[JhonNYC]

I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the right forum, but here it goes:


I have a large CD collection and would like to make backups of many of them to another media ( CDs? ) that will give me the best quality and also durability. I assume that probably it would be by copying them to another CDs. I'm looking for recomendations on types and brands that have pretty good quality and don't cost a fortune. I also have a bunch of LPs and Tapes that I would like to transfer as well to more durable media without lossing on quality. Thanks for the feedback.


Jhon

 

[lexiconthx]

cd-r's have a shelf life so be careful here. I have come to the point were I like to backup my music to lossless flac and put it on usb hard drives. You may want to get a couple of usb drives as they can go bad also... Good to keep one off site though in case of a disaster.

 

[JhonNYC]

Thanks for the pointers.

 

[crackhammer]

I second lexiconthx.

The CDs you buy at the store are 'pressed' and the one you make at home, are 'burned' and both these processes are considerably different so burned CDs have shelf life of about 5 years, could be more if you have used better quality but my experience is about 5 years (Stored vertically in cool and dry place, away from light)


I backed up all my audio CDs to flac using Exact Audio Copy and stored the collection at 3 places on the top of the world (so if earth shakes here, other part is safe)


Before you head on to this loseless ripping project, make sure you have a right CD/DVD drive. All drives are not made same, do research on them.

 

[Anubisrocks]



Quote:
Originally Posted by lexiconthx /forum/post/16982144


cd-r's have a shelf life so be careful here. I have come to the point were I like to backup my music to lossless flac and put it on usb hard drives. You may want to get a couple of usb drives as they can go bad also... Good to keep one off site though in case of a disaster.

At the risk of sounding like a complete twit: What is flac?

 

[WilliamZX11]



Quote:
Originally Posted by crackhammer /forum/post/16998987


I second lexiconthx.

The CDs you buy at the store are 'pressed' and the one you make at home, are 'burned' and both these processes are considerably different so burned CDs have shelf life of about 5 years, could be more if you have used better quality but my experience is about 5 years (Stored vertically in cool and dry place, away from light)

That's odd, I have been burning CD's since 1997, and have yet to have a single disc fail. I even have one that I have left in the glove box of my car since I bought it in 1998, as a durability test. It too still plays fine, after suffering temps from -15f to 170f.


I know they don't have the durability of pressed CD's, especially when it comes to scratches and damage. But the shelf life is a lot longer than 5 years.

 

[Ron Party]



Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamZX11 /forum/post/17002218


That's odd, I have been burning CD's since 1997, and have yet to have a single disc fail. I even have one that I have left in the glove box of my car since I bought it in 1998, as a durability test. It too still plays fine, after suffering temps from -15f to 170f.


I know they don't have the durability of pressed CD's, especially when it comes to scratches and damage. But the shelf life is a lot longer than 5 years.

Ditto.

 

[geekhd]



Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamZX11 /forum/post/17002218


But the shelf life is a lot longer than 5 years.

It may be more like 50 years once burned.

 

[Zues]

The most important thing is you are making true lossless backups. This can be tricky. It's easy to end up with mp3 versions instead.

 

[crackhammer]



Quote:
Originally Posted by geekhd /forum/post/17003094


It may be more like 50 years once burned.

Don't want to start a full fledged war. IMHO, 50 years is 'bit too stretched'. I managed to find some government archival agency's protocols for archival specifications (thats where the storage conditions came from, in the previous post). They don't recommend CD backups more than 3 years. Yes, CDs could last longer but your luck. I have CDs burned since 1999, some of them are still working fine and those burned in 2003 are giving errors. I never used crappy media.

 

[KnuGuy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubisrocks /forum/post/17001836


At the risk of sounding like a complete twit: What is flac?

http://flac.sourceforge.net/

 

[JhonNYC]

The idea of backing them up to usb drives sounds a lot more practical than burning CDs since I will have to worry about additional storage. I'm aware that we'll need to migrate the music from one old technology to the new ones every few years. Right know, I only have my PC's DVD drive, do I need a better one? If so, which ones would you recommend?


