[nightcabbage]

There are a lot of Klipsch Reference owners out there so I'm looking for some direction on an A/V Receiver. Before I begin, here's my current setup:


Fronts: RF-52 II (100W RMS / 400W Peak . 36Hz-24KHz ± 3dB )
http://www.klipsch.com/rf-52-ii-floorstanding-speaker


Center: RC-52 II (125W RMS / 500W Peak . 67Hz-24KHz ± 3dB )
http://www.klipsch.com/rc-52-ii-center-speaker


Surrounds: RS-42 II (75W RMS / 300W Peak . 62Hz-24KHz ± 3dB )
http://www.klipsch.com/rs-42-ii-surround-speaker


Sub: Sub-12 (24-120Hz +/-3dB)


Receiver: Yamaha HTR-5960
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio..._u/?mode=model


My receiver doesn't have HDMI input, hence no HD audio support. So it's time for an upgrade. Now of course the drive behind this upgrade is to obtain higher quality sound with the new Blu-Ray HD formats, but if I'm going to upgrade I want more than just support for the codec. I want great sound. I want something that pairs well with my Reference speakers, but I don't want to pay a bunch of money for power or features I don't need. I've been known to crank it up, but I don't listen to these things at ear bleeding levels. I also don't think I need network support on my receiver, since most blu-ray players offer the same sorts of services with their network support. I don't THINK I would ever expect to spend over $1000 on a receiver, and I'm used to waiting around and getting things for 50% off... for instance there are some $1000+ receivers that are around $500 right now. But hey, I'm willing to spend a couple hundred more if it means getting something that's great.


SO TO MY QUESTION... what the heck should I get?


I've been leaning towards Yamaha but that's really only because I'm familiar with them and so many people speak highly of their quality. I've been eyeing the AVENTAGE line, but I'm not sure if I should go with the RX-A1000, or if the RX-A800 or even RX-A700 would really give me the same result with my set of speakers. I mean are we just talking about unutilized power, feature differences, or honest to goodness sound quality difference. Then I guess I'm really not sure what the difference is between the AVENTAGE line and the normal RX line.


And of course other people say Onkyo (though I've heard about build quality issues?), and others Marantz (though they seem expensive), and more recently I've seen those that shout Pioneer Elite (which I know nothing about). More recently I've been eying Emotiva and a combination of a UMC-1 processor with an XPA-5 five channel amp.... but that starts to get a lot more expensive and I have no idea if my particular class of speakers would even take advantage of such luxuries, or if I would notice.


I think the most prevalent thing here is that certain brands have different sound, and I'm just curious which would go best with some mid-road Klipsch Reference speakers like I have. Some people say Klipsch is bright, and Yamaha receivers are bright, so it's a bad combination... but others swear differently. And then I'm not sure if newer or higher end Yamahas, like the AVENTAGE, don't have that same brightness that some people refer to.


Most of the other help I've sought is random opinion with very little experience... unfortunately even on the Klipsch forums. There seems to be more experts here. I anxiously await to hear what avsforums has to offer!

 

[schan1269]

You get the receiver that does what you want, that is the best receiver...for you.


The Yamaha Aventage lines main attribute is it comes with a 3 year warranty, which is equaled by Integra, upper tier Denon and Marantz.


From a "made well" standpoint, the RX A wins...cause they are built like a tank(go to a store and pick up an RX-A)...and I'm not just talking about weight. Touch it, the face plate, the terminals in the back...nothing moves with the force of your fingers. Then go touch even a RX-V, when you push in a HDMI cable, the back panel will flex.


So, Aventage wins the built contest. Second place under built comes Integra(I can hear the boos from the Denon camp now). Integra SHOULD NOT be confused with Onkyo. Yes they come down the same assembly line, but, the chassis of the receivers is NOT the same. Integra chassis have always been built well. There is also a complete and total difference in the "ownership experience" between Onkyo and Integra. It is almost like you aren't even calling the same people. (the last time I actually talked TO a CSR at Onkyo/Integra, they get a smile on their face when an Integra call is in their Que cause it is going to be a "real problem"...not some like "40 other phone calls" of "how do I connect a HDMI? Where does it go?")


