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Any hope for a true 9.2.4 Atmos AV Receiver or Pre/Pro that isn't the crazy $$$ options like Trinnov, etc?


I just added an Emotiva 5 Channel while they are on sale but I'm not sure what to pair it with to get there.
Right now I don't think there is one, not sure if the 13 channel pre/pro's will do it or not.
I'm waiting to see if the Emotiva XMR-1 comes to fruition, if it does, it may be the only sub $10k option besides running two 7.1.4 units simultaneously.

Honestly, running two matching 7.2.4 units simultaneously will still be cheaper (even with a Emo 40% card) and you could run 8 discrete heights, if you wanted to.....
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Right now I don't think there is one, not sure if the 13 channel pre/pro's will do it or not.
I'm waiting to see if the Emotiva XMR-1 comes to fruition, if it does, it may be the only sub $10k option besides running two 7.1.4 units simultaneously.

Honestly, running two matching 7.2.4 units simultaneously will still be cheaper (even with a Emo 40% card) and you could run 8 discrete heights, if you wanted to.....

How does the Matching units setup work? I pre-ran for even more speakers for future but actually have these speakers installed (11.2.4) (or in the process of installing) See Pic
 

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How does the Matching units setup work? I pre-ran for even more speakers for future but actually have these speakers installed (11.2.4) (or in the process of installing) See Pic
First they would have to be exact matching units to work properly, and you'd have to be prepared to split all of your incoming HDMI signals in two, and use the standard IR remote so that both units would do the exact same thing under command.

Basically, you set them up separately, and make sure that both units have the same pre-set turn on volume level.
One unit runs your desired speakers for it and the HDMI out for video, turn off that unit and set the other for the additional speakers only. The only real pain is in the setup, once all the speaker are set, it would work like any other system, as long as the IR remote is used so that it controlled both units at once.
If you only had two sources and one of them was an Oppo, it could even act as the splitter since it's got two outputs, even simpler.

My setup is 9.4.8 and could easily expand to 11.4.8, right now I'm just splitting and doubling channels until the XMR-1 is either announced or shelved, then I'll decide what to do from there, I've got a 40% off card stashed away.

Example:
Unit 1 would run:
L/C/R
Surrounds
Rears
FH & TM or TR
Unit 2 would run:
Wides
Secondary Rears (if you wanted to run 11)
TF & RH or TR

Plus you'd have 4 individual Sub Outs for additional fine tuning.

It would take extra time and care to setup, but once it's done it would all operate as normal.
 

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Atmos Home doesn't use wide channels and height, top, ceiling play the same sounds...
Atmos itself uses Wides, DSU doesn't, except in the Yamaha's because they don't offer wides as an option.
Each Top or Height location plays it's own discreet signal, the only mono top signal is Auro3d's VOG. We're also know that DTS-X should, not sure about Neural-X yet.
 

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Each [Atmos] Top or Height location plays it's own discrete signal, the only mono top signal is Auro3d's VOG. We're also know that DTS-X should, not sure about Neural-X yet.

The existing DTS-HD codec supposedly already includes these two 7.1 speaker playback configurations which contain unpaired elevated speakers, although I've never heard of any AVR which offered either of them as a setup option...? Nonetheless, I will be interested to see if this capability is retained for DTS:X|Neural:X...?!


Configuration #3: 7.1 Center Overhead



Configuration #7: 7.1 Center Height



_
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Any hope for a true 9.2.4 Atmos AV Receiver or Pre/Pro that isn't the crazy $$$ options like Trinnov, etc?


I just added an Emotiva 5 Channel while they are on sale but I'm not sure what to pair it with to get there.

I had hoped for a mainstream solution for my 9.2.4 search from this year's CES. Any rumors with the big Receiver Manufacturers for a true 9.2.4 system?
 

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I had hoped for a mainstream solution for my 9.2.4 search from this year's CES. Any rumors with the big Receiver Manufacturers for a true 9.2.4 system?

