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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I bought this unit from a Canadian eBay seller in late 2008, and it has given wonderful service. I like to use it to archive college and pro football games in the highest quality possible.


I am relegated to figuring out the highest quality recording mode I can fit, after editing out commercials. I then transfer the original HD recordings off my Directv HR-20* at the maximum SD quality in real time, and then edit the commercials and record to DVD-R, or DVD-R DL, or DVD+R DL. I then rip the DVD on my computer using DVD Shrink, and I use Ifoedit to remove the 4:3 flag and replace it with a 16:9 flag and then I master a final copy and keep an image just in case I need to burn a new copy.


The results look pretty good, but I would like better.


I do note that the Pio recorder has an ultra high quality mode that would put an hour of information per dvd, but I suppose I would have to segment the master DVD's from the recorder into one hour DVD's and then use software to re-master those DVDs into a final product. Even a DL disc is not going to be big enough to hold that much information.


I suppose I could possibly use a blu-ray burner on the computer to do this. I do not currently have a Blu- Ray burner, but they are readily available for PCs.


Can you burn standard def fare to blu-ray media, and is enough quality gained to try it? Just might motivate me to also buy a Blu-Ray player for my main AV set up, so I can watch my creations!


Just curious about what others may have tried and what software they may have used to accomplish.
 

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You're already using your Pioneer 460 at maximum performance: figuring out ahead of time how much capacity you'll need for the dub and setting a flex record speed to match. Moving to the XP or HQ 1-hour-per-disc speed on the Pioneer and other DVD/HDD recorders is another case of "whats the point, really". In theory, its better-looking than SP, in practice there isn't much difference on most machines and the one-hour-per-disc limitation is about as impractical as Sonys original Beta I vcr speed was 35 years ago. The slight improvement of XP over SP isn't worth the 50% drop in disc capacity for archiving, its fine for casual timeshifting on the HDD but thats about all. (If you're creating a compilation disc from external sources, such as old music video clips, XP becomes more attractive because the 1-hour limit is less confining for clip collections than it is for long-form sports, movies or television shows.)


You're also caught in a bind by your DirecTV satellite service: unlike cable or off-air, there is no sneaky back door way to get a true HDTV-quality signal out of it. All its recordable connections are limited to SD: HD is displayed only over HDMI or component. Recording true HD to discs requires moving to a PC solution and BD media in HD mode, using an HDTV tuner card and off-air antenna as the source. Or, switch from DirecTV to cable and get a TiVO HD: the TiVO can record in true HD from cable and digitally pass it thru to the PC, where you can author and burn BD or AVCHD discs.


(Using the XP speed on an SD recorder like your Pioneer and transferring it to BD won't accomplish much aside from giving you more SD running time on a single disc. You'd incur a quality hit from the DirecTV PVR>Pioneer>PC-BD re-encoding chain which would likely negate any slight improvements from the XP speed on the Pio 460. I'd stick to MN26 (90mins) or SP on the Pioneer, unless you're ready to completely uproot/revamp your signal provider and recording hardware.)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobilelawyer /forum/post/18262113


I like to use it to archive college and pro football games in the highest quality possible.


I then transfer the original HD recordings off my Directv HR-20* at the maximum SD quality in real time, and then edit the commercials and record to DVD-R, or DVD-R DL, or DVD+R DL. I then rip the DVD on my computer using DVD Shrink, and I use Ifoedit to remove the 4:3 flag and replace it with a 16:9 flag and then I master a final copy and keep an image just in case I need to burn a new copy.

Based on what you wrote: you want to archive sports; you want the maximum SD quality; you are using a PC in the workstream. I would recommend the following workflow, based on what I did to archive select Eagles and Phillies games to DVD-R using my Panasonic E-85 and recording OTA. It's more work than most people are willing to input, but this gave me what I considered to be the best SD quality overall when the recordings were played back on a 50" plasma.


First get yourself a pack of DVD-RW so you stop wasting money burning and throwing away multiple -R & DL disks.

