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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Folks,

What is the best know method to fish a wire (any wire... coax or speaker wire in my case) from the living room in 1st floor to crawl space. The biggest problem here is that there is cement (concrete) foundation under each of the walls.. if not , I could have cut out a hole in the drywall and drilled straight down with an auger bit. Does the cement foundation rule out the possibility of cutting on the drywall or baseboard ? Can someone point me to an article or your invention !!

?

Thanks,

-Jai
 

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I'm having difficulty visualizing the construction you describe. How do the floor joists attach to the concrete walls you describe? Usually they sit on a board that sits on top of the foundation. That usually gives you the thickness of the floor joists between the foundation and sub-floor to work with.


Are you saying that the bottom plate of the wall sits on top of the foundation? If so, you've got at least the thickness of the bottom plate to work with and I imagine you could drill a hole through it.


Is it possible to open up the wall (hole) and drill a hole through the bottom plate at an angle (in the direction you want to go) that would miss the top of the foundation?
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by jmcomp124
Folks,

What is the best know method to fish a wire (any wire... coax or speaker wire in my case) from the living room in 1st floor to crawl space. The biggest problem here is that there is cement (concrete) foundation under each of the walls.. if not , I could have cut out a hole in the drywall and drilled straight down with an auger bit. Does the cement foundation rule out the possibility of cutting on the drywall or baseboard ? Can someone point me to an article or your invention !!

?

Thanks,

-Jai
From your post....it sounds like your living-room wall is an outside wall....
I need you to confirm that.


In my area....we have a house construction technique that involves pouring the cement for the foundation before the floor joist are covered with the sub floor sheeting material.

The cement for the concrete wall is poured through the exposed floor joists and the floor is sheeted after.

The floor joists end up embedded in the concrete.

It's just away of anchoring the foundation to the floor.

Is this your type of construction?????




I'm an electrical contractor...I've done this before...I need more info to help.


Which way are the floor joists running relative to the foundation wall???

Same direction....or coming out at 90deg from the foundation wall???


brian
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by BIGmouthinDC
Brian, In my area a code requirement is for all wood coming in contact with concrete to be of a pressure treated variety. In the method you are describing how to they address that issue?
In your area [I'm sure] there will be a VERY GOOD reason for needing that requirement.


In my area of Canada it is not done because [perhaps] the operating conditions must be different than in other area's of the Continent.

I have no other explanation.

We been using that technique for over 60 years....so far no problems.

It's not done here...because there's no need [for us].

I have no idea what type of construction is done in Jai's area.

I had trouble understanding his description in his first post.

In order for me to provide any further help...I need him to provide a better description.



brian
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by ve4can
From your post....it sounds like your living-room wall is an outside wall....

I need you to confirm that.


In my area....we have a house construction technique that involves pouring the cement for the foundation before the floor joist are covered with the sub floor sheeting material.

The cement for the concrete wall is poured through the exposed floor joists and the floor is sheeted after.

The floor joists end up embedded in the concrete.

It's just away of anchoring the foundation to the floor.


Is this your type of construction?????




I'm an electrical contractor...I've done this before...I need more info to help.


Which way are the floor joists running relative to the foundation wall???

Same direction....or coming out at 90deg from the foundation wall???


brian
Brian,

Yes the living room is in an outside wall. I will get the keys to the house tomorrow so I can go under the crawl space and look for more details. Please tell me what should I look for ? I do not have the background to answer your second question about the type of construction. I can also take digital pictures and mail them to you. I appreciate your help.

Thanks,

-Jai
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by BIGmouthinDC
I'm having difficulty visualizing the construction you describe. How do the floor joists attach to the concrete walls you describe? Usually they sit on a board that sits on top of the foundation. That usually gives you the thickness of the floor joists between the foundation and sub-floor to work with.


Are you saying that the bottom plate of the wall sits on top of the foundation? If so, you've got at least the thickness of the bottom plate to work with and I imagine you could drill a hole through it.


Is it possible to open up the wall (hole) and drill a hole through the bottom plate at an angle (in the direction you want to go) that would miss the top of the foundation?
Big,

If there is a concrete slab that extends a couple of inches inside, yes, then I have to drill a hole through the bottom plate in an angle. A flexible Auger bit as I read can go straight down but I am not sure how one would drill a hole angled inwards. If I cut the drywall it will be a small hole maybe 4x4 inches and I don't understand how a drill can be used to drill inwards. Do I have to go the the crawl space and drill upwards rather than from the living room downwards ? DO I need a right angled drill ? What tools would I need to do this job ?


