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Biased (but nice)
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Your wall is gray. It’s all relative. If your wall was painting with Vantablack you’d have issues, but not with commercial black paint.

Trust me, black paint reflects light, you just need to run the lights brighter to get reference levels off the wall. I use a black fabric scrim behind my laptop in the lab next to my integrating sphere even though the wall behind it is painted with Munsil N8. I use N8 because my kids also use the room for ping pong, and I didn’t want it too dark. :). I use the scrim to lessen the reflections to the rest of the room because N8 is pretty light.

Thanks. My wall is black. No bias lighting for me.
 

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Biased (but nice)
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Yes, I need to update that tomorrow morning as we fully transitioned to that strip PCB, but we’re also launching new Medialight v2 and MediaLight LX1 series (budget series at roughly half the price but with the same CRI of 98 and SPD that is coming to the new MediaLights) lights soon and they look a bit different.

I can post photos if you want to see what those strips look like as well as outline the changes coming to the entire medialight range, if you want.

The first pic is from their website. The second pic is my strip. They're very different.[/QUOTE]
 

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................... even though the wall behind it is painted with Munsil N8. I use N8 because my kids also use the room for ping pong, and I didn’t want it too dark. :). I use the scrim to lessen the reflections to the rest of the room because N8 is pretty light.

What is preferred? N5?
 

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What is preferred? N5?
Professional post-production color correction and VFX suites usually recommend a matte N5 all around. That's in the middle of the Munsell range of neutral grays and comparable to an 18% reflectance photo gray card. That makes for a fairly dark room but helps minimize screen reflections and aids rapid color adaptation, which can take a recommended half-hour, more or less on average. There are other light sources in the room from additional computer monitors, task lights, LED indicator lights on electronics, etc.







https://www.facebook.com/theColourSpace/videos/1987463904867437/
 

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I've always had a fascination with bias lighting, but circumstances and overwhelming choice meant I didn't do anything about it.


Now that we have a 65 inch Sony AF9 and the kids a I like to watch in a darker room, it has become a problem for my wife who struggles to see clearly when the lights are out. We've been dimming the downlights in the room, but it's not quite what we want. I put a couple of little torches behind the TV to see if it would help and she said it did, so I've done my research and decided on MediaLight, but need some advice on the right option for the room setup.


The TV is on a wall mount and sits about 23cm from the wall. - Pic attached "TV distance to wall"

There are 2 big windows either side of the TV.
From the side edges of the TV, there is 5cm to the window frame, which is about 7cm wide.
Window frame is white (slightly glossy) and wall behind the TV and blinds are a slight creamy off white. - Pic attached "Wall Colour" (the cornice is white, so you can see the wall is creamier)

Couch is about 3.5m from the TV.
From centre seat, you can't see any wall on sides of TV, just window frame and blinds (due to distance TV is out from the wall) - Pic attached "Centre View"

From the end seats, you can see the 7cm windows frame, plus about 7cm of wall on one side and no wall or window frame on the other side, just blind. - Pics attached "Left View" and "Right View"
The Sony A9F stand folds for wall mounting and cables hang down the bottom middle. - Pic attached "TV rear bottom"
Below the TV is a cabinet with a shiny black glass top.
TV is not calibrated, but has been adjusted with recommended settings.



There are a number of options from MediaLight that seem appropriate, but I would like to know whether there will be more benefit or issues trying to put lights all around the TV:


Will lights on the side work, or will the closeness of the windows create a distraction?
Will lights on the bottom work or will the cables and bump on the middle bottom create shadows? Or will the glass top of the cabinet be a problem?


I could go with the Quad or Flex to go all the way around the TV, but don't want to waste money if it won't work on the sides/bottom.


Is a Single across the top a better option? If so, does this produce a good enough bias lighting effect to be worthwhile?



I'm not really in a hurry and I see a new range is coming out in June, but would like to make a decision on what style product to get before then.


Any advice is appreciated.


Thanks
Ben
 

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** Man of Leisure **
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Given the closeness of the side windows, it is hard to predict how the bias lighting will look in the sides. I have strips on three sides—top and left and right sides. I don’t like lighting on the bottom because there are shadows from cables. The MediaLight solution is a very good one, and I think you will be pleased.
 
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With a wood wall behind our 65" LCD I'm wondering

(1) if bias lighting will work well enough?
(2) and whether a single, tri, or quad string sets would be best? I'm thinking a single strip would be the ticket here.


Here's the setup. The screen bottom is 24" from the wall and the top 28" which is different from any other queries I found in this thread. It is canted down to both eliminate any possible glare from the big window about 30 feet directly from the front of the screen although the blinds are invariable closed, and to present the screen flat to the viewing position. We also watch with the room dark or the overhead floods dimmed to very low.



And the stand the TV is on






Appreciate any counsel, advice, or wisdom. :D
 

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** Man of Leisure **
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In my opinion, bias lighting works best with a painted wall. Hard to say how well it will work with the wood background. I use strips on three sides of the display, and not on the bottom. The bias lighting solution is not that expensive, so risk is low if you want to give it a try.
 

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In my opinion, bias lighting works best with a painted wall. Hard to say how well it will work with the wood background. .