Marantz(from what most people say) is essentially a "re-boxed" Denon, add a feature or two(mainly the same receiver as a Marantz will gain pre-outs, but lose something else)


At the "bottom end" ($400 and under) Denon is kicking butt and taking names. Once you hit $500 though, Denon is an "also-ran"* compared to everybody else.


Pioneer/Elite is running flat out downhill on their way to the nearest cliff.


* Denon is an "also-ran" cause there is nothing to talk about from $450 till you hit $2000. There is a huge gap where Denon is just not competitive with Onkyo/Integra, Yamaha and Pioneer/Elite. Hopefully that will change in January-March when the XX13's come out.

 

[DannyW75]

Klipsch speakers are on the bright side. If it was me, I would choose a warmer sounding receiver to balance the sound out. I would probably go with a Marantz SR6005 in your case. Then again, this pairing may not be to your liking either. We all hear things differently.

 

[Fastslappy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DannyW75 Klipsch speakers are on the bright side. If it was me, I would choose a warmer sounding receiver to balance the sound out. I would probably go with a Marantz SR6005 in your case. Then again, this pairing may not be to your liking either. We all hear things differently.

I have owned Klipsch all my life, they will make or break a AVR by that I mean they will shine with a good AVR & sound Horrible with other AVR's . I been happy with the Onkyo's pushing Klipsches . the TX-NR3008 or 5008 with give you all the bells & whistles, plus they have Audyssey XT32 . & if that outta your $ range then the TX-NR-1009 will do nicely. Klipches like a clean ,neutral sounding AVR .

all this is I M H O

 

[skally]

Well I have herd "from the grape vine" that Yamaha & Pioneer are a bit "brighter" than say Onkyo & Denon but I would have to disagree... I believe they are on the same track/sound ( just going by my ears that is). I have an Onkyo 808 and love it, no problem whats so ever! Not to metion... I got it as a "referb" from Vanns back in Dec and saved around a little over $200 at the time. I'm not trying to convince you to go Onkyo by no means, I'm just saying dont rule them out... or try not to.


From what I have read, you might might to look into the HK & Marantz line as they offer a great clean sound without al the "bells a whitsles" such as internet and such.... just a thought thou.

 

[DannyW75]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fastslappy I have owned Klipsch all my life, they will make or break a AVR by that I mean they will shine with a good AVR & sound Horrible with other AVR's . I been happy with the Onkyo's pushing Klipsches . the TX-NR3008 or 5008 with give you all the bells & whistles, plus they have Audyssey XT32 . & if that outta your $ range then the TX-NR-1009 will do nicely. Klipches like a clean ,neutral sounding AVR . all this is I M H O

I agree with you here, Fastslappy. I have heard Klipsch paired up with certain receivers that the high frequencies were just piercing through my ears. It was actually painful to listen to. I find Onkyo receivers to have an interesting sound though. To my ears, their receivers have a slightly forward treble detail, yet at the same time also have very deep bass slam. You essentially get a very dominant and lively sound. I can definitely see why many people would enjoy the Klipsch and Onkyo pairing. In my testing though, I would pair Klipsch with Marantz to end up with a little bit more warmth.

 

[nightcabbage]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fastslappy I have owned Klipsch all my life, they will make or break a AVR by that I mean they will shine with a good AVR & sound Horrible with other AVR's . I been happy with the Onkyo's pushing Klipsches . the TX-NR3008 or 5008 with give you all the bells & whistles, plus they have Audyssey XT32 . & if that outta your $ range then the TX-NR-1009 will do nicely. Klipches like a clean ,neutral sounding AVR . all this is I M H O

Yeah, those are out of my price range. Like I said in my initial post: flying past a grand for a receiver doesn't make sense unless it's a CLEAR winner. I mean after all: I only paid around $1200 for all the speakers I listed above (yes, around 50% off). You've owned Klipsch's all your life... what sort of receivers have you paired with them?



Well, a lot of good opinions here... slightly DIFFERING opinions.

