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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

I just upgraded my projector to 4k and now my problem is that my signal path doesn't allow 4k/60Hz but only 4k/30Hz (with some lags).

My configuration:
  • HTPC
  • 2 meter HDMI extension cable (2020, support up-to-8k) male-female (just installed to support height adjustable electric desk)
  • 10 meter fixed HDMI high speed cable (2015) built in inside the walls (not changable)
  • AVR - Marantz SR-5010
  • 10 meter fixed HDMI high speed cable (2015) built in inside the walls (not changable)
  • Projector (Optoma UHD52ALV)

I noticed that lags with 4k/30Hz started when I added this 2m extension while lately installed this electric desk in other room. So probably firstly I will investigate if I can get the 10m cable that much out from the wall that I can manage without it.

I tested that I put HTPC directly to the last 10m cable directly connected to the projector and still no chance with 4k/60Hz, so basically this means that neither of my 10m cable is capable to 4k/60Hz. It worked only when I tested with 2m HDMI directly from HTPC to projector.

So first question is there change improve the signal with these existing 10m cables to get 4k/60Hz working?

My understanding is that HDMI repeater is (always?) having external 5v power input and will amplify low input, so should be installed before the long cable?
HDMI extender instead clean-up the signal to improve the signal quality without external power input and is expected to be installed after the long cable?

As there is no possibility to split these 10m cable would it be best to install HDMI extender before the AVR and repeater after the AVR? Or HDMI extenders after both devices (AVR and projector)?

Using these HDMI repeater/extender requires additional cables to be able to put those between, so I assume that I should favor short as possible e.g. 0.5m..

I would appreciate the support on this topic! Thanks!
 

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Those HDMI cables in the walls are the most limiting factor. High Speed cables weren't designed to work with 4k. Sometimes they do, in shorter lengths, or at lower bandwidth. I've never heard of a repeater or amplifier that can overcome that.

If you do open up the walls, instead of placing a cable in there, place a conduit that you can pull cables through, so that you have the option to update cables in the future.
 

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@MatiasI I agree with @nathan_h. You need to replace the in-wall cables with newer, passive HDMI cables that at least are current enough to support 4k HDR (HDMI 2.0). All an active extender does is allow signal propagation over a longer length, which worked great for HD (1080) but 4k HDR is more demanding so they don't work as well. A new, high quality, High Speed HDMI cable(s), installed correctly, with an active extender may work. If your cable run could be kept under 25' then you could use certified, Premium High Speed HDMI cables which would allow you a little more confidence that the cables would work better. Cable length is always a factor in successful cable runs. Shorter is always better but not always practical or reasonable.

You could consider active, hybrid fiber cables but they are expensive and installation takes a little more care. For active cables, a single cable, source to sink, with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between is the most reliable connection and something you might want to consider even if you go with new, passive High Speed HDMI cables. Active cables can not and should not be daisy-chained either.

Conduit is the ONLY way to future proof your cable connections if you don't have easy access to your cabling. Bend radius is also something you need to consider when dealing with the higher bandwidth requirements (18Gbps) of HDMI 2.0. No sharp, 90º bends. And being as you have old cabling in-wall, you have no idea if there are sharp bends or not. The use of conduit makes it so much easier and safer to control bend radius and upgrade your cabling when needed, and it will be going forward. Install a pull string and you're read to go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks @nathan_h and @Otto Pylot for your replies.. Ok, I understand to going for 4k30 to 4k60 would require to double the bandwidth and indeed these old cables are not designed for such most probably lacking the most in protection etc..

I build the house 2015 and that tiny mistake it the middle of all that hurry and hazzle when my electrician shouted to me when I was doing something else that "can I leave out the conduits as it will be hard to install those". For some reason I responded "Ok" without any further thought at that moment..but now I hear those echo of those words again and again.. :( I have "office" with computers in downstairs and home theater room upstair so it would be renovating a lot of walls and roofs to get cables changed.

My plan B is to buy Shield TV Pro to home theater room to replace HTPC and connect that with short 1m HDMI to AVR already in home theater room and then 10-15m HDMI fiber to projector but installed to the surface of the walls as starting point.

