Best practice pool/landscape audio wiring

6959 Views 21 Replies 6 Participants Last post by Bigus, Oct 4, 2019

Bigus

Discussion Starter · Sep 26, 2019

I'm pulling down audio and some cat cable myself in our new construction. And running conduit. Amazing how some crews will do this but not that, others that but not this. Got fed up trying to figure out who would or could do what and cut out some subs.

Anyway, what advice do you guys have on wiring for audio in landscape and around pool? I'm sure I'll use direct burial cable later, but that part of the yard won't even be graded for a while still. Where do you make a connection from riser wire to direct burial? And how do you make that connection? Have some siding and some brick veneer on back of the house in that location if it matters. Rebar slab that is about 3 feet above grade in the rear.

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AV_Integrated

· #2 · Sep 26, 2019

You want to use 100% direct burial cable. It's not that much more expensive and direct burial cable also has some protection from UV built into it to help it last longer in the sun.

You will want to carefully map out your entire outdoor speaker setup and how many zones/speakers you will have. I would run all the wires in conduit. Not to protect them from dirt, but to protect them from shovels, which invariably reach down and cut the low voltage cables.

You definitely want a map of where your cables are pulled so you know where they are going around the yard, just in case one does get broken at some point.

With a lot of speakers, you may choose to use a 70v system instead of a 8ohm system of speakers.

But, when I've done outdoor speakers, I've used direct burial cable for everything from start to finish.
https://www.outdoorspeakerdepot.com/outdoor-speaker-wire-cable.html

Be nice to hear how your final system is setup and get some updates along the way.

One place I did had about 30 or so speakers outside. The original installer didn't map out what any of the zones were or how any of the speakers were wired. So, with about 30 wires run outside (or more) I spent a day going through the speakers with a buddy on the phone pulling channels off the amp and finding the speakers associated with it, then labeling and drawing a map of how things were setup.

Make sure to label everything and draw a map so future you (or next owner) has some idea of how things were cabled.

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FlyingDiver

· #3 · Sep 26, 2019

Bigus said:
Where do you make a connection from riser wire to direct burial? And how do you make that connection? Have some siding and some brick veneer on back of the house in that location if it matters. Rebar slab that is about 3 feet above grade in the rear.

What our installer did was, during construction they put conduit in the exterior walls down to a location a foot or so above grade. Then they mounted a surface mount box on that connection point after the exterior was done. The pulled inside cable from the cable head area to that box, then connected to burial cable from the outside box to the speaker locations. I think there's about 2' of pipe from the box going underground before the cable emerges.

smoothtlk

· #4 · Sep 26, 2019

AV_integrated has all good points.

Additionally, typically you would run the system Mono unless there is a definite seating position where stereo makes sense.

When we run an amplified matrix, for example a MCA-88, there are two non amplified zones. One of these outputs would feed the 70volt high wattage landscape intended amplifier.

We will use buried subwoofers (typically look like "mushrooms" above ground) and run a separate speaker wire(s) to it. Powered off of it's own amp that is on the low frequency cutoff. We try to get the subwoofer placed reasonably near the highest probability sitting spot. If large grounds, then two on diagonals to each other.

So, wiring: MCA-88 (or Grand Concerto) low level outputs to a high level amp that has a cross over. Low side of the crossover goes to the mega watt subwoofer amp out to the sub(s). High side to the mono high frequency speakers.

Bigus

Discussion Starter · #5 · Sep 27, 2019

I'm planning on using direct burial cable for everything exterior to the house. Did you mean continue it inside? I could, makes no difference to me.

My immediate concern is that the wiring interior to house needs to be run now, while the part exterior to the house can't be run for several months. I wasn't sure where or how to make that connection. I can run conduit down an exterior wall to a connection point, or just go ahead and run the naked wire down the wall with sufficient coiled up to pull through into box later and make connections. I'll look into these boxes, see what looks appropriate.

I have a choice of exterior finish to penetrate. Brick veneer is better location wise, while the siding would obviously be easier to drill through and mount a box to. Brick would offer a natural drainage pathway inside the veneer in case the penetration ever becomes non watertight. Siding is sitting directly on the house sheathing and weather barrier.

I'm not going crazy with exterior zones. Have planned for two zones out back, rear patio overheads in stereo and everything around the pool in landscaping or otherwise in mono. I did plan to use the other side of a typical stereo direct burial cable to carry LF for sub(s).