Jhon

 

[JhonNYC]



Quote:
Originally Posted by lexiconthx /forum/post/16982144


cd-r's have a shelf life so be careful here. I have come to the point were I like to backup my music to lossless flac and put it on usb hard drives. You may want to get a couple of usb drives as they can go bad also... Good to keep one off site though in case of a disaster.

Hi Lexicon:


Lossless flac sounds pretty good, my only concern though is about the longevity of this freebie: is it going to be around 5 or 10 years from now?


Jhon

 

[lexiconthx]



Quote:
Originally Posted by JhonNYC /forum/post/17063554


Hi Lexicon:


Lossless flac sounds pretty good, my only concern though is about the longevity of this freebie: is it going to be around 5 or 10 years from now?


Jhon

Flac is growing in popularity... While it is still a fairly new format, I can see it sticking around for a long time. Wav isn't going anywhere so you're 100% safe with that however your files will be much larger in size. MP3 isn't going anywhere but lets face it they sound like crap... Space is cheap (you can get a 1tb external rive for less then $150) so I would stick with wav or flac... You can always convert flac to wav also just keep in mind that would be a long process if you had a ton of music... I also recommend getting a second drive and keeping it off site as a backup... Anyway hope this helps.

 

[JhonNYC]



Quote:
Originally Posted by lexiconthx /forum/post/17068198


Flac is growing in popularity... While it is still a fairly new format, I can see it sticking around for a long time. Wav isn't going anywhere so you're 100% safe with that however your files will be much larger in size. MP3 isn't going anywhere but lets face it they sound like crap... Space is cheap (you can get a 1tb external rive for less then $150) so I would stick with wav or flac... You can always convert flac to wav also just keep in mind that would be a long process if you had a ton of music... I also recommend getting a second drive and keeping it off site as a backup... Anyway hope this helps.

This is going to be a long process anyway since I have about 1,000 CDs going back about 20 yrs. By the way, what is the average longevity for a music CD pressed in the early 1990s and those pressed now?


My main concern is about high quality archival of the source since pressed CDs and/or technology become obsolete. It looks like we're in an exponential growth of new technologies that will require constant migration from the older to the newer. Of course, no one has the resources to re-build they music collection on every new format/technology that comes around.


Jhon

 

[lexiconthx]



Quote:
Originally Posted by JhonNYC /forum/post/17069267


This is going to be a long process anyway since I have about 1,000 CDs going back about 20 yrs. By the way, what is the average longevity for a music CD pressed in the early 1990s and those pressed now?


My main concern is about high quality archival of the source since pressed CDs and/or technology become obsolete. It looks like we're in an exponential growth of new technologies that will require constant migration from the older to the newer. Of course, no one has the resources to re-build they music collection on every new format/technology that comes around.


Jhon

Pressed cds properly stored will last well over 100 years. I think you will be fine with those. Technology is always changing and I think data files are the future. I think we will start seeing more high rez lossless codacs in the future. The good thing is for the most part it is easy to retain backwards compatibility when the medium doesn't change. Kind of how a blue ray player will play standard dvds and cds. A standard dvd will not look like a blue ray but you can at least still use it. The good thing is drive space is so cheap now you can go with a lossless format. A cd in wave format will take around 700meg of space if it is full. You are right tough you have a big project ahead. Should be great when it is all setup though. No more looking for cds. You can even setup a nice pc with a touch screen and have a sweet setup for parties. I have been thinking of doing this myself but I don't think I'm ready for the time comment.

 

[Anubisrocks]

Personally, I have to have the tactile feel of CDs or something. I think I get a sense of ownership with that or something. (Not "rights" ownership of course, just I paid for it and want to listen to it anytime I want type of ownership)

Then there is SQ. MP3s for instance have terrible SQ now matter what you do to them outside of converting them back to wave or something. I know we are talking "lossless formats" here so I don't need to worry about MP3 with that in mind.

I'm wondering though if any of these other "backup methods" are as reliable as CDs assuming one doesn't intentionally scratch or damage ones CDs. I was thinking of perhaps backing up CDs to HDDs, but then pressed CDs have such a long shelf life they will outlive me easily and HDDs are more sensitive and can crash and stuff. ("burned" CDs can have a good 25 year shelf life or better if one uses the right media such as premium TYs. Using cheap Riteks or something your looking at 10 years at best). So I have a big project myself just reburning some CDs I made using cheap Riteks onto TYs!! (about 200 or so)

Personally, I do not like the direction we are moving in this area or even video content either. I feel we are moving towards "you pay for it, but get nothing except the right to listen to it. However, you can only listen to it once and have to pay again to listen again. Plus you don't have the right to play it at a party or something or have more than one person listen at the same time if they have not paid as well or something like that.

