AVS Forum banner

1 - 20 of 41 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've finally made some decisions on a new receiver and front 3 speakers, and would appreciate some advice on the subwoofer that might complement my system.


Receiver: Pioneer SC-1222-K (7.2 - 600W)

Front L/R: JBL ES80

Center: JBL Studio 120C

Mid/Rear: Onkyo SKS-HT540 speakers

Subwoofer...?


My room is quite large at 15'x20' (15' vaulted ceiling) and open to kitchen and a few small front rooms. Subwoofer options that I am looking at include:


1 - JBL Studio 1 Series SUB150P (300W/500W) - $180

2 - JBL ES250PBK (400W/700W) - $200

3 - Energy Power 12 - $235

4 - MartinLogan Dynamo 300 - $300

5 - Klipsh RW-12d - $350


While these are the subs I have taken a liking to given their balance with price/performance...if you know of any killer deals out there just let me know! I would appreciate some comments...
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
16,232 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
The Klipsch RW12d is probably the best performer especially for extension/depth.


The Jbl ES250PBK looks to be very good for the price, but Jbl has a reputation for subwoofer plate amp failure so do some research on the failure rate of that model.


The other Jbl has a slightly weaker amp and a smaller 10" driver which would negatively impact frequency response compared to the Klipsch RW12d and Jbl ES250PBK.


The Energy is a little under powered and has weak frequency response/extension.


The Martin Logan is on sale for 130$ on amazon, but even if you bought 2 it wouldn't be enough for a large room with it's 8" driver and 75 watt amp.


Another option would be to buy 2 cheaper subs like Bic F12's, Bic V-1020's, Bic V-1220's, Dayton Sub 1200's, etc.

However if the Jbl ES250PBK doesn't have a high failure rate and performs close to it's spec there are very few dual sub purchases that would be more cost effective.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts

Quote:
word on the net is the jbl has amp problems...how about looking at the PA-150. Does not extend the deepest but will have twice the output of anything mentioned above from 40hz on up.

While the Pa-150 certianly isn't flat to 25hz, it's not a 40hz mid-bass module either:
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=systems&col=name&type=0&sort=asc&mfr=-1


The Pa-150 is down 4 db from 40hz to 31.5 hz easily making it a decent 30hz-40hz performer. The port tune is 25hz but it's down 10db by that point which would be a noticeable drop even after room gain.


For comparison the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Ex is 10db down from 31.5-16hz at it's lowest tuning (one port plugged) and 9db down from 31.5-20hz at it's highest tuning.

It's specs are +-2db at 16hz (one port plugged) and +-2db at 22hz (no ports plugged).


The Pa-150 does perform very well up high but it is also a fair bit better (9db better at 20hz) than another popular budget sub, the 22hz rated Bic pl-200 down low as well.


Many Jbl's have had amp issues which is why it's good to proceed with caution but that's not to say they haven't strived to improve that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,480 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik James  /t/1475250/best-subwoofer-for-350-or-less-large-room#post_23379871


While the Pa-150 certianly isn't flat to 25hz, it's not a 40hz mid-bass module either:
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=systems&col=name&type=0&sort=asc&mfr=-1


The Pa-150 is down 4 db from 40hz to 31.5 hz easily making it a decent 30hz-40hz performer. The port tune is 25hz but it's down 10db by that point which would be a noticeable drop even after room gain.


For comparison the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Ex is 10db down from 31.5-16hz at it's lowest tuning (one port plugged) and 9db down from 31.5-20hz at it's highest tuning.

It's specs are +-2db at 16hz (one port plugged) and +-2db at 22hz (no ports plugged).


The Pa-150 does perform very well up high but it is also a fair bit better (9db better at 20hz) than another popular budget sub, the 22hz rated Bic pl-200 down low as well.


Many Jbl's have had amp issues which is why it's good to proceed with caution but that's not to say they haven't strived to improve that.
yes its great subwoofer for the money...not sure why you quoted my post as I am familiar with everything you posted.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,663 Posts
No matter what, take that Energy sub off that list. Energy used to make very high quality subs for the money, but that sub is just WEAK plus gets down to only 35hZ...for a 12 inch sub? My Energy s10.2 subs that are 10 inch subs get down to about 24hZ easy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,486 Posts
So I wonder why the PA-150 doesn't handle anything down below 35hz-ish well? I'm sure more power would help, but I thought I remember reading that someone ran the numbers in WINisd and they said if you raised the tune to something like 30hz or 32hz it would really bring up the SPL numbers around 30hz and make it more in line with it's 40hz+ numbers.


It does look like it has a ton at 40+, but if the Klipsch goes quite a bit deeper then it might not be worth the extra $50 or so (if the Klipsch is back at $300 soon).
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
15,491 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2  /t/1475250/best-subwoofer-for-350-or-less-large-room#post_23381995


So I wonder why the PA-150 doesn't handle anything down below 35hz-ish well? I'm sure more power would help, but I thought I remember reading that someone ran the numbers in WINisd and they said if you raised the tune to something like 30hz or 32hz it would really bring up the SPL numbers around 30hz and make it more in line with it's 40hz+ numbers.
Rule #1 of loudspeaker design: There's no such thing as a free lunch. You may design a driver/speaker to go lower, you may design a driver/speaker to go louder, but you can't design a driver/speaker to go both lower and louder without making it larger and/or more expensive. This is a codicil to Hoffman's Iron Law, which not even Chuck Norris can break.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,705 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81  /t/1475250/best-subwoofer-for-350-or-less-large-room#post_23379564


word on the net is the jbl has amp problems...how about looking at the PA-150. Does not extend the deepest but will have twice the output of anything mentioned above from 40hz on up.