I assume I could get best of the configuration with?

Shield TV Pro (4k60 support, HDCP2.2)
--> 0.5m or 1m - Passive electric HDMI rated as HDMI 2.1
AVR (Marants SR-5010, 4k60 support, HDCP2.2)
--> 15m - Fiber HDMI
Projector (Optoma UHD52ALV, 4k60 support, HDCP2.2)
 

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Yeah, putting the source close the AVR is a GREAT idea. MUCH cheaper and less invasive than running new cable from another room.

For that cable, I would choose a Premium Certified HDMI cable, like one of these: https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Certifie...lated-Connectors-Premium-nylon/dp/B07FPD59MY/
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Is your AVR really fifteen meters from the projector? If so, I agree you need to replace that cable with a fiber optic HDMI cable. I am not familiar with the particular cable you link to, so I cannot advise there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yes, surely I should use such certified cable as such is available and basically with those sort cables there isn't much difference in price. I hadn't met such certified cables before. Now I wonder whether such certification exist for Fiber HDMI cables as well?

Projector is 4m from the screen and AVR is below the sceen but doing installation on surface would require going around the room and probably go to roof from wall behind the projector. It might be that 10m would be just enough. I need to do proper measurements but I assumed that with Fiber HDMI it basically doesn't matter whether it is 10m or 15m and linked product had basically same price for both cables.

@nathan_h do you have some other Fiber HDMI that you would recommend? At first glance I didn't see certification on those. Such cables in local stores seems to cost around 200€ already..
 

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@MatiasI My basic rule of thumb is this:

4k HDR, HDMI 2.0 options - for runs up to 25' maximum, a certified, Premium High Speed HDMI with the QR label is recommended. They are mfr'd by a number of cabel mfs so you're not stuck with a particular brand so pricing is competitive. All you need to look for is "Premium High Speed HDMI" and the QR label of authenticity.

For runs longer tan 25', a hybrid fiber cable is recommended. Ruipro 4k is what is recommended for the HDMI 2.0 option sets. Again, a single cable, source to sink with no wall plates, adapters, extenders, etc in-between is the most reliable connection. And be mindful of bend radius.

Certification for active cables is not here yet but rumor has it that it's coming. So currently, there are no HDMI.org certified active cables in the marketplace. Keep in mind that certification is not a guarantee that the cable will work with all devices and setup. It is more for consumer confidence that the cable has been tested and certified by a standardized testing and certification program designed and approved by HDMI.org.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Seems that Ruipro is available in Amazon.de as well. Thanks again guys for your support!
 

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Seems that Ruipro is available in Amazon.de as well. Thanks again guys for your support!
If you decide to "upgrade" from Ruipro 4k (HDMI 2.0 option sets) to their 8k version (HDMI 2.1 option sets), just keep in mind that Ruipro has continued to tweak the 8k cables so there are slightly different versions (all have the same product number) as they have continued to improve the compatibility with some of the new HDMI 2.1 devices starting to appear. Ruipro 8k, Ruipro 8k Gen-3, and Ruipro 8k Gen-3b (and soon 3c). If all you have is HDMI 2.0 chipset devices, then there is no visual improvement in pq etc from using an 8k cable with HDMI 2.0 chipsets.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yes, I saw that that Ruipro 8K actually isn't that much more expensive but still all my chipset support only 4k and HDMI 2.0, so it won't bring any benefit. When updating the system to 8k then there will be again new better cables already. :)
 

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Yes, I saw that that Ruipro 8K actually isn't that much more expensive but still all my chipset support only 4k and HDMI 2.0, so it won't bring any benefit. When updating the system to 8k then there will be again new better cables already. :)
Possibly. Video technology will always outpace connection technology so that's why it's necessary to plan ahead for easy access to your cabling (conduit if in-wall) so when you upgrade your cabling (which you will) it's an easy and safe process. Even using AOC cabling, there are technical challenges such as reliable speed, error corrections, timing, etc that become more complicated as video standards, distance, etc increase. I doubt if we will ever see a single cable that works for everyone, every device, and installation across the board.
 
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