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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I feel bad posting this, but after all my reading on this site, I'm not very clear on what is the best player for my purposes! Here's the plan:


I need a universal player, that I will have modded for SDI output, but will initially use 480i into my Lumagen Vision scaler. Short-term, 480i performance is important. I use a Electrohome 8500 FP CRT, so the whole DVI/HDCP thing is of no use to me.


Audio is very important and it would probably be wise to choose something that has a hi-res digital connection medium for multi-channel audio for future application (my Halo processor doesn't have it yet, but I hear its coming!) Not a deal-breaker however.


I had narrowed it down to the Denon 2900, 5900, 3910 or Pioneer 59Avi. The usual suspects!


The 5900 adds better audio and IEEE 1394 over the 2900, however the 2900 has no layer change delay and no macroblocking (although I believe that won't be an issue for either 480i or SDI.) Is there a difference in 480i performance between these two?


The 3910 is essentially a 5900 but adds HDMI and looses some weight. Is it really a toss-up between a 5900 and 3910?


The 59Avi is similar to the 3910 from a connection standpoint (although I'm not sure if their implementation of iLink will work with all manufacturer's implementations??)


End result.......does one of these really standout as the way to go, given my setup and intentions????


Any opinions with specific experience would be greatly appreciated!!!
 

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I had my brand new Denon 2900 modded by JVB digital a few months ago. I will be calling them in the next few days, hence the reason why I'm back here again searching around for SDI Denon conversation. I flat out don't like the picture. My KDS (Key Digital) modded RP-62 was night and day better with my HD Leeza than the JVB Digtal Denon Mod. BIG BIG diference in price too! I would be concerned not about the player as much, as to who? is putting what? into it.


Morg
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Interesting info Morg!


I was really on the fence and it came down to the 3910 v. 2900. I ended up choosing the 3910 because the analog audio was noticeably better and I liked the idea of having both firewire and HDMI for future possibilities. I haven't even opened it yet so I still have time to change my mind! :confused:


I was looking at JvB's site and was considering them for the mod. They seem to be quite exhaustive in what they do or have done. Did you talk with them about your findings? I'm curious as to what they might have done to help the matter.


The other option is to talk to the guys at Lumagen about doing the mod as I will most likely be upgrading to another scaler from them (with the SDI input.) I've heard that they might do the mods if you buy their scaler....but not sure that's going to help you much since you already have the Leeza.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
To add more confusion....I just saw that a Denon authorized etailer just lowered their price $150 less than the next nearest competitor. That make the difference between what I paid for my 3910 and the 2900 about $500. Its got me thinking.........is it really worth it??? :(
 

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Morg, There is a known difference in how the HD Leeza accepts an SDI signal. That is why their modded player may look better. Check with JVB digital again and see if they can possibly update your 2900. When you order a SDI mod for a DVD player they now ask if you are using a HD Leeza, so it may involve a different board or setting. Ask for Bas when you call, as he is very helpful. I've had two players modded by JVB and their work is top notch. They are the ones chosen by DVDO to do the HD>HD+ conversions.
 

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jkscherk,


if you project onto a screen that's larger than 60" (I expect you do), don't get anywhere near the Pioneer. The CUE bug is a killer.


The Panasonics are simply MIA. As they've done before, Panasonic first phases out devices and a few months later, they bring a new model into the market (an idiotic strategy, if you ask me).


I spoke to the Pixel Magic guys a while back and they say that Panasonic has new players coming out soon. Hopefully, they will be SDI modifiable (no way to tell before they officially come out). This could be the killer player we've all be waiting for.
 

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This topic is very pertinent to me because I am purchasing the Lumagen VisionPro HDP next week and Jim at Lumagen is going to do the SDI mod on my DVD player for me. I already have a Panasonic RP82 . Should I get the mod done on the RP82 or take the opportunity to upgrade ? If so to what ? Would like to have DVD-A / SACD player and have been eyeing the Denons. Would that be an upgrade or downgrade videowise though ? Projector is Barco 1209.


Thanks,

Rod
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by oferlaor
jkscherk,


if you project onto a screen that's larger than 60" (I expect you do), don't get anywhere near the Pioneer. The CUE bug is a killer.


The Panasonics are simply MIA. As they've done before, Panasonic first phases out devices and a few months later, they bring a new model into the market (an idiotic strategy, if you ask me).


I spoke to the Pixel Magic guys a while back and they say that Panasonic has new players coming out soon. Hopefully, they will be SDI modifiable (no way to tell before they officially come out). This could be the killer player we've all be waiting for.


Pioneer 59avi does not have CUE, right? It only suffer from 3:2 alt flags. Please expound.