Agreed. Should have enough output down into the low 30hz range. Other subs may have better 20hz extension, but if they don't have enough SPL, what's the point of having the extra extension and not having enough above 30hz output?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts

Quote:
yes its great subwoofer for the money...not sure why you quoted my post as I am familiar with everything you posted.

I may have been nit picking a bit, but the way you worded it made it sound as though the Pa-150 suddenly dropped after 40hz when in room it should be easily good to 30hz.


It doesn't look like a great deal either way for around 370$ on amazon though when the Klipsch regularly goes on sale for around 300$ and the Jbl is 200$.

Unless the pa-150 can be had for less elsewhere?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,480 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik James  /t/1475250/best-subwoofer-for-350-or-less-large-room#post_23383674


I may have been nit picking a bit, but the way you worded it made it sound as though the Pa-150 suddenly dropped after 40hz when in room it should be easily good to 30hz.


It doesn't like a great deal either way for around 370$ on amazon though when the Klipsch regularly goes on sale for around 300$ and the Jbl is 200$.

Unless the pa-150 can be had for less elsewhere?

no i was just pointing out where it shines compared to other subs in the same price category...either way no biggie.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,480 Posts
l
Quote:
Originally Posted by ousooner2  /t/1475250/best-subwoofer-for-350-or-less-large-room#post_23381995


So I wonder why the PA-150 doesn't handle anything down below 35hz-ish well? I'm sure more power would help, but I thought I remember reading that someone ran the numbers in WINisd and they said if you raised the tune to something like 30hz or 32hz it would really bring up the SPL numbers around 30hz and make it more in line with it's 40hz+ numbers.


It does look like it has a ton at 40+, but if the Klipsch goes quite a bit deeper then it might not be worth the extra $50 or so (if the Klipsch is back at $300 soon).

the pa150 has more lowend output than the klipsch or any sub in its price class... 93db @ 20hz 2m. It just looks like it does not because of the plethora of midbass output it has. you would need 4 rw12's stacked to equal the midbass of the pa150.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,303 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81  /t/1475250/best-subwoofer-for-350-or-less-large-room#post_23383869


you would need 4 rw12's stacked to equal the midbass of the pa150.

As an owner of three Klipsch subwoofers, I can safely say the above qualifies as a gross exaggeration. This is based on room measurements and not conjecture.


In the next few days when I set up to do sweeps, I'll see what I come up with using four and one meter (at the wife's listening position) measurements as currently, at the main listening position, we're easily able to reach a measured 108dB and at the wife's listening position we're easily able to reach 114dB which are 4m measurements.


Of course, the wife is out on the front porch when I'm doing this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,480 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458  /t/1475250/best-subwoofer-for-350-or-less-large-room#post_23383918


As an owner of three Klipsch subwoofers, I can safely say the above qualifies as a gross exaggeration. This is based on room measurements and not conjecture.


In the next few days when I set up to do sweeps, I'll see what I come up with using four and one meter (at the wife's listening position) measurements as currently, at the main listening position, we're easily able to reach a measured 108dB and at the wife's listening position we're easily able to reach 114dB which are 4m measurements.


Of course, the wife is out on the front porch when I'm doing this.

the pa150 hits 118db peak 2m ground plane...the rw12 measures roughly 105-107db 2m or 116db 1m. 3 more rw12's colocated would add another 10-12db. whats a gross exaggeration?


in the lower bass they are probably similar 1 for 1...i am just pointing out how much midbass a pa150 has. Its up there with a rythmik FV15HP and more than a PB13U.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,303 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81  /t/1475250/best-subwoofer-for-350-or-less-large-room#post_23383989


the pa150 hits 118db @ 63hz 2m ground plane...the rw12 measures roughly 105-107db @ 30hz. 3 more rw12's colocated would add another 10-12db. whats a gross exaggeration?

What does the PA-150 measure at 30Hz which is the figure your using for the Klipsch?


At two meters, with three subs, we're easily able to reach 117dB and this is 22Hz to 150Hz at +/-3dB with the exception of a small -4dB room induced null at ~80Hz. The comments are based on real world, in room measurements, not manufacture's specs.


As I posted, when doing some room measurements, if I can, I'll do some measurements and see what I can find. In my opinion, based on in room personal measurements, it's a gross exaggeration. I see that Data-Bass has one measured and we all know that we're worried about output in the
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,705 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458  /t/1475250/best-subwoofer-for-350-or-less-large-room#post_23384013


Have you measured the output of a PA-150 or are you going off manufacture specs?

Supposed to memorize which subs are on here, like the rest of us


http://www.data-bass.com/systems
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,303 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145  /t/1475250/best-subwoofer-for-350-or-less-large-room#post_23384019


Supposed to memorize which subs are on here, like the rest of us


http://www.data-bass.com/systems

Ya got me. I was slow on the uptake but ended up there and amended my comments accordingly.



(and please, none of my comments are intended as a knock on the PA-150 as I'm just keeping it real)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,480 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458  /t/1475250/best-subwoofer-for-350-or-less-large-room#post_23384013


What does the PA-150 measure at 30Hz which is the figure your using for the Klipsch?


At two meters, with three subs, we're easily able to reach 117dB and this is 22Hz to 150Hz at +/-3dB with the exception of a small -4dB room induced null at ~80Hz. The comments are based on real world, in room measurements, not manufacture's specs.


As I posted, when doing some room measurements, if I can, I'll do some measurements and see what I can find. In my opinion, based on in room personal measurements, it's a gross exaggeration. I see that Data-Bass has one measured and we all know that we're worried about output in the
 
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
Top