That's the thing when you get into the A/V Receiver world: everything sort of becomes muddy. It's all so subjective. I would love if I had an extremely knowledgeable and trusted review resource for this topic that's the A/V equivalent to tomshardware.com


I would also love to demo them, but it takes so much effort to switch out receivers and set them up, then you have to live with them for a bit for proper testing. And while I feel like I have a good sound pallete, I also recognize I don't have a good sound memory. That is, unless I could hear them back and forth, like switching between them when an audio source is playing, it's difficult to note the differences.


*sigh* Being a consumer is hard work!

Does anyone know if the Yamaha ADVENTAGE series has a better quality, or at least "warmer", sound than some of the cheaper or earlier series? Build quality is important to a degree... you want the thing to last. But I also recognize that I don't take my receiver on safaris - it just sits in my cabinet. I'm most interested in sound.


Does anyone have anything to say about "power" for my set of speakers? One thing that's true for almost any line of receivers when you go up the model line is that you get A) More Features and B) More Power. But I usually don't need a lot of the features, and I'm not sure I could benefit from more power. Do you ever go up in sound quality bouncing up the same model line? If not, I'm not sure why I would pay $1000 for a receiver when I could get it's little brother for half the price.


Anyone have Emotiva/Klipsch comparative experience?

 

[skally]

BY chance is there a local a/v store near you that would carry a few upper lines to test out?

 

[mjpearce023]

Yamaha's are not bright. Marantz are not warm. These things have been floating around for a while and you can go to any store and test it out. When level matched and in pure direct mode you won’t be able to pick out the yamaha or the marantz. Receivers can become bright when they are clipping but brands don't have a signature sound. I've found the biggest differences to be room correction. The type of room correction can cause differences in brightness or warmth. The Yamaha has YPAO which you can manually change the eq settings to make it more warm and less bright. Audyssey doesn’t let you manually edit the eq curves but I've never found Audyssey to increase treble in my system. If you like the Yamaha, get it. You can control the sound you get so don't worry about these silly reviews.


As far as power goes the Klipsch are not hard to drive so pretty much any of the receivers you are looking at will have enough power for them.

 

[nightcabbage]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skally BY chance is there a local a/v store near you that would carry a few upper lines to test out?

I live in Columbus OH. There was one that carried Reference, but when I went there it had closed down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjpearce023 Yamaha's are not bright. Marantz are not warm. These things have been floating around for a while and you can go to any store and test it out. When level matched and in pure direct mode you won’t be able to pick out the yamaha or the marantz. Receivers can become bright when they are clipping but brands don't have a signature sound. I've found the biggest differences to be room correction. The type of room correction can cause differences in brightness or warmth. The Yamaha has YPAO which you can manually change the eq settings to make it more warm and less bright. Audyssey doesn’t let you manually edit the eq curves but I've never found Audyssey to increase treble in my system. If you like the Yamaha, get it. You can control the sound you get so don't worry about these silly reviews. As far as power goes the Klipsch are not hard to drive so pretty much any of the receivers you are looking at will have enough power for them.

Hmm, that's an interesting perspective. Especially since I haven't been using the YPAO on my current Yamaha. It really screwed things up... had my distances all wrong and set my crossover extremely high. I wonder if when people talk about certain bright/warm characteristics between brands, they're only hearing the differences in these auto setting systems each receiver has.

 

[murph101]

Hey nightcabbbage,


I have only heard the Aventage A800 at a local store running smaller on-wall Def Tech Mytho's (model six I believe). It did sound a little bright for my taste, but again to each their own on that (and it was a Paul's TV setup). The build quality on the Aventage series does seem quite robust.

I have a Denon that I picked up 4 years ago and have been very happy with it and just recently picked up an Onkyo 809 last month (couldn't pass up that $699 deal!) which IMHO is much better than the Denon's in the same price range.

Just remember, auditioning is the key to getting what you want and what's best for YOU.

And just a side note; the A1000 can be had on Newegg for $599.99 this weekend. Not to rush you into anything of course!

 

[nightcabbage]



Quote:
Originally Posted by murph101 /forum/post/20845913


And just a side note; the A1000 can be had on Newegg for $599.99 this weekend. Not to rush you into anything of course!

