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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

As I was doing my research on which sub to buy (and still sort of am...going to try the DIY route but this may take awhile, and I probably want to get something in the meantime) I noticed that:

1) There aren't a ton of down firing subs on the market
2) Everyone here loves the BIC F12 and yet I don't hear anything about the BIC V1020, although they have practically identical specs:

BIC F12
12" woofer
150 W RMS
Freq response down to 25 Hz

BIC V1020
10" woofer
150 W RMS
Freq response down to 26 Hz

The reason this came to my attention is that the V1020 is $260 CDN and the F12 is $380.

If they perform the same, why the price difference? Are front firing subs better in general? Or are they just in greater demand because they look cooler and people prefer them?

I have to admit if I could get the F12 for the same price I probably would, because I like the look better....but are there other reasons I am not aware of?

Look forward to your thoughts,

C
 

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Down firing in general works better than forward firing, but since the average consumer thinks that if you don't see the cone you won't hear what it's playing they aren't all that popular.
 

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IIRC, down-firing reduces/eliminates above-bandwidth harmonics. You get an objectively cleaner response, but you lose the subjectively pleasing harmonics that can make the sub sound better or fuller.


I've had front-firing and I currently have down-firing and I've been generally quite happy with both types.


Re. the BIC subs: If I were to pick a "V"-series sub over the F12, I'd go with the V1220.
 

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Hi,

As I was doing my research on which sub to buy (and still sort of am...going to try the DIY route but this may take awhile, and I probably want to get something in the meantime) I noticed that:

1) There aren't a ton of down firing subs on the market
2) Everyone here loves the BIC F12 and yet I don't hear anything about the BIC V1020, although they have practically identical specs:

BIC F12
12" woofer
150 W RMS
Freq response down to 25 Hz

BIC V1020
10" woofer
150 W RMS
Freq response down to 26 Hz

The reason this came to my attention is that the V1020 is $260 CDN and the F12 is $380.

If they perform the same, why the price difference? Are front firing subs better in general? Or are they just in greater demand because they look cooler and people prefer them?

I have to admit if I could get the F12 for the same price I probably would, because I like the look better....but are there other reasons I am not aware of?

Look forward to your thoughts,

C
I found the F-12 for CAD ~304 + shipping, taxes, EHF:

http://www.hookbag.ca/product/H3C0CQEBI?ref=shopbot.ca&p=1164

Sometimes, the Hookbag promo/coupon codes can work:

http://www.retailmenot.ca/coupons/hookbag.ca

http://www.bargainmoose.ca/coupons/hookbag.ca

Caveat: Hookbag prices are volatile.

Also: Kijiji alerts can work well, too.
 

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Hi,

As I was doing my research on which sub to buy (and still sort of am...going to try the DIY route but this may take awhile, and I probably want to get something in the meantime) I noticed that:

1) There aren't a ton of down firing subs on the market
2) Everyone here loves the BIC F12 and yet I don't hear anything about the BIC V1020, although they have practically identical specs:

BIC F12
12" woofer
150 W RMS
Freq response down to 25 Hz

BIC V1020
10" woofer
150 W RMS
Freq response down to 26 Hz

The reason this came to my attention is that the V1020 is $260 CDN and the F12 is $380.

If they perform the same, why the price difference? Are front firing subs better in general? Or are they just in greater demand because they look cooler and people prefer them?

I have to admit if I could get the F12 for the same price I probably would, because I like the look better....but are there other reasons I am not aware of?

Look forward to your thoughts,

C
You're comparing a 10" to a 12". 10" are generally not enough to make anyone happy around here, as the displacement is meager at best in most cases.
 

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Love my BIC V-1220 and have had it for several years now. I would take an F12 over the V-1020 however just for the size of the driver if nothing else.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
There's a lot more to a subwoofer than those few things you're comparing.
Well, yes. But I am new to this, and 90% of the discussions on this forum seem to revolve around those three things when people are comparing subs.
@Dom Di Stroia: Nice!! I haven't heard of this site before. I'll have to check it out.


Yeah, it seems to be consumer preference I guess. It's funny because I am the same way, and I don't have a reason for it. I guess asthetics go further than we want to admit. Or at least, than I want to admit.
@Robert2011: That's good to hear. I've heard mostly good things about this sub, but also that it has a pretty long break in time. Did you find that to be the case as well? I've read a lot of reviews where people say not to judge it until you've given it at least 40 hours playing time.
 