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MileHighAutomation

· #6 · Sep 27, 2019

AV_Integrated said:
You want to use 100% direct burial cable. It's not that much more expensive and direct burial cable also has some protection from UV built into it to help it last longer in the sun.

You will want to carefully map out your entire outdoor speaker setup and how many zones/speakers you will have. I would run all the wires in conduit. Not to protect them from dirt, but to protect them from shovels, which invariably reach down and cut the low voltage cables.

You definitely want a map of where your cables are pulled so you know where they are going around the yard, just in case one does get broken at some point.

With a lot of speakers, you may choose to use a 70v system instead of a 8ohm system of speakers.

But, when I've done outdoor speakers, I've used direct burial cable for everything from start to finish.
https://www.outdoorspeakerdepot.com/outdoor-speaker-wire-cable.html

Be nice to hear how your final system is setup and get some updates along the way.

One place I did had about 30 or so speakers outside. The original installer didn't map out what any of the zones were or how any of the speakers were wired. So, with about 30 wires run outside (or more) I spent a day going through the speakers with a buddy on the phone pulling channels off the amp and finding the speakers associated with it, then labeling and drawing a map of how things were setup.

Make sure to label everything and draw a map so future you (or next owner) has some idea of how things were cabled.

^^ This post is correct. Be aware of the wire you buy, and make sure you buy everything that is OUTDOORS! Weather can quickly destroy things..

AV_Integrated

· #7 · Sep 28, 2019

My strongest recommendation is that if you have a central closet with equipment location that you are running to the outdoors, that you should have a conduit path so you are NOT wiring things now, but you can wire at any point in the future.

1.25" conduit (or larger) can go from inside the house to outside and can accommodate your wiring at any point and time. If a wire gets destroyed at some point, the conduit allows you to replace the wiring in the future. It can be wired above grade to a below grade location and stub out wherever you need it to be so that you can pull the wiring at the right time. Use flexible Carlon type conduit, not PVC tubing.

If you are dead set on running the wires now, then run them long and coil them up, but if you end up having an issue in the future, or wanting an extra wire in place, then you may find yourself in trouble in the future, which can be very frustrating without conduit in place.

Conduit, conduit, conduit. Yes, I tend to repeat myself on this. I have a number of conduit runs in my own home - all about retro access once walls are up.

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Bigus

Discussion Starter · #8 · Sep 28, 2019

I am putting in multiple runs of 1.5" conduit from central equipment closet to various accessible attic spaces, from there to various rooms. So far planning on rigid pvc (the grey electrical conduit with large radius elbows) as I can do all the runs I've mapped out so far with either one or two 90 degree elbows. If I find a run that gets more complex I would look at carlon for that. Unless there is some other reason to use the flexible tube for simple runs.

How exactly do you make that transition from inside to outside? That's what I've been trying to read about the last day or so. Do you use a demarc style box on the exterior above grade? Penetrate the wall directly with conduit? So far I haven't found any illustrations or discussion that really clarifies how that transition occurs.

I'm fine with pulling the outdoor cable through conduit later (in that case I'd probably run raw through framing into an attic space above that penetration, run conduit down from there, leave plenty of wire coiled in the attic and pull through that final conduit run at the appropriate time during landscaping).

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smoothtlk

· #9 · Sep 29, 2019 (Edited)

The inside to outside transition depends on the job.
You can core drill through the cinder wall block and put the conduit through the hole and mud / spray foam the hole tight. Ideally above grade so no moisture path.
Or, usually easier is to go through the wall bond (typically wood) which is directly on top of the foundation (always above grade).
We tilt the conduit downwards (facing out) slightly to shed water before it enters the building.
Typically there is a 90 elbow that then follows the foundation exterior down to below grade.

Many times if there will be a lot of wiring in the conduit (many runs), we will pull the conduit through disconnected sections of the system and then glue together once all wires are run and trenches are ready etc. Especially if there are a lot of bends. Makes it easier on the back to pull and easier on the wires. One just has to be a little more careful with the glue that you don't spill onto the wires and get them gooped up which makes pulling really hard. We also have a pull cord in the bundle, but it's usually not much help if the conduit is already populated. We also use junction boxes to break up the system for pulling in sections. Just depends on the scale of the system and the physical complexity.