We should all put in requests to the mainstream AVR manufacturers along with the smaller makers like Emotiva and Outlaw that are supposedly working on atmos preamps.

If enough of us are interested that will show that there is real interest. Some percentage of those email requests will turn into real sales if the units are made.

The reality:

It doesn't seem like of the high volume AVR manufacturers are interested in going beyound 7.2.4 or 9.2.2 right now... Lets hope they are just waiting for Atmos and DTS:X to succeed in the market (which is really yet to be seen). Until people actually experience atmos with 7.2.4 or higher this probably won't change (much like how most households didn't even have 5.1 until the 2000's)

It seems to me that the vast majority of the high end AVR market is still for 5.1 surround where the customers. The 5.1 customers that buy high end AVRs don't care about atmos. They either legitimately care about high quality 2ch and 5.1 OR they want bragging rights of owning the highest feature/power AVR on the market... That is fine and makes sense but it also hurts the atmos feature set.

The industry only invests in one flagship AVR that has to meet both the needs of people who want atmos with lots of channels AND people who want high quality 5.1/7.1... Therefore the costs and complexities of having both features tends to limit what we get.

I actually think that it would make sense to reduce the number of amplified channels in AVRs and make a hybrid preamp/AVR with 6-8 channels of amplification and processing for 13 or 15 channels. Removing some of the amps could allow the AVR to have more budget for the processor both in cost and heat.

IMO 9.x.6 would be enough for almost everyone. There would be a few that would then want 9.x.8 but that would be far less people than the ones who want 9.x.4...

The idea isn't anything crazy, it is just an extension of the current idea of 9 channels of amplification and 11 channels of processing that requires an external stereo amp for 7.2.4. It is a win win because it generally makes more sense to use the external amp for the more demanding main speakers rather than the atmos speakers. This would probably require that the amplifiers be re-assignable but that feature exists on some AVRs now.

With a 7 channel amplified AVR and preouts for the rest it would require a 6 channel amplifier to get to 9.4.4. That is certainly possible in one box with what is on the market in the form of either as a 6 channel amp or a 7 channel amp (with one channel quiescent either in the AVR or external amp).

A nice 7 channel amp at 125-200 amps would work great.

With all of that said...

I think our best bet is with the amplifier companies like Outlaw/Emotiva and their preamps because more atmos channels means they sell more of their bread and butter amplifiers.

-Rich
 
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Discussion Starter #9
I actually think that it would make sense to reduce the number of amplified channels in AVRs and make a hybrid preamp/AVR with 6-8 channels of amplification and processing for 13 or 15 channels. Removing some of the amps could allow the AVR to have more budget for the processor both in cost and heat.

IMO 9.x.6 would be enough for almost everyone. There would be a few that would then want 9.x.8 but that would be far less people than the ones who want 9.x.4...

-Rich

I completely agree. Most of us use external amplifiers for many of the channels anyway. I bought an Emotiva 5 when they were on sale this month. :)
 

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The existing DTS-HD codec supposedly already includes these two 7.1 speaker playback configurations which contain unpaired elevated speakers, although I've never heard of any AVR which offered either of them as a setup option...? Nonetheless, I will be interested to see if this capability is retained for DTS:X|Neural:X...?!

[Pictures deleted for brevity / server space]




_
If those are the DTS:X height / in-ceiling configurations, how will receivers cope with a speaker setup like 7.2.4 for Atmos playing a DTS:X Blu-Ray? Will the same overhead signal be sent to all four in-ceiling speakers or just one? I hope it's the former....
 

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If those are the DTS:X height / in-ceiling configurations, how will receivers cope with a speaker setup like 7.2.4 for Atmos playing a DTS:X Blu-Ray? Will the same overhead signal be sent to all four in-ceiling speakers or just one? I hope it's the former....
I am pretty sure that DTS:X should also support the 7.2.4 speaker layout directly as an alternate to what is shown above. There is no "native" speaker layout with Atmos or DTS:X there is however a limit to what AVRs support. Without the ability to place speakers in infinite locations in the room via a truely configurable speaker layout in the AVR they just give us common options to work with.

