 14"W x 4"D...which means it has some sort of REFLECTOR and although I don't know what is inside their "Black Box" (literally), it is BIG ENOUGH to contain the fol. FULL-SIZE H2 (Optimized) 2-Bay Bowtie Antenna, although with 4"D vs H2's 5"D...which would increase Gain by a few tenths of a dB at the expense of higher SWR (i.e. Mismatch Loss):
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/multibay/2bayrefl/uhfh22baybowtievarrr

And if it's something ELSE, I think it would have only a bit Lower Gain....so UHF Raw Gain = 11.7 to 13.8 dBi is probably the UPPER LIMIT on the FL6550A's Gain Curve. Also note the H2's significant Hi-VHF Band Raw Gain, although SWR isn't all that great (RLH2 with a Hi-VHF Resonator Loop fixes that):
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/multibay/2bayrefl/uhfh22baybowtievarrr

Compare above HD to other DIY and commercial Antennas. For example CM4221HD (Hacked) only provides 1 dB additional UHF Gain, with much worse Hi-VHF performance that has MORE Gain to the REAR on ALL but Ch12:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/multibay/2bayrefl
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/multibay/4bayrefl

So use UHF Raw Gain = 11.7 to 13.8 dBi as an UPPER LIMIT for Antenna Gain and NM (Net Margin) from TVFool for each desired weak channel when calculating Fade Margin (which needs to be 10-20 dB for reliable long-term Reliability:
FM = NM + Antenna Gain - System Noise Figure

This is explained in more detail here, with links to Spread Sheets (Chart comparing Preamp NF's for different length Coax runs seems to be missing):
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=1480896
 

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It looks about SAME as 12.8"Wx12.0"H FL-5000/5500 Flatwave that RamKat measured and prepared a preliminary 4nec2 model...which nikiml and I then revised into a final form....UHF Raw Gain is a disappointing 3-5 dBi and Hi-VHF is about 2.6 dBi with high SWR:
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=2288113

Adding 4 Reflector Rods (RR) SHOULD increase UHF Raw Gain by not quite 3 dB. Also note that Average Joe measured a Depth of 5-in vs W-G Spec Sheet which sez 4-in. So the slightly larger version with 4 RR's will probably provide 6-8 dBi in UHF Band and close to 3-4 dBi in Hi-VHF Band (with high SWR). [I can Re-Run an Optimization searching for the "best" RR length and placements.]

That's not even CLOSE to Optimized H2 mentioned above....and as I mentioned above, RLH2 with a Hi-VHF Resonator Loop fixed the high SWR problem and actually improved UHF Raw Gain to about 8-9 dBi and Hi-VHF Gain of about 4 dBi with Excellent SWR under 2.3:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/loops/hu2baylooprlh212x10norefl
RLH2 Optimization Runs with Reflector Rods are T.B.D. and would require a box about the size of W-G Squareshooter, which although TWICE the size of the Flatwave Air, only provides 4.5 dB [i or d???] average UHF Gain.
 
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