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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
ok so i've been reading and reading and reading.. i think i need glasses now...

so now i understand bi-wiring and bi-amping.


Now i cant find any.. do you guys know of any receivers the would allow bi-amping with out the loss of my Surround Back channels????

So i can still have a 7.1 setup...
 

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You could probably do it with zones, but it would likely be limited. For example, you could hook up an external amp to one of the zones and biamp that way. But you might be limited to analog only.


If a receiver only has 7 amps, it obviously can't both amp rear surrounds and biamp your fronts, that's not possible.


It's possible a receiver could supply the signals needed to biamp assuming you were running an external amp, but that seems unlikely. Because that would require 9 channels in the line stage.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
so basically i'll have to find a 9.1 recever or a 7.1 with a separate bi-amping stand alone channel..


or is there something else?
 

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i think the flagship denon has 10 channels of amplification and could potentially have this capability--although i am not personally convinced that the bialping option using the same amp makes much difference--you would probably be better off with separates rather than spending that much on an avr if you have more complex needs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
well i do have an old 5.1 receiver i was planning on selling.. (sony STR-DE885)


and the current receiver is a sony STR-DG720


should i attempt? whats the best way to sync the both of them?
 

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Use your AVR as a pre-amp. Put Y cables on the pre-outs. Buy 14 channels of amp, and biamp away.
 

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Using a y cable defeats the purpose of bi-amping. If you can't run a descretely amplified cable to each of the biamp posts then you get no benefits. In fact, it seems that buying a better amp is better then biamping a less good amp unless you're at the point that one amp can't drive your speakers well.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denophile /forum/post/15588000


i think the flagship denon has 10 channels of amplification and could potentially have this capability--although i am not personally convinced that the bialping option using the same amp makes much difference--you would probably be better off with separates rather than spending that much on an avr if you have more complex needs.

No it does not. The amp that matches their flagship processor is a 10-channel amp. But that's going separates, not a receiver. And obviously if you're going separates, you can use as many amp channels as you want. And you can add more amps if you want to and need more than 10 channels of amplification.


But their top-end receiver, the 5308, has 7 amp channels. You can set it up for biwiring, but you can't do biamping AND 7.1 at the same time. You can do biamping and 5.1 though.


Anyway, to answer the OP's question, the simple solution is to buy standalone pairs of amplifiers for the channels you want to biamp (or more if you want to triamp or whatever it is you're doing). Or just go the separates route altogether.


I am not aware of any receiver that has more than 7 amp channels in it. Most people who want to go this route are using a processor and separate amplifiers (as many as they need/want) or they add amps to their receiver and essentially use the receiver either partially or totally as a processor, depending on whether they're just adding external amps to some channels, or for everything.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic69 /forum/post/15588348


well i do have an old 5.1 receiver i was planning on selling.. (sony STR-DE885)


and the current receiver is a sony STR-DG720


should i attempt? whats the best way to sync the both of them?

Also, I am confused, are you looking to replace your current receiver with a new one? Or are you just trying to biamp with what you have? Because that's a really low-end unit, not to be condescending or anything, but it seems to me that you wouldn't have speakers with active crossovers in a system like this that would need to be biamped. If you need more power, upgrade the receiver or amplification in general rather than wasting time passive biamping which really doesn't get you anywhere useful.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic69 /forum/post/15588638


i get what your saying... until when you say

How may speakers do you want to biamp?


Let's assume all 7. Then you need 7 Y cables, and 14 (7x2) seperate power amp channels.


How about if you biamp just the L/C/R out of your 7.1? Then you need 3 Y cables, 4 single cables, and you need 3x2+4=10 amp channels.


Get it?


I biamp my L/C/R/Cs and have 2x Ls/Rs so I need 4x2+2x2 = 12. So I have two 6 channel power amps (Bel Canto Evo 6 Gen II).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sizam /forum/post/15589584


Using a y cable defeats the purpose of bi-amping. If you can't run a descretely amplified cable to each of the biamp posts then you get no benefits. In fact, it seems that buying a better amp is better then biamping a less good amp unless you're at the point that one amp can't drive your speakers well.

I am talking about having the Y cable on the line side (i.e. between preout and power amp input), not the speaker side (between power amp output and speaker posts). Using Y cables (or two parallel cables) on the speaker side is called bi-wiring. I think you are thinking of bi-wiring.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles /forum/post/15589763


No it does not. The amp that matches their flagship processor is a 10-channel amp. But that's going separates, not a receiver. And obviously if you're going separates, you can use as many amp channels as you want. And you can add more amps if you want to and need more than 10 channels of amplification.


But their top-end receiver, the 5308, has 7 amp channels. You can set it up for biwiring, but you can't do biamping AND 7.1 at the same time. You can do biamping and 5.1 though.


Anyway, to answer the OP's question, the simple solution is to buy standalone pairs of amplifiers for the channels you want to biamp (or more if you want to triamp or whatever it is you're doing). Or just go the separates route altogether.


I am not aware of any receiver that has more than 7 amp channels in it. Most people who want to go this route are using a processor and separate amplifiers (as many as they need/want) or they add amps to their receiver and essentially use the receiver either partially or totally as a processor, depending on whether they're just adding external amps to some channels, or for everything.

at least one of their avr flagship models in the last few years had 10 channels of amplification...maybe the newest one has dropped that feature.


for clarification--running the high end drivers and low end drivers with separate amplifiers (whether in the same box or not) is biamping and biwiring is using 2 wires from the same amplification source to run the speaker.


if your avr has preamp outs you can just buy an outboard amp to do the job. i agree with one of the previous posts that you would do better just getting a great outboard amp or separates and not worrying about the biwiring.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denophile /forum/post/15588000


i think the flagship denon has 10 channels of amplification and could potentially have this capability--although i am not personally convinced that the bialping option using the same amp makes much difference--you would probably be better off with separates rather than spending that much on an avr if you have more complex needs.
This AVR was 10.1. It's evidently not made anymore.
 

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The Yamaha RX-Z11 has more than 7 amps.
 

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hope this doesn't start a debate.... but why waste your time, effort, and money? Although neat doubt this will make any difference to the end result.


Better time and money spent would just be doing a typical hipower robust separate amplifier for speakers and forget biamp all together. Even that will probably be subtle to no difference depending on the overall system and how you use it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
thanks for all the input..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denophile /forum/post/15621069


i agree with one of the previous posts that you would do better just getting a great outboard amp or separates and not worrying about the biwiring.

what options are there in going this route?
 

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Getting one good amplifier will be better than kludgy passive bi-amping with crappy low-end receiver amplifiers. If you are really concerned with adding more power with 7.1, get a 7.1 receiver with pre-amp outputs and add an external amp. End of story.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic69 /forum/post/15587798


ok so i've been reading and reading and reading.. i think i need glasses now...

so now i understand bi-wiring and bi-amping.


Now i cant find any.. do you guys know of any receivers the would allow bi-amping with out the loss of my Surround Back channels????

So i can still have a 7.1 setup...

I think I am in the same boat as you. I have a Pioneer vsx-816 that has seven amps in it and can do 7.1 but it can't actually decode any 7.1 sources it just extrapolates the sound for the two sourround back speakers.


So I kept my system as a 5.1 system and bi-amped my two fronts (Polk T90e) using the two front channels and the two sourround back channels. I only have 5.1 but I never really had the choice of true 7.1 anyways.


I can hear a difference but it is only very noticeable at high volumes and the sounds all stay clear and distinct which is VERY nice and can be painful in a good way.


The only drawback is that I am now unable to use the 5.1 analog inputs to send the pcm from my bdp s-300.
 
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