The above pictures are just one option for DTS:X that uses a different layout from the base atmos layout. They don't say that DTS:X can't use the atmos layout.

DTS:X is also an object based format so it will map the objects to whatever speakers you have (and your AVR supports).

-Rich
 

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First they would have to be exact matching units to work properly, and you'd have to be prepared to split all of your incoming HDMI signals in two, and use the standard IR remote so that both units would do the exact same thing under command.

Basically, you set them up separately, and make sure that both units have the same pre-set turn on volume level.
One unit runs your desired speakers for it and the HDMI out for video, turn off that unit and set the other for the additional speakers only. The only real pain is in the setup, once all the speaker are set, it would work like any other system, as long as the IR remote is used so that it controlled both units at once.
If you only had two sources and one of them was an Oppo, it could even act as the splitter since it's got two outputs, even simpler.

My setup is 9.4.8 and could easily expand to 11.4.8, right now I'm just splitting and doubling channels until the XMR-1 is either announced or shelved, then I'll decide what to do from there, I've got a 40% off card stashed away.

Example:
Unit 1 would run:
L/C/R
Surrounds
Rears
FH & TM or TR
Unit 2 would run:
Wides
Secondary Rears (if you wanted to run 11)
TF & RH or TR

Plus you'd have 4 individual Sub Outs for additional fine tuning.

It would take extra time and care to setup, but once it's done it would all operate as normal.
This is indeed a clever solution: Please help me with my current situation

1. I have Oppo BDP 103, Anthem MRX 720 and Sony 7.1 Receiver. I have 9.2.4 speakers in place already and if this works, plans to ass another ceiling pair.

How can I leverage your theory and turn into a working solution? Any inputs would be highly appreciated.

AKK
 

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First they would have to be exact matching units to work properly, and you'd have to be prepared to split all of your incoming HDMI signals in two, and use the standard IR remote so that both units would do the exact same thing under command.

Basically, you set them up separately, and make sure that both units have the same pre-set turn on volume level.
One unit runs your desired speakers for it and the HDMI out for video, turn off that unit and set the other for the additional speakers only. The only real pain is in the setup, once all the speaker are set, it would work like any other system, as long as the IR remote is used so that it controlled both units at once.
If you only had two sources and one of them was an Oppo, it could even act as the splitter since it's got two outputs, even simpler.

My setup is 9.4.8 and could easily expand to 11.4.8, right now I'm just splitting and doubling channels until the XMR-1 is either announced or shelved, then I'll decide what to do from there, I've got a 40% off card stashed away.

Example:
Unit 1 would run:
L/C/R
Surrounds
Rears
FH & TM or TR
Unit 2 would run:
Wides
Secondary Rears (if you wanted to run 11)
TF & RH or TR

Plus you'd have 4 individual Sub Outs for additional fine tuning.

It would take extra time and care to setup, but once it's done it would all operate as normal.
This is indeed a clever solution: Please help me with my current situation

1. I have Oppo BDP 103, Anthem MRX 720 and Sony 7.1 Receiver. I have 9.2.4 speakers in place already and if this works, plans to ass another ceiling pair.

How can I leverage your theory and turn into a working solution? Any inputs would be highly appreciated.

AKK
 

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This is indeed a clever solution: Please help me with my current situation

1. I have Oppo BDP 103, Anthem MRX 720 and Sony 7.1 Receiver. I have 9.2.4 speakers in place already and if this works, plans to ass another ceiling pair.

How can I leverage your theory and turn into a working solution? Any inputs would be highly appreciated.

AKK
I did a slight synopsis on "how to" here:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/2046682-official-immersive-audio-discussion-thread-atmos-dts-x-auro-95.html

Post #2840 , see if it helps.
 