Brian and Big,

I am a fast learner and willing to work hard to fix this, I hope you guys can help me out here.

Thanks,

-Jai
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
As I understand there are three possible ways of reaching the crawl space from the living room...


*********************

1) Through a cut hole in the drywall

2) Remove a small part of the baseboard and cut the drywall there

3) Slit the carpet for a few inches from the way and carefully drill down and rework the carpet after running the wires.

***********************



1) and 2) maynot be possible at all for outerwalls because of the solution... is that right ?


3) WIll be possible but is not as clean a solution as 1) and 2)


2) Maybe the best solution as a baseboard could be replaced and cover the holes as if they were never there in the first case... is that right ?


1) is a clean solution, but leaves behind a permanent mark that is hard to cover. Please clear up any misconceptions that I may have.

Thanks,

-Jai
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Other responses:

***************

by Jay Wilson

==========

Aren't there floor joists on top of the concrete? Does the bottom plate of the wall actually sit on top of the concrete? I know in my father's house, the floor joists went in, a floor (plywood) went down, then the wall. This allows, in his case with 10" floor joists, a 10" area for him to do exactly what you suggest...drill through the plate and end up in the floor joist cavity.


by Mhe4

=======

I presume from your asking the question that your house is not like mine. My walls are sitting on the cement foundation, but the floor is raised above that by varying amounts depending on which part of the house (it is built on a sloping lot). I was able to cut a hole in the drywall and then I drilled up from below (finding the proper location by measurements).


That probably doesn't help you. Sorry.


by bichmgnt

=========

My house is sitting on a brick foundation but there is a double plate of 2x6 that sits on top of the brick which is the lowest part of the outer wall. I drew the foundation and walls to scale and figured out that if I angled a drill bit up at forty-five degrees at a particular point on the two plates that it would come up in the center of the wall. Drilled five holes that way and it worked every time.


Good luck.


Steve


====================

-Jai
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by jmcomp124
As I understand there are three possible ways of reaching the crawl space from the living room...


*********************

1) Through a cut hole in the drywall

2) Remove a small part of the baseboard and cut the drywall there

3) Slit the carpet for a few inches from the way and carefully drill down and rework the carpet after running the wires.

***********************
Hi Jai


When you go to the house take a hammer and a [clean] nail/spike along with you.

You can 1/2 drive the nail through the carpet and floor in the area where you wish to run your wire down to the crawl space.
It will serve as a beacon down in the crawl space.

In most carpet types: when you pull the nail out.....you won't see the hole.


I assuming that the installation will be concealed by HT system or TV system and not visible after everything in the room is set up.

SO....
1...the drywall can be repaired and repainted.

2...the baseboard can be altered.

3...the carpet can be cut with a sharp knife and a hole drilled.


The best method should be the one that cause the least repair and work.


By the way.....where are these wires going???

What are you going to do at the other end???

Is everything on the same wall.....or another wall/location???




If you or a friend has a electronic camera.......pictures are worth a 1000 words each.

The pictures can be sent by email.


brian
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Brian,

How long should this "Beacon nail" be to pass thru the carpet floors and insulation and peek into the crawl space ? I will try to get some pictures tomorrow... I have a digicam and adobe photoshop to compress the pics.

Yes the installation will be concealed. However, when we eventually sell the house in a few years, it should be repairable as not all buyers are HT crazy like me :)

Thanks,

-Jai
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by jmcomp124
Brian,

How long should this "Beacon nail" be to pass thru the carpet floors and insulation and peek into the crawl space ?



Oh!!! I was assuming a full heated basement and no insulation or vapor barrier.....


OK! still no problem...use a standard 31/2" or 4" spike to make the hole through the floor......pull the nail out [which will leave the hole]...

Insert a [straight] long steel rod through the insulation.

The rod can be welding rod from HOME DEPOT or a piece of coat hanger as long as it's straight and strong enough to penetrate the insulation.

Make sure whatever you use is clean so that you don't stain the carpet.



Quote:
I will try to get some pictures tomorrow... I have a digicam
GREAT!!! THAT's THE BEST WAY TO GO

I can send you a "PM" on this forum and I give you my email address

My email can handle large files....so if you can send them, I'll get them.

Let me know what works the best for you.