Thanks
 

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Rod, If you want to get DVD-Audio and SACD I think either of the two new Denons (2910 or 3910)would be a good choice. Call Jim at Lumagen and see what he would recommend but in the past he has been very positive on the Denon SDI modded players.


Jim had this to say about the Denon mod:

"I do SDI mods for Lumagen customers. I just finished my first Denon 5900 mod for a VisionPro HDP Beta customer, and I must say it is excellent for both audio and video.


I compared the Denon 5900 SDI out to the RP91 SDI player I have now using AVIA test patterns and watching Lord of the Rings. The RP91 shows errors on the 100TVL, 200 TVL and Zone-plate test patterns, but the Denon looked great on these. The sweep to 5 MHz looked very good on the Denon, while the RP91 showed more pass-band ripple. Also, Lord of the Rings looked stunning on the Denon, but still excellent on the RP91."


The 2910 and 3910 share the same MPEG decoder that the 5900 has and the RP-91 and RP-82 have the same MEI decoders.
 

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I use the SDI modded Pioneer (By JVB) with my HDP. It is only 3:2 Alternating CUE that effects it and even then the Lumagen does a very nice job of filtering it (Most people cannot see the difference when filtered properly).


Pioneer use an entirely industry standard Firewire implementation and even the anti jitter clock synching is standard. I would guess there is very little in it between the 3910 and 59AVI when using I-Link and SDI but the Denon would have an edge with Analogue audio outputs. Looking at JVBs current pricing the Denon would be way better value.
 

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Clark, thanks for the info. Yesterday I talked to Patrick at Lumagen and you are right, they are very high on the Denon 5900. It's expensive though, I will research the 2910 and 3910. Might be able to find a used one since the warranty will be voided anyway with the mod.


Rod
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I've had almost a week to think about taking my 3910 back and getting a 2900 to save the $500. Decided to keep the 3910. I still have yet to even open the box, but I decided that this machine is worth the extra $$ based on its analog audio and digital connectivity.


I know that the guys at Lumagen are high on the 5900; I'm trusting that the 3910 will be just as good.


I'm now almost hoping that blu-ray or hd-dvd take a while to get going as it will help to justify my spending about twice what I had planned!! :D
 

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Have you considered a 59avi and HD+ or comprable Lumagen product using 480i HDMI>DVI>Processor>display?


I just picked up a 59avi for $850 shipped and the $1500 for an upcoming HD+ would save you a bundle on SDI mods and warranty issues.


Or is there and advantage to SDI over this setup?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I actually did consider a 59Avi. Decided against it for two reasons:


1. I truley think the analog audio is substantially better on the 3910 v. 59Avi. I listened to them extensively, side by side, same material, receiver, etc. and I preferred the 3910. Clear call for me.


2. I run a CRT FP so DVI or HDMI is not an option. SDI is really the only way to go. From what I've read, SDI is also the cleanest way to go.
 

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Has anybody paired SDI modded Denon 2900 with IScan HD? How is the picture quality? I currently have Panasonic RP-82 with SDI paired with IScan HD & the picture appears somewhat soft & I was hoping that better power supply on 2900 might make a difference. Thanks.
 

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All the pioneers have various versions of CUE.


Looking at "secrets..." I see that it has "Chroma 3-2 alt" and "Chroma 4:2:0 ICP" (the latter of which is the more annoying variety).


I recently did a test with another Pioneer unit with an iScan HD scaler. The filter removed 90% of the Chroma bug, but not 100%. I could still see it slightly. Testing with another player without the chroma bug yielded perfect results.


I'm currently recommending against buying Pioneer players in all shapes or forms until they fix this problem.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by stopdog
Clark, thanks for the info. Yesterday I talked to Patrick at Lumagen and you are right, they are very high on the Denon 5900. It's expensive though, I will research the 2910 and 3910. Might be able to find a used one since the warranty will be voided anyway with the mod.


Rod
According to the Denon USA website, the warranty will not be voided if you use the follwing vendor to do this SDI modification:

http://www.msbtech.com/sdi/


I recently bought a DVD-3910 and I plan to have them do an SDI mod on it soon. This player rates very high at the Secrets site, so it should be a good candidate for the modification.
 

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Bought the 2910 and will ship it off today to Lumagen for the SDI mod. Advantage to sending it to Lumagen is I know for sure it will be compatible with the ProHDP . Also Jim mentioned he has "upgraded" sdi mods sent to him done by others, not sure who others are though.
 

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I would clarify with MSB Tech if the SDI modification is something that will not void the warranty with Denon.


The listing on Denon's site ( http://www.usa.denon.com/home/links.asp ) has been there since before MSB started SDI mods and refers to the modifications that they have done on Denon A/V receivers (adding dts to the AVR-3600 and AVR-5600 and adding 6-channel inputs) not DVD players.
 
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