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I setup with Anthem MRX 1120, with 7.2.8.. what I observed was, the atmos sound is repeated to other 4 speakers, meaning the same sound duplicated in 4 speakers and they are not discrete. I tested with Dolby atmos 2015 demo disc and there is clip for helicopter demo where the sound comes from 4 ceiling speakers if connected only 1 anthem receiver. When I truned on other Anthem receiver, the sound is duplicated.. If this is the case, why cant we connect speakers either in parallel or series?
 

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I hope an Atmos/DTS:X/Auro 3D receiver with 9 internal amps plus 7 additional pre-outs gets released. One can get a 7 channel amp to drive the normal 7 bed channels. The AVR would then switch between the other effect channels depending on configuration with a maximum 9 effect channels driven at any one time. Then one can do 9.2.6 Atmos, 7.5.2.1 Auro 3D and whatever layout DTS:X allows once it becomes more mainstream. Or one can just use the 9 internal amps as current AVRs allow. It's all about processing power and a little about pre-outs and real estate (having a big enough AVR to have room for all the needed pre-outs).

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk
 

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I setup with Anthem MRX 1120, with 7.2.8.. what I observed was, the atmos sound is repeated to other 4 speakers, meaning the same sound duplicated in 4 speakers and they are not discrete. I tested with Dolby atmos 2015 demo disc and there is clip for helicopter demo where the sound comes from 4 ceiling speakers if connected only 1 anthem receiver. When I truned on other Anthem receiver, the sound is duplicated.. If this is the case, why cant we connect speakers either in parallel or series?
Are you able to actively switch between TF/RF and FH/RH speakers? That could be very useful if one wants to do Auro 3D, Atmos and DTS:X.

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk
 

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After thinking about this a bit more I think we should push the AVR makers to optionally support 7.2.4 (5.1.4+FW) with:

7.1 (5.1+FW) instead of 7.1 (5.1+SB) 4 atmos height speakers is an easier format to enhance.

This would still require a lot of processing horsepower because it would have 6 atmos channels (FW+4 height) instead of the current 4 (FW+2 height OR 4 height) but it wouldn't require support for 13 channels at once. This is similar to what Audyssey did with their 7.1 setup where FW could be chosen instead of SB.

The SB are easy to add in with low cost equipment so that is no big deal.

A cheap $30 decoder box or old AVR via toslink can create the SB speaker preouts and then we could set the levels manually....

It could be expanded to 3.1+FW with 6 atmos speakers but that seems less likely for AVR makers to buy into...

The basic concept is that we really only need something to process FW+atmos height speakers because the base layer content is basically normal 7.1 and almost any receiver can handle that (even if there is some . Keeping the 3.1 on a high quality AVR would be very desirable but the surrounds could be done with a cheaper unit.

Basically I am proposing splitting the duties of the AVRs between atmos and base layer.

I would be perfectly happy with an atmos only unit (an AVR would be great given that my fidelity requirements are less for the atmos channels). This unit would then overlay over the normal AVR.

The real problem is that it would allow people to skip the upgrade of their main AVR and only buy the atmos overlay unit so it probably isn't as profitable for the mainline guys. A smaller niche company might be able to do it though.

-Rich
 

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I setup with Anthem MRX 1120, with 7.2.8.. what I observed was, the atmos sound is repeated to other 4 speakers, meaning the same sound duplicated in 4 speakers and they are not discrete. I tested with Dolby atmos 2015 demo disc and there is clip for helicopter demo where the sound comes from 4 ceiling speakers if connected only 1 anthem receiver. When I truned on other Anthem receiver, the sound is duplicated.. If this is the case, why cant we connect speakers either in parallel or series?
That's exactly what I would expect to happen. No matter how many x.y receivers you run side by side, you'll never get more than x.y discrete channels.
 

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My current 7.4 setup is not even close to being maxed out. Maybe the manufacturers and content providers should first use 7.4 effectively before thinking about adding more channels.
 
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