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Is there really a sonic difference when speakers are bi-wired? Sorry for this roockie question, but never done it before and I have my doubts, as the only thing that I am trying to accomplish is the most out of my speakers.....Will I be able to tell a sonic difference if I bi-wire my speakers.........thanks for your advice.
 

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Well, anytime you spend money on something that you believe will improve your system, you are likely to perceive an improvement whether it exists or not. Do you think that biwiring will sound better?


There is no way to figure the emotional and psychological factors that come into play, but scientifically speaking I can find no support for any improvement with biwiring. Since we are fragile beings whose perceptions are not necessarily dictated by logic and science, you may find "huge improvements", "night and day differences", or maybe just "subtle nuances", depending on your personality. I prefer to spend my hard earned money on scientifically proven and measured improvements, but then again, I am a cheapskate. :cool:
 

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A few years ago when I owned ProAc Super Tablettes, I drove them with Quad II monoblocks. I tried biwiring them and didn't notice a differrence. I ended up using one short run (about 4 ft)of speaker cable (the flat Van Den Hull stuff) and put the suppliied shorting pins in to attach the pair of binding posts on the speaker. That's my limited experience with biwiring. I'm guessing if I had larger biwireable speakers (rather than these mini monitors) with much higher amplification power - there would be more of a differrence.
 

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This subject is a hot spot for debate. I bi-wire. I dont really know if there is much of a difference...but if the cost of extra runs of speaker wire arent going to kill you....then why not?
 

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Due to delivery and availability issues, I got to hear my Linn Tukans and 5120 in different stages:


single wire

Bi-wired - couldn't really hear a difference that I'd bet the house on

Passive bi-amped - sounded somewhat better, but probably not worth the incremental $

Active bi-amped - now we're talking!!! Not a subtle difference.


For me personally, it's single wire. If I have a matching channel of amplification handy (i.e., sitting around, no incremental expenditure beyond the wire), I'll bi-amp. If going active is a possibility, that's the ticket.


Claude
 

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Well, hear we go again. Bob Sorel said it best.

There are benefits though, for the speaker cable companies--they can sell more cable.

ClaudeD is also correct. Bi-amping can make a difference. But then bi-amping is NOT bi-wiring.
 

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If you want the best sound from your speakers then you should start with your room. IMO, Room acoustics affect the sound more than any other component (except speakers). A few well placed plants, bookshelves, or carpet can make a world of difference...
 

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Quote:
but scientifically speaking I can find no support for any improvement with biwiring.
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.


It's easy enough for anyone to try for themselves, but it's not "scientific" to simply say that bi-wiring doesn't make a difference because there are no scientific measurements that "prove" there is a difference.


There may not be any proof that there are intelligent extra-terrestials, but it doesn't mean they don't exist. :cool:
 

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Hmmm...I didn't say "proof"....I said "support", and I guess I should have continued with "at this point in time". Maybe someday we will discover a new scientific principle to support biwiring, but I suspect that extraterrestrials will make their presence known long before then. Come to think of it, maybe they can explain the benefits of biwiring to us :)
 

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Well Bob Sorel you seem to have a quirky sence of humor!!

Nether the less I mush aggree in part with your comments. Interestingly I had forward the thread that you are commenting on to a manufacture of speakers here in Australia quite well know in the cinema industry.

Their sales and marketing had to aggree in part and to my surprise. I used it as a angle for them explain how they extoll the virtiures of their speakers. i.e one model against another and the cost and benefit associated from one to another.


They invited me to discuss this issue in detail over the telephone.

So I cant wait to hear what they say.


ben:D
 

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Hey you guys you should check these speakers out from KRIX.


Full details at www.krix.com.au

They make good stuff!!


I believe they have a distributor in the USA!

ben:)
 

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Here is another thought offered from a speaker manufacturer that I read recently.


If one is bi-wiring in shotgun fashion, that is, with 2 explicit runs of speaker cable from the amp to the speaker ... it may be sonically better to upgrade to the next higher grade of speaker cable and not bi-wire.


The same sentiments can be directed at passive bi-amping.

Instead of using 2 "lesser" amp channels per speaker ... go buy a better amp and don't bi-amp.


... you never know until you try.


- Andy
 

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Hi Ben,


I got a copy of your email from the manufacturer, and he seems to be treading carefully so as not to offend anyone who is firmly associated with either camp (a generally wise move from a manufacturer). Since I don't work in the audio manufacturing field and am old enough not to care what people think, I tell it like I see it (or hear it), good or bad, right or wrong.


I have searched for a "positive" double blind test concerning biwiring, and have found none which support the premise that biwiring sounds different in any way whatsoever. As a matter of fact, the only double blind tests concerning cables that showed ANY results better than chance were concerning long runs of speaker cable with differing wire gauges. Yes, if you run a 100 ft. length of 20 gauge speaker cable, and then run the same 100 ft. using 8 gauge cable, SOME people can actually hear a difference, and the ABX tests confirm these results.


If anyone can point me to any carefully conducted ABX tests that confirm the sonic differences of biwiring, I would be willing to accept the results. Now if you spend $1000 on cable and visually see how pretty it looks, then I have no doubt that you will hear wonderful changes in the overall quality of your system, regardless of its current scientific validity. And no one, including me, has the right to tell you otherwise.


But then again, I could make your system sound MANY TIMES BETTER just by feeding you some magic mushrooms...not to mention how incredible the colors will look on your TV :)
 

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I think my situation re bi-wiring was telling. I had the opportunity to bi-wire, because my second set of cables had arrived. By the same token, I had no "cognitive dissonance" to worry about, since my investment was in going active (i.e., using active rather than passive xovers) and I had no personal stake in whether bi-wiring sounded better, worse, or the same.


I bi-wired. I was pretty sure it didn't sound any worse, for sure not a lot worse. I was pretty sure it didn't sound better, for sure not a lot better. Well, I guess it sounded just about the same; any differences were smaller than my acoustic memory could hold, and they didn't have behavioral effects (i.e., I didn't get more/less fatigued, I didn't find myself spending more/less time listening, I didn't pull out all of my favorite music to re-listen, etc.). I could hear this because I didn't have to rationalize the situation to myself; not only had I not spent any money on the bi-wire setup (beyond that which I was spending for another purpose), but I hadn't invested time, expectations, return postage, etc. And frankly, unless you're looking to hear a difference, I'm hard pressed to imagine that you'll hear a difference through bi-wiring (assuming reasonable speakers, cables, amp, etc. in the first place).


By a similar token, I'm hard pressed to imagine that anyone with a pulse cannot hear the difference that replacing a passive xover with an active one can make (when the xovers are appropriate for the speaker).


Claude
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by KeithR
My personal opinion, is that if a company would design the crossover correctly, it would eliminate the need. Hence, why Dynaudio, JM Labs, Audio Physic, Wilson, etc. don't have dual binding posts.
Sorry to break the news but all of the speakers you mentioned above, especially their top of the line models, can be bi-wired and have multiple binding posts.
 
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