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@Robert2011: That's good to hear. I've heard mostly good things about this sub, but also that it has a pretty long break in time. Did you find that to be the case as well? I've read a lot of reviews where people say not to judge it until you've given it at least 40 hours playing time.
People get excited about this concerning the V-1220, but I have to say I didn't notice the "break-in" period. It's a ported down firing sub, and articles I've read with measurement statistics show that it's more fiction than fact.
 

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I had both the V1020 and V1220, and if people think break in periods are fiction, fine with me. It took several weeks for the V1220 to begin to perform to its capabilities, and a good week or more for the V1020. YMMV.

Both subs are decent for the price (in the U.S., not Canada) and will usually lead one to buy a better sub down the road.
 

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90% of the discussions on this forum seem to revolve around those three things when people are comparing subs.
Because 90% of people have no idea of the relevant parameters that determine actual sub performance.
 

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I am about to go from a Definitive 1500TL+ 15 inch front facing to a Wharfedale PC DX12 down firing sub and, so far, it sounds (rumbles) just about the same. The upside of the DX12 is that it's a lot smaller and made of wood, unlike the 1500 which is surrounded in cloth, which the cats can't (easily) scratch.

As long as it rumbles, and shakes Pooh off the shelf, what difference does it make?

Seggers
 

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Well, yes. But I am new to this, and 90% of the discussions on this forum seem to revolve around those three things when people are comparing subs.
@Dom Di Stroia: Nice!! I haven't heard of this site before. I'll have to check it out.


Yeah, it seems to be consumer preference I guess. It's funny because I am the same way, and I don't have a reason for it. I guess asthetics go further than we want to admit. Or at least, than I want to admit.
@Robert2011: That's good to hear. I've heard mostly good things about this sub, but also that it has a pretty long break in time. Did you find that to be the case as well? I've read a lot of reviews where people say not to judge it until you've given it at least 40 hours playing time.

Thanks.

And Hookbag also has the V1020 for CAD ~230 delivered + taxes/EHF:

http://www.hookbag.ca/product/H3C06TWY5?ref=shopbot.ca&p=1164

BTW: Hookbag often imports to order, and employs transborder consolidation, so expect the lead time to be in the 2-week range, possibly longer to western Canada. (Shipments are landed to ~Nepean, Ontario.)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
.

Because 90% of people have no idea of the relevant parameters that determine actual sub performance.
So what else should I be looking at when comparing subwoofers? A question to benefit all the new people out there.

@seggers: You said it. I don't care if I can see the woofer or not. As long as it gives me the performance I want, I am happy.

@Dom Di Stroia: You are a hero haha. I just ordered the F12 for $300 and one of the coupons worked for $25 off. Awesome. Thank you. This will tide me over nicely until my DIY project is completed :)
 

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If you take a front-firing subwoofer box and turn it over so that it faces the floor (spaced/shimmed two inches off the floor), the Fr will decrease.
 

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If you take a front-firing subwoofer box and turn it over so that it faces the floor (spaced/shimmed two inches off the floor), the Fr will decrease.
It will introduce bandpass loading, but the main effect of that will be to lower the high frequency response limit. The low frequency limit may go lower as well, but it may not.
 
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There used to be more down firing subs

The one issue I can see is sagging of the suspension from the cone weight after awhile. The main reason IMHO is downfiring cost more to make and is slightly larger due to the legs required. Every cent counts and size is a huge issue with many people.

I use front firing with passive radiators and push-pull slot loaded subs which are not exactly common either. PRs cost more than a tube and slot loading makes the sub larger/heavier and "weird looking". Since most of the subwoofers I see at the stores are ported or sealed single driver boxes--I'd say cost/size would be a good reason.
 

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380 Canadian is about $300 U.S. Why is anyone paying that amount for a Bic F12? I paid $400 for a pair of them years ago.


I like front firing subs simply because they look so much better than down firing subs. Their designs are better...simple as that.
 

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So what else should I be looking at when comparing subwoofers? A question to benefit all the new people out there.

@seggers: You said it. I don't care if I can see the woofer or not. As long as it gives me the performance I want, I am happy.

@Dom Di Stroia: You are a hero haha. I just ordered the F12 for $300 and one of the coupons worked for $25 off. Awesome. Thank you. This will tide me over nicely until my DIY project is completed :)
+1

And if you paid HST at 13%, that 25-dollar promo/coupon code was effectively worth CAD 28.25.

(Soon, I'll be promoting my new video game: Coupon Hero) :devil:
 
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