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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

Need your expert advice.



which way is the optimal connection for the Paradigm Studio 100's front speakers?


Should i use the Denon 4306 AB surround back and reassign to front to Bi-amp the 100's?

or

Purchase a 200W/ch Amp and pre-out from Denon receiver?


thanks,

Mike
 

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Purchase AMP




True Bi-amping seems like it should work really well, it is very difficult to implment it correctly so it generally doesn't.


Trust me on this one I want it and have been attemtping to get full 7 channel bi amping going for the past few years and I still don't have it going. Really makes you respect speaker deigners a lot more, let me tell you.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkv15 /forum/post/0


Should i use the Denon 4306 AB surround back and reassign to front to Bi-amp the 100's?

can't hurt to try since you have the capability with your 4306.


I've tried it with a new Yamaha receiver and I thought it yielded more bass response- a more "full" sound over-all (yeah, even though it's "passive" bi-amping).


I'll put it this way, I could'nt say there was [no] difference, just a little hard to explain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkv15 /forum/post/0


or purchase a 200W/ch Amp and pre-out from Denon receiver?

this is definitely the better way to go. A separate amp is just more efficient.
 

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The amps in the 4306 are pretty decent. It wouldn't hurt to try bi-amping to see how you like it before going out and spending more money. Passive bi-amping might give you a bit more headroom but the difference won't be significant, and if you're not using the amps why not do it? That's not to say that you won't be happy with what you hear so decide on that first.

Unless you're spending big bucks going from the 140w receiver amps to a 200w outboard amp might not make as much of a difference as you would think, I've been there....


I had the 100's and they do like power. If you decide to try a dedicated amp for your 100's try something like the Rotel 1092; 2X 500w/ch into 8 ohms and 1000w into 4 ohms. I've got some Danish amps with the same ICEpower modules in them and they really compliment the Paradigm S4's I now have.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yea, i started to lean toward a seperate AMP, then i thought if i push it with 2 channels at 130W each, would that yeild better result then 1x200W AMP??


Why would a seperate AMP better?? Please explain...


rnrgagne,

I'm leaning toward Rotel 1095 or Emotiva MPS-1.

Rotel 1092 is 500W/ch, is that too much for the 100s?



M
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkv15 /forum/post/0


Yea, i started to lean toward a seperate AMP, then i thought if i push it with 2 channels at 130W each, would that yeild better result then 1x200W AMP??


Why would a seperate AMP better?? Please explain...


rnrgagne,

I'm leaning toward Rotel 1095 or Emotiva MPS-1.

Rotel 1092 is 500W/ch, is that too much for the 100s?



M

#1 passive bi-amping misconception is thinking the watts add together. They don't.


Passive bi-amping with two 130w amps provides VERY little, if ANY, increase in usable power (volume or headroom) over a single 130w amp.


If you want real-world volume and or headroom increases, you MUST use amps with more power output. There is no way around it (unless you are going to get different speakers with increased efficiency).


On a personal note, I tried passive bi-amping with two 250w amps and could not detect any real change for better or worse. However, I can 100% assure you I did notice a real difference when I tried a single 500w amp...


Do yourself a favor. Buy a more powerful amp if you want a real performance increase that you don't have to guess about and wonder if it truly made any difference.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the explanation Whoaru99.

Ok, I will go with a separate AMP.


Now, which AMP wattage to get? U guys mention 500W, would that blow my speakers if the spec recommend a AMP below 350W.


m
 

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"Yea, i started to lean toward a seperate AMP, then i thought if i push it with 2 channels at 130W each, would that yeild better result then 1x200W AMP??"

Not really, watts is a bit of an over-rated spec. What is really important is the amps ability to "control" the speaker. There are 5 watt amps that can play as loud as 100 watt amps.

Why would a seperate AMP better?? Please explain...

Generally, and I'm being very simplistic, it boils down to the power supply of the amps. Many receivers share the same power supply for everything and only have so much room within which to do so. A separate amp will use it's own power supply and because of the room will also be able to use more capacitance per channel or in other words will have more power available for transient peaks. (Read better control) Receivers are closing the gap though for instance your 4306, if I recall correctly, has a separate power supply for the amp section and two more for the video and audio.

rnrgagne,

I'm leaning toward Rotel 1095 or Emotiva MPS-1.

Rotel 1092 is 500W/ch, is that too much for the 100s?


In a nutshell no, it's not too much.


If you want to run full outboard amplification for five channels, out of the two you've got listed I would go with the Emotiva. Just be sure that the 4306 doesn't meet your needs before you go spending based on these opinions.

The 1092 is in a different league. It has two of the exact same amp modules as in the Bel-Canto Ref1000 monoblocks and the Jeff Rowland Model 501s monos.
 

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What is it that you find inadequate with the current setup?


Whether or not an amp (any amp, regardless of power) damages your speakers is largely up to the operator. An amp more powerful than the speaker rating will not inherently damage them unless you abuse the power.


I'm running my Studio 100's with a 200wpc amp, albeit one of those "high-end" brands, and they seem to do just fine on that.


Something in the 200 - 300wpc range should be more than adequate to run them as long as the amp has a good 4 ohm rating too. The Studio 100's have a fairly wide impedance dip in the mid-bass that varies from about 2.5 - 4 ohms so they do need a "beefy" amp for best performance.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
thanks for all your advice.


what got me was when i switch to 5.1 setup and the volume seem to be lower then if i was running with just the front two speakers???


m
 

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I guess I wouldn't necessarily recommend that you buy an external amp just to try to fix that.


If you can adjust the volume to a satisfactory level and you are pleased with the sound, then buying another amp would not seem necessary to me.


Have you properly calibrated your system?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Have you properly calibrated your system?


Yes, i have. i used Radio Shack SPL meter to level all the speakers.
 

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If the issue is as you say, a volume difference between 2-ch and 5.1 listening, I'm not convinced an outboard amp is the solution. I make that conclusion because if the system is calibrated, even with an outboard amp, all the levels should be essentially the same relationship to each other as they are now.
 

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There could be a couple of reasons for that. First, double check that all your speakers are wired properly, I've been around this hobby for a long time and I still screw that up every so often. Second it could be that you've got a that you've got some type of room issue like a null that's being created when you turn on your surrounds at a certain frequency. You said you level matched it with an SPL meter, have you run the Audyssey?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
thanks for the advice. i will double check the wiring. No, i didnt run the Audyssey, but will try that also.


m
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne /forum/post/0


There are 5 watt amps that can play as loud as 100 watt amps.

That's not true if it is really a actual 100 watt amp. However it can be 'sort of' true under certain conditions, like IF you are never driving the 100 watt amp past 5 watts of total output. But once you need more than 5 watts of power, the 5 watt amp will be left behind by the 100 watt amp.
 

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I've mentioned this on some other forums here and I'm setup biamp on my Yamaha and was pleased with the results. My old very inefficient (86db) speakers sounded much more alive to me. Biamping is great if you have the means to do it and having a receiver that does it makes it a cheap and easy thing to do. However, with that being said I am getting an external B&K amp that will give me approx. 300 watts/ch in my 6 ohm speakers. But I'm doing it for several reasons besides just adding more power. So, to answer your question, Yes, and Yes.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla /forum/post/0


That's not true if it is really a actual 100 watt amp. However it can be 'sort of' true under certain conditions, like IF you are never driving the 100 watt amp past 5 watts of total output. But once you need more than 5 watts of power, the 5 watt amp will be left behind by the 100 watt amp.

Maybe I forgot the 0 - yeah that's it - it should be 50 watts!!

All right, you busted me! I pulled those number out of my a** to overstate a point.
 
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