You might consider pulling the wires and storing them outdoors to minimize the number of bends that affect pull strength. Especially since the inside / outside transition typically has a few bends all on its own. Just plastic bag them, and / or put them in a plastic box on the outside. You can also pull just enough to make them visible outside. But for most outdoor jobs...we pull outside to inside due to the lengths of wire involved. Less length on the inside of the home.

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Bigus

Discussion Starter · #10 · Sep 29, 2019

Thanks guys. Will look for the best spot to make this transition. Don't have siding/brick veneer on most of the house yet so will have to wait until that is done to sort out the penetration. I can go ahead and run most of the interior conduit/wire portion now though.

FlyingDiver

· #11 · Sep 29, 2019

Or just run the conduit out the side 6' or so and let whoever's doing the finish work around it. Then cut it off and mount the J box for the transition to the underground cable.

You must have some outside electrical outlets somewhere. Go see how the electricians prepped for those.

Bigus

Discussion Starter · #12 · Sep 29, 2019

So far just a short wire loop pulled through OSB sheathing.

Having conduit already through wall makes sense especially if in a siding area though I guess the masons can work brick around it too.

Bigus

Discussion Starter · #13 · Sep 29, 2019

Something like this on exterior? Conduit to interior of wall, conduit to below grade?

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smoothtlk

· #14 · Sep 29, 2019 (Edited)

That will work, but you don't need it...just a 90 elbow will also do. The cover is to aid in pulling wire (straight out, then, back to the box and straight down) but the cover is another place for water leakage, and a little uglier.
For now, just stub conduit out, glue it (spray foam) on the inside (don't bulge it out on the outside or that will get in the way of the mason) and let the masons do their magic. Then, cut post brick and put the elbow on. That way the masons do the finish work (that they should be good at) and no core drill needed, and you don't have to guess on the thickness of the brick and mortar.

So, speaker wire, ethernet for outside WiFi AP, ethernet for pool control, irrigation control wires, security wires (gates, motion), IP camera ethernet, landscape lighting wiring (typically 12gauge).

FlyingDiver

· #15 · Sep 29, 2019

Bigus said:
Something like this on exterior? Conduit to interior of wall, conduit to below grade?

That works if you only have a few wires, or are doing continuous runs. If you need to make connections in the box then you need something bigger.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/BELL-1-...-2-in-or-3-4-in-Outlets-PSB37550WHB/202284521

Bigus

Discussion Starter · #16 · Sep 29, 2019

Thanks. I do think I'd like a junction box with removable cover for any buried cable so that if something goes bad down the road I have an easy connection point for new cable runs.

Now just need to figure out where all the exterior equipment/penetrations will be. I think in my case just irrigation, landscape lighting, landscape audio, pool equipment, front gate. Can probably group those into two or maybe three locations.

AV_Integrated

· #17 · Sep 30, 2019

I put my conduit in and stubbed it out so it was just under the edge of a deck. Not sure that's an option for you, but it completely hides it when everything is finished.

Be aware of any 90 degree bends you have to contend with as cabling, doesn't like them. They are an installer's nightmare.

Bigus

Discussion Starter · #18 · Sep 30, 2019

I ran conduit for about half the house today. All runs are either straight or with a single 90 elbow. These are fairly generous radius and at 1.5" conduit I'm hoping won't give too much trouble when I need them. In addition to using large conduit I placed several runs from attic spaces back to network closet so that no one conduit would need to house many wires. Even using flex tube there would be at least that one bend in each.

smoothtlk

· #19 · Oct 1, 2019

You can also stub out and use silicone to attach an elbow that could be removed years later to access the wires and make it easier to pull new wire.
Some areas Low voltage is subject to electrical codes that might frown on that. Never ran into that myself.

Bigus

Discussion Starter · #20 · Oct 4, 2019

Finished conduit today. Dang. At least 500 ft of 1.5" but no run has more than one 90 elbow. All go from rooms to nearby accessible attic areas, from those attic areas to a common attic area, and from there to the electrical closet.

Ran out of audio wire today. Have pulled 1250 ft so far, need a few hundred more. Then some oddball cat drop locations I never could get electricians to run (garage openers, hot water heaters, Alexa locations etc) and I'll be done.

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