I prefer paying for a CD and taking it home and listening to it there or in the car or with more than one person or whatever. If I get too many CDs and have to build an addition on the house then so be it. (I don't think it would actually come to that, but you know what I mean).


Just my personal feeling on it.

 

[lexiconthx]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubisrocks /forum/post/17073857


Personally, I have to have the tactile feel of CDs or something. I think I get a sense of ownership with that or something. (Not "rights" ownership of course, just I paid for it and want to listen to it anytime I want type of ownership)

Then there is SQ. MP3s for instance have terrible SQ now matter what you do to them outside of converting them back to wave or something. I know we are talking "lossless formats" here so I don't need to worry about MP3 with that in mind.

I'm wondering though if any of these other "backup methods" are as reliable as CDs assuming one doesn't intentionally scratch or damage ones CDs. I was thinking of perhaps backing up CDs to HDDs, but then pressed CDs have such a long shelf life they will outlive me easily and HDDs are more sensitive and can crash and stuff. ("burned" CDs can have a good 25 year shelf life or better if one uses the right media such as premium TYs. Using cheap Riteks or something your looking at 10 years at best). So I have a big project myself just reburning some CDs I made using cheap Riteks onto TYs!! (about 200 or so)

Personally, I do not like the direction we are moving in this area or even video content either. I feel we are moving towards "you pay for it, but get nothing except the right to listen to it. However, you can only listen to it once and have to pay again to listen again. Plus you don't have the right to play it at a party or something or have more than one person listen at the same time if they have not paid as well or something like that.

I prefer paying for a CD and taking it home and listening to it there or in the car or with more than one person or whatever. If I get too many CDs and have to build an addition on the house then so be it. (I don't think it would actually come to that, but you know what I mean).


Just my personal feeling on it.

I couldn't agree with you more... I rarely buy music online. I prefer buying the cd/sacd as well. Not only for the sound quality but I like the physical media as well, I actually enjoy the book that comes with the cd and the artwork... Sorry it doesn't look s good on a computer screen. However I like to digitize my music so it is easier to find when I play it back. Given a good program and cd reader the wav file sounds identical to the cd.... The people that say they hear a difference are useing a crap program or bad drive... Hard drives do die so I think i said above but just in case I didnt I would recomend getting two and keeping one in a safety box... One thing you can't do with your cd library.. I agree with above though be cautious with buying online because I see them trying to go pay as you go also especially for video and I think that is really scary.

 

[Anubisrocks]



Quote:
Originally Posted by lexiconthx /forum/post/17075035


I couldn't agree with you more... I rarely buy music online. I prefer buying the cd/sacd as well. Not only for the sound quality but I like the physical media as well, I actually enjoy the book that comes with the cd and the artwork... Sorry it doesn't look s good on a computer screen. However I like to digitize my music so it is easier to find when I play it back. Given a good program and cd reader the wav file sounds identical to the cd.... The people that say they hear a difference are useing a crap program or bad drive... Hard drives do die so I think i said above but just in case I didnt I would recomend getting two and keeping one in a safety box... One thing you can't do with your cd library.. I agree with above though be cautious with buying online because I see them trying to go pay as you go also especially for video and I think that is really scary.

I'll buy a CD or such online in a heartbeat if the price is right and it usually is. What I also do when I can is buy directly from the artist. (Artist, not record company representing artist). It is not often I get that opportunity though.

I digitize my music as well if needed and if needed I will also remix. I tend to use Soundforge for that and Nero for burning. I use Plextor burners. There is another program I just started using for mixing, but I can't remember the name. It's actually been about 10 months since I have done any audio work. I hope to get back to it soon, but right now I am working on a VHS digitizing problem. Actually it's not much of a problem anymore since I got my new DVR, the problem is the tapes are crowding me out of my living space.