Oh I saw that

If I'm a bit more patient, I bet I can have it for about $100 less either there on at Vanns though.


But again, I'm wondering if I'll have any major advantage in sound over the A800 or even the A700.

 

[mjpearce023]



Quote:
Originally Posted by nightcabbage /forum/post/20845990


Oh I saw that

If I'm a bit more patient, I bet I can have it for about $100 less either there on at Vanns though.


But again, I'm wondering if I'll have any major advantage in sound over the A800 or even the A700.

The only difference I see is that the A700 has YPAO that uses 1 mic position and the A800/A1000 have the multi point. Not sure how much of a difference it makes with YPAO but with Audyssey using multiple seating positions does a much better job than 1. Stepping up to the A2000 gets you "(Multi-Point/ Angle/ Reflected Sound Control)". I think that's the one that also eqs a subwoofer.

 

[KilldozerMD]

I just picked up an Integra dtr-40.3 to go with my Emo xpa-5 and Klipsch RF-7/RC-7/RB-75 setup and so far so good! Definately check out the integra line.

 

[robc1976]

More than likely you will want to upgrade and maybe expand so I would say go with a Denon AVR-4311Ci....I know it is pricey but a great reciever IMHO. I have this reciever and a XPA-5 to run the Fronts,center & wides and then run the heights and surrounds off the 4311Ci.

http://emotiva.com/xpa5.shtm



All depends on what you want.

 

[KidHorn]

I have a klipsch 7.1 speaker setup. I used to power it with a Yamaha and now I use an Onkyo. I disagree with a previous poster about Yamaha's not sounding bright. My experience is they do tend to sound bright. You can always adjust the bass and treble, but with everything set at 0, it definately sounds brighter than the Onkyo.


In my opinion, klipsch excel at higher frequencies and Yamaha's do also. They are a good pair. I replaced the Yamaha with an Onkyo so I could get HDMI switching. What a stupid purchase. The Onkyo HDMI started having issues after about a year and was completely worthless after 2 years. Now, all video is dead. I can't even use composite or component. No on sceen display makes it very difficult to adjust settings. It still sounds good using toslink.


One thing I've noticed is the majority of people who rave about Onkyo have only had their units for a few months. They're great for a year or two. All those features for so little money. And then reality hits and they need to be sent to the factory.


My Yamaha is still going strong without ever having any issues of any kind.

 

[erwinfrombelgium]

I have both Yamaha (RX-V2700 AVR) and Emotiva (XPA-1 etc) products and I like both. If you don't care about bells and 3D whistles, why not take on the Emotiva UMC-1 processor? It's now on sale due to the upcoming 3D upgrade for only $500. The XPA-5 amp is not cheap, but great value and an investment for many years. The UMC-1 comes with a giftcard that gives you 40% off if you want to buy, say the upcoming XMC-1 processor (likely to be $1,000, so you pay only $600). Just saying. I'd be tempted if I was shopping now.

 

[nightcabbage]



Quote:
Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium /forum/post/20856949


I have both Yamaha (RX-V2700 AVR) and Emotiva (XPA-1 etc) products and I like both. If you don't care about bells and 3D whistles, why not take on the Emotiva UMC-1 processor? It's now on sale due to the upcoming 3D upgrade for only $500. The XPA-5 amp is not cheap, but great value and an investment for many years. The UMC-1 comes with a giftcard that gives you 40% off if you want to buy, say the upcoming XMC-1 processor (likely to be $1,000, so you pay only $600). Just saying. I'd be tempted if I was shopping now.

Oh I was (and still am). Problem is I'd be spending more on that then I did my speakers... and that just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[mjpearce023]



Quote:
Originally Posted by nightcabbage /forum/post/20860190


Oh I was (and still am). Problem is I'd be spending more on that then I did my speakers... and that just doesn't make sense to me.

You're right, it doesn't make any sense. The XPA5 is a nice amp and I'm not saying anything bad about it, but 96 db speakers will not need that kind of power. You would miss out on features just to gain some power that is not even needed.

 

[nightcabbage]

Well unfortunately this thread hasn't gotten me any closer to a choice :-\\