Here's the workflow I've used:
  • Record from your HR-20 to the Pioneer in the HQ 1 hr mode. This will record your source with an average bitrate of ~9 Mbps which is considered a near-lossless digital encoding of your analog source. Your recordings will be as good as your originals -- but obviously not better.
  • Divide the title at commercials to break the recording into ~1 hr chunks and burn to multiple -RW's
  • On your PC, use a good DVD authoring program like TMPGenC DVD Author or Video ReDo to import the segments, edit out the commercials and combine the segments into a single video stream. Editing on a PC is far superior to doing it on a DVD recorder. Programs like Video ReDo have automatic commercial finders that greatly speed the process.
  • Author the project as DVD-video to a folder on the HDD.
  • Open the title on the HDD with DVD Shrink (free) -- set the preferences in Shrink to use it's 2-pass transcoder with deep analysis.
  • Shrink the title to fit on either a DVD-5 or a DVD-9. Shrink will do a 2-pass transcode of the title keeping it completely in the digital domain. You will not incur the degradation you would get with a real-time shrink on a DVD recorder which first converts the transport stream to analog and then runs it back through it's 1-pass encoder to redigitize it. Shrink's 2-pass process allows it to broaden the dynamic range of the encoding while it transcodes, which will give you a higher PQ at equivalent bitrates compared to what a DVD recorder can do with it's 1-pass time-of-flight encoder.
  • After Shrink has done it's job, use ImageBurn (free) to burn the title to DVD.

The big decision, where you will have to make a judgment call, is whether to Shrink to DVD-5 or DVD-9. I have a general rule of thumb I used for sports. If the edited title is 2 hr or less, I Shrink to DVD-5. If it is > 2 hr, I Shrink to DVD-9. In the end, it all depends on the display you are going to be using. If you are talking about a large sharp display -- like a 50" plasma -- I would be inclined to stick with the 2 hr limit -- and possibly back it down some for select football games. If you are talking about something like a 32" CRT then don't even bother with any of this -- you won't see a difference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·

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Originally Posted by Kelson /forum/post/18264021


Based on what you wrote: you want to archive sports; you want the maximum SD quality; you are using a PC in the workstream. ... The big decision, where you will have to make a judgment call, is whether to Shrink to DVD-5 or DVD-9. I have a general rule of thumb I used for sports. If the edited title is 2 hr or less, I Shrink to DVD-5. If it is > 2 hr, I Shrink to DVD-9. In the end, it all depends on the display you are going to be using. If you are talking about a large sharp display -- like a 50" plasma -- I would be inclined to stick with the 2 hr limit -- and possibly back it down some for select football games. If you are talking about something like a 32" CRT then don't even bother with any of this -- you won't see a difference.

Thanks for the detailed advice! I am anxious to try VideoReDo. One of the games still on my HR-20 is the superbowl. Gotta have the best quality possible on that archive
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear /forum/post/18263729


You're already using your Pioneer 460 at maximum performance...

You're also caught in a bind by your DirecTV satellite service: unlike cable or off-air, there is no sneaky back door way to get a true HDTV-quality signal out of it. All its recordable connections are limited to SD: HD is displayed only over HDMI or component.

Is there any way, using a hardware solution, or an hdmi to "other" connector to get content off the HR-20 in HD? Right now, I cannot think of any piece of hardware that has an HDMI input as opposed to an HDMI output.


Also, I see the Magnavox harddrive DVD recorder is still available. Does it offer any advantages over the Pio, other than a digital OTA tuner?
 

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I'm no expert in this area at all but I've read Hauppauge makes a card for your PC that has component inputs and accepts HD.

You could output WS HD component from your HR-20 to your PC and burn it in AVCHD format and 5.1 surround. Something that you can't do with DVDRs no matter how fast a speed you use. In theory it sounds great but like everything involving a PC it probably has a learning curve, I've never done this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

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Originally Posted by jjeff /forum/post/18266149


I'm no expert in this area at all but I've read Hauppauge makes a card for your PC that has component inputs and accepts HD.

You could output WS HD component from your HR-20 to your PC and burn it in AVCHD format and 5.1 surround. Something that you can't do with DVDRs no matter how fast a speed you use. In theory it sounds great but like everything involving a PC it probably has a learning curve, I've never done this.

I know this is a late reply to your post, but boy, does Hauppage make such a device, and it is not a card: it is their HD PVR that allows a user to stream off the output of the HR20-700, and the results are just fantastic. See my comments on this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1055232
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Correction on that last forum link. I never posted to that one, but it is a great resource for the HD PVR.
 
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