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Do you have a link to that design?
lol... I was just about to tag Mike. Was literally just talking to him last week about them. He said they're very close to the ALCONS. More so than ALCONS would like to admit.

@Javs

@Mike Garrett


@A9X-308


Are you guys using just the raw Beyma TPL-150?


http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma tpl150-1.htm


Or the one with the 80Hx30V waveguide, the TPL-150H?


http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma tpl150h-1.htm


If the waveguide version, have you heard a SEOS waveguide and can comment on the differences and similarities?


I'm a big fan of the SEOS waveguide. I love the soundstage it gives. Wonder if a larger version like the SEOS24 would have a throat big enough to fit the Beyman TPL-150.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1530592-baffle-wall-build-using-beyma-tpl-150h.html

I will let Mike fill in the rest.



To the OP, are you planning on designing a crossover based on measurements you received from someone else?
 

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Discussion Starter #22
To the OP, are you planning on designing a crossover based on measurements you received from someone else?


No way ! That would be a wrong way to build a speaker :) I'm only using these files to see if the speaker would actually work together that's all. I didn't want to spend 1800$ on a pair of DIY speakers with an envision they are going to be good for 2 channel hifi.. Id rather waste my time & learn something than buy the drivers build boxes and it goes to pooh & not work.. make sense ?
 

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I was considering building a 12" 2-way with one of these but the vertical directivity is a little crazy.

Design it for the listening axis? pretty simple no.

All AMT's will have directivity like that because they are tall. I have to get up out of my chair to hear a change in the top end. In all my TPL designs I put it right at ear height in the speaker.
 

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lol... I was just about to tag Mike. Was literally just talking to him last week about them. He said they're very close to the ALCONS. More so than ALCONS would like to admit.

@Javs

@Mike Garrett


@A9X-308


Are you guys using just the raw Beyma TPL-150?


http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma tpl150-1.htm


Or the one with the 80Hx30V waveguide, the TPL-150H?


http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma tpl150h-1.htm


If the waveguide version, have you heard a SEOS waveguide and can comment on the differences and similarities?


I'm a big fan of the SEOS waveguide. I love the soundstage it gives. Wonder if a larger version like the SEOS24 would have a throat big enough to fit the Beyman TPL-150.
Wave-guide. SEOS wont fit anyway. No issues with soundstage here.

This is my most recent project with them. I seriously dont think I can do better than these towers now. Freaking incredible.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/2858234-javs-modular-tower-wmtw-15fh520-beyma-12p80nd-v2-tpl-150h.html
 

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Design it for the listening axis? pretty simple no.

All AMT's will have directivity like that because they are tall. I have to get up out of my chair to hear a change in the top end. In all my TPL designs I put it right at ear height in the speaker.
Off axis response is important beyond that. Still, that's what's kept me away from those :(

I remember seeing one at some point that had better response, but can't remember which.
 

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Off axis response is important beyond that. Still, that's what's kept me away from those :(
You are surely missing out.

The vertical directivity at those frequencies becomes kind irrelevant man. Its already going to be getting into laser beam territory The AMT ribbon is about 10cm high. From a distance you are going to be sitting WELL inside its directivity window anyway, I've not had any issues with this on my builds using it.

 

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You are surely missing out.

The vertical directivity at those frequencies becomes kind irrelevant man. Its already going to be getting into laser beam territory The AMT ribbon is about 10cm high. From a distance you are going to be sitting WELL inside its directivity window anyway, I've not had any issues with this on my builds using it.


The issue isn't with the listening window, it's with having consistent off axis response. Toole and Olive cover this extensively. It is not irrelevant.

And no, not missing out. I prefer the large format beryllium compression drivers on big waveguides I'm using which hold pattern nicely an octave below the tpl150h... I was just tossing around the build idea for fun/friends. Still kicking it around, but not sure what hf driver would get used. I saw a ribbon that measured fairly well I meant to look into closer, but can't remember which at the moment :( The TPL150 ticks all the awesome boxes for me except vertical DI.




l/r xover with the big waveguides @ 650hz


center xover with smaller waveguide @ 800hz
 

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@Javs , your towers look great btw. That's a lot of firepower in that room.
Thanks a lot, I am actually super psyched to be able to put them in a nice deep room behind a screen hopefull in the next year or two. That, and build the 3rd one for my Center to be identical.