I'll check this thread from time to time.

I won't be available for awhile ....going out...back on-line tonite.



brian
 

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I've spent years fishing wires through house for security systems, often I see home owners make the same typical mistake, the spend hours, days contemplating how to attack the problem and their first few attempts are futile and finally a couple of days later they get it done. With all that time spent you could have patched a sizable hole 3 times. I'm not trying to sound flammatory or condescending, all I'm saying is don't be afraid to make a hole.


With that said, if it were me (and like a couple of other people have posted, its hard to understand the exact situation) I would take a 24 inch long drill bit 3/16 in diameter, position it where your basemolding and drywall meet, angle it as steep as possible so you drill as straight down as possible. It may be easy to first drill straight into (or at less of an angle down) the wall to make a hole through the sheet rock and then start working the drill bit as straight down as possible. If the wall has insulation, stop the drill bit as soon as it goes through the drywall, with the bit not spinning, push it down the wall cavity until you hit the floor, then start the drill again, otherwise you'll get a wade of fiberglass wrapped around the bit - not the end of the world just a pain. With that done, and the drill still in the hole, go into the crawl space and look. If you have a helper, have him cyle the drill or move it up and down slightly, while you look or listen for where the bit is, use that as a guide where to drill next. Sorry, if this makes no sense, its so much easier to show then describe with language.


There are other tools such as flex bits that with some practice do let you drill backwards but they're not cheap. There's also some metal bracket thing that you shove in the wall that bends the bit back (haven't used it)



Many times, especially for CATV we just drill right through the floor, just in front of the baseboard. Its hidden by the TV. I know this sounds half ass, but that way the excess cable can be pushed down into the crawl space. It works fine, many customers actually prefer it.



Hope this helps, good luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
tlehotsky,

Point well taken and respect your experience. However, did you realize that this hole will be on a wall that is an outside wall with concrete under it ? Unless the bit can be made to drill backward I see no way to avoid the concrete if I were to drill the way you suggest by positioning it where the basemolding meets the drywall. I maybe missing something so please clarify if you considered this situation of the hole on a wall that is an outside wall.

Thanks,

-Jai
 

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I had this problem in my family room...an outside wall sitting right on the foundation. No way to drill down into joist bay, you can't get enough angle on the auger bit. The only way we could do it was to come off the wall to the floor, remove a section of baseboard, drill through the floor as close as possible to the wall and still get into the bay, bring the wire up behind where the baseboard goes and under the drywall. We also had to cut a channel in the back of the baseboard to allow for the wire. HTH.


jack
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by jmcomp124
tlehotsky,

Point well taken and respect your experience. However, did you realize that this hole will be on a wall that is an outside wall with concrete under it ? Unless the bit can be made to drill backward I see no way to avoid the concrete if I were to drill the way you suggest by positioning it where the basemolding meets the drywall. I maybe missing something so please clarify if you considered this situation of the hole on a wall that is an outside wall.

Thanks,

-Jai
Hi Jai

I'm back
I sent you a PM with my email address.

It might in your interest to also have tlehotsky on board.

Alarm people are always faced with your type of problem.

Send him a PM.


Hi tlehotsky

I am an electrical contractor up in Canada.

Jai is going have some pictures of the underside of the floor and concrete wall of this crawl space.



brian
 

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in response to jkohms post, 1st I wouldn't use an augerbit, just a plain spiral bit, 2nd, it is entirelly possible to do this.


With a longer bit, like 24 inches or 36 inches the drill and chuck are high enough from the point where the bit enters the wall to drill at a sharp angle down(otherwise the spinning chuck scuffs the wall.) It takes a little practice but to improve on this, once you drill through the drywall, push the bit down to the bottom plate, and when you just start to feel the bit take into the wood, push down hard on the drill an d you can make a spiral bit (better still a flex bit, but won't work with an auger bit) bend. By forcing it to bend in the right direction you can get the bit to drill straight down. You may need to make the penetration in the drywall a little bigger to give the bit room to bend, thats why a 3/8" flex bit has a 3/16" shaft after the first 4" or so. NOTE, if you bend it too much, it will snap
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Larry,

Thanks for the diagram. I am not sure if I will be able to post pics anytime in the next few days as I will be without broadband for a couple of weeks. The computer will be disconnected tomorrow night. Will keep you guys posted once everything is up and running.

Thank you all for your kindness and support.

-Jai
 
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