Going fully active was definitely the best thing I did.
 

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Thanks a lot, I am actually super psyched to be able to put them in a nice deep room behind a screen hopefull in the next year or two. That, and build the 3rd one for my Center to be identical.

Going fully active was definitely the best thing I did.
I'm fascinated about going fully active on a design like that. Is it fairly easy then to determine crossover points and just measure to get the final result? Is there anything besides FR that has to be considered? phase? polarity? directivity?

Is it dramatically easier than building a passive network?

There always seem to be a lot of variables discussed in the design process that I'm not sure I fully understand how to optimize...
 

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Discussion Starter #32
I'm fascinated about going fully active on a design like that. Is it fairly easy then to determine crossover points and just measure to get the final result? Is there anything besides FR that has to be considered? phase? polarity? directivity?

Is it dramatically easier than building a passive network?

There always seem to be a lot of variables discussed in the design process that I'm not sure I fully understand how to optimize...
LOTS of factors. Still have to measure each driver etc etc..
 

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I'm fascinated about going fully active on a design like that. Is it fairly easy then to determine crossover points and just measure to get the final result? Is there anything besides FR that has to be considered? phase? polarity? directivity?

Is it dramatically easier than building a passive network?

There always seem to be a lot of variables discussed in the design process that I'm not sure I fully understand how to optimize...
Yes.. FR, Phase, directivity, output level, time delay, etc need to match through the xover region.

The process to do it right is still pretty much the same, you're just building filters in software instead of electronically. This bit can speed things up significantly.

Using FIR filtering can make things a little easier, as you can have flat phase response in the xover band.
 

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center xover with smaller waveguide @ 800hz
What does it look like without FIR correction though?

Is that nearfield or time gated farfield?
i.e. How in the world are you getting that flat at 10-20ft back... assuming you are including the wall/ceiling/floor reflections;
or is that big room of yours causing mostly direct-only sound or what here?
 

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Subscribed to this thread. I’ve been getting into main design too now that my theater is done and I’m looking to build out a 2 channel hifi music space. I know there are some great designs already out there but dang I want high efficiency because I love the dynamics of my HTM12s.

I’ve been eyeing the same tweeter as OP and debating if I want to go 2-way vs 3-way. I think 2way is harder with this tweeter given the crossover restrictions (though I have seen 1-2 designs with crossovers in the 900-1200hz range). So still going through woofer research. Plenty of time since it’s still too dang cold out in my Unheated garage to build and measure new boxes. So I have a few weeks :).

@notnyt I’m mostly with you in that I love the ability to cross CDs with Seos waveguides down lower than the tpl150. I also love how the CDs in the HTM line sound. But I’m curious on ribbon/amt and so figured why not try it it for a pair of Stereo speakers. I’m on the same island as you so if I do go forward with the tpl150h, maybe we can do a comparison of yours vs these somewhere down the line. Might be a few months though as I am still learning about speaker and crossover design.

OP, I’m in for your ride with this tweeter so keep this thread updated please!
 

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What does it look like without FIR correction though?
Not sure what you mean, they're fully active speakers, so all crossover, shaping, and room correction is done with FIR filtering...

Without the filtering the raw components look like this, windowed and averaged around the listening position



Is that nearfield or time gated farfield?
i.e. How in the world are you getting that flat at 10-20ft back... assuming you are including the wall/ceiling/floor reflections;
or is that big room of yours causing mostly direct-only sound or what here?
What you quoted is the supposed output after building the filters. It measures about that in room though, as you can see in the spatially averaged graph I posted above. I just posted those so you could see the crossover curves.

The large room, controlled directivity speakers, and the treated reflection points go a long way into having a nice response at the listening position, though.

T30


Impulse ETC


(and before ceiling treatments, you can see how that reflection, though minor, shows at 3 and 4 ms)

Yellow is the close mic measurement (2ft) of only the HF section with 1/20 octave frequency dependent window. Red is a vector average of 4 measurements taken with the mic placed in front of the couch pointed directly at the speaker with 1/12 octave fdw. Green is a vector average of 4 measurements taken over the couch, mic pointed straight up essentially in positions your head would be, with the same windowing. Calibration files specific to the mic orientation were used. Distance at the listening position is about 4 meters (13-14ft). On the yellow nearfield trace, you can see the rolloff from the xover at 800hz on the left side and the attenuation (or lack of) of the HF frequencies over distance on the right side. Otherwise, they overlay nicely.

 

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Discussion Starter #37
OP, I’m in for your ride with this tweeter so keep this thread updated please!

Not sure I'm going to go with this. I just wanted a good 2 way "large " book shelf that was going to be good for 2 channel stereo. It kinda went off topic. Some say it will work some say it wont. I don't want to dedicate a subwoofer to this. I have one but id rather just use my 2 class a amplifiers and 2 speakers and try to get max bass from it. Kinda why i picked the Satori 9.5" it's close to a 10" and fits the budget & box size i was willing to use.
 

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Subscribed to this thread. I’ve been getting into main design too now that my theater is done and I’m looking to build out a 2 channel hifi music space. I know there are some great designs already out there but dang I want high efficiency because I love the dynamics of my HTM12s.

I’ve been eyeing the same tweeter as OP and debating if I want to go 2-way vs 3-way. I think 2way is harder with this tweeter given the crossover restrictions (though I have seen 1-2 designs with crossovers in the 900-1200hz range). So still going through woofer research. Plenty of time since it’s still too dang cold out in my Unheated garage to build and measure new boxes. So I have a few weeks :).

@notnyt I’m mostly with you in that I love the ability to cross CDs with Seos waveguides down lower than the tpl150. I also love how the CDs in the HTM line sound. But I’m curious on ribbon/amt and so figured why not try it it for a pair of Stereo speakers. I’m on the same island as you so if I do go forward with the tpl150h, maybe we can do a comparison of yours vs these somewhere down the line. Might be a few months though as I am still learning about speaker and crossover design.

OP, I’m in for your ride with this tweeter so keep this thread updated please!
I'd say 1200 is the low end for the tpl150h. It loses pattern control rapidly below there.

IMO Build a 2-way with 2453H-SL CD on STX825 waveguide. It blows away any of the CD/WG combos in the DIYSG line. It can pair well with 12s or 15s. See link in my sig for 15" 2-way build. An MTM would be ideal to help match vertical directivity better if you can manage the space/budget.
 

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I'd say 1200 is the low end for the tpl150h. It loses pattern control rapidly below there.
Indeed, and by doing active, I can pretty safely use it with 36-48db/octave crossover and it sounds amazing.

Something I am loving about active is just how well you can get the drivers looking with some filters before you even start messing with crossover shapes etc.

Its true you do still have to go through the whole crossover process in about the same way as Passive, but obviously the results at the end are far better. I will probably always do it for any mains, for smaller rears etc, probably not.

This is just what the drivers looked like after putting some PEQ correction before messing with the rest of it. Based on original outdoors measurements. There is a separate bank of PEQ I use for in room correction.





I should look in to FIR. I just did mine with PEQ. But I didnt like what I was reading with regards to the pre-ringing with linear phase.
 

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I should look in to FIR. I just did mine with PEQ. But I didnt like what I was reading with regards to the pre-ringing with linear phase.
Eh, depends on your filters and hardware you're using. I'm not experiencing this issue, but I'm using 16k taps per channel with 1024 delay. That said, if you can match phase without issues at your xover points, there isn't a huge benefit to going FIR. I still want to test this comparing minimum phase to linear phase at some point, but I still haven't found the time.

 
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