Yeah the wood paneling and distance the screen is from the wall are concerns which is why I'm looking for more input here.

Also my 65 incher's USB 2.0 port is only rated at 5v 500ma and I'm seeing a LOT of bias lighting requires 5v 1A which would necessitate adding a USB extension cable and a USB AC wall wart 5V 1A adapter. :(
 

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Yeah the wood paneling and distance the screen is from the wall are concerns which is why I'm looking for more input here.

Also my 65 incher's USB 2.0 port is only rated at 5v 500ma and I'm seeing a LOT of bias lighting requires 5v 1A which would necessitate adding a USB extension cable and a USB AC wall wart 5V 1A adapter. :(
The MediaLight solution includes the USB/120v adapter.

Honestly, I don't think the wood paneling will provide a good solution.
 

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Found the psuedo bias lighting the single floodlamp gave me to be a welcome addition. No, not 6500K obviously against the dark wood paneling. But it did seem to enhance the colors and contrast in "popping" for me. May be a placebo, but....

So I'm looking at an inexpensive white LED USB 2.0 5V 500ma powered string to install. :) My TV won't handle a 5V 1A USB load.
 

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bob can you post an actual link to what you purchased.
 

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bob can you post an actual link to what you purchased.

Forum PM sent. :)


For clarification, the pictures I've been posting are with the single CFL flood lamp as I don't have any bias LED string set on hand yet.


And another shot showing the CFL lamp impact during the day with the big window blinds closed. Image is from a program fed from my computer via an HDMI cable. This particular video has a significant black border.
 

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Biased (but nice)
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I received an email about a post here and I apologize for the delay in posting here. I hope, too, that everyone is healthy and safe.

Installing bias lighting on a display in front of non-neutral paint colors, different colors and different levels of glossiness can be a challenge. When possible, we should aim for neutral paint and even surfaces, but we also need to work with what we have.

As a rule I recommend a surface with a low specular/regular reflection (matte with GU ≤ 10). One thing that is really going to ruin bias lighting is any kind of glossy surface.

Why?

If I bounce D65 light off of a matte red wall with low specular reflectance, the reflected light is still extremely close to D65.
If I bounce D65 light off a glossy red wall (or, worse still, think of metallic, rose-colored mirror), the reflected light is far off from D65.

You can have a brown wall, or blue wall and still end up with D65 ambient light. I've tried it in many environments.

Windows are going to be a problem if they are not completely covered. But you know that.

Would I color grade a movie in front of a brown stained wood paneled wall? No.
Would I watch a movie in front of it? Yes. When I watch movies in my family room, my upstairs TV is mounted on a brick fireplace. The ambient light in the room still measures respectably on my spectro.

Too often, we say "my wall is blue, so neutral bias lights won't help," but when we are viewing from a sofa, the ambient light of the room is as important, or more important than the color behind the TV.

Contrast this with a professional colorist. When we are doing color-critical work on a computer monitor, we are generally up against a wall and the ambient light in the room around us is not as important as the light and surface color directly behind the display.

So, with any of these setups, bias lighting can work. I can't answer, though, whether the result would be acceptable to you.

In June, we'll be releasing the MediaLight Mk2 series, and if you can wait until then, I'd recommend it. First of all, the CRI is getting a boost to 98 Ra. The new chip is more efficient and can run longer lengths without obvious voltage drop (I say "obvious" because voltage drop exists in all light strips). The Quad and Quad XL are star circuits to avoid voltage drop. With the new chip, we can just run them in sequence. All of them can be run horizontally, as with our single strip, or around the corners for 3 or 4 sides of coverage. Our new Eclipse will cover 3 sides on a 24-30" monitor on an articulating arm, for example.

The new line comprises:

MediaLight Mk2 Eclipse 1 meter (~39 inches) Up from .61m (for monitors - no remote included, only an inline dimmer)
MediaLight Mk2 Flex 2m (~79 inches) up from 1.4m (remote dimmer included)
MediaLight Mk2 Flex 3m (~118 inches) A new size option that will cover 3 sides up to 65-70" (depending on how close you are to the edge) and 4 sides up to 45"(remote dimmer included)
MediaLight Mk2 Flex 4m (~157 inches) Same size as our current Flex. 3 sides up to 85" and 4 sides up to 60" (remote dimmer included)
MediaLight Mk2 Flex 5m (~196 inches) Replaces the Quad. 4 sides up to 75". (remote dimmer included)
MediaLight Mk2 Flex 6m (~136 inches) Replaces the Quad XL. 4 sides up to 90" (remote dimmer included)

Need larger? wait until the 12v Mk2 Mega in July. You can daisy chain up to 49 feet of it.

Also coming in June:

MediaLight Mk2 Bulb: 800 lumens, color-shift free, instant-warmup dimmable 6500K CRI 98 bulb. Use your existing dimmable lamp to illuminate your TV viewing room with proper simulated D65 light. You can turn your Ikea lamp into an accurate simulated-D65 light source. SRP is $40. Bundles will be available as well as discounts. This is not your grandfather's lightbulb. It was made with 32 Mk2 chips inside instead of the usual COB design of most bulbs. Sandblasted neutral density dome and aluminum heat sink. Optimized for Lutron dimmers but works with most (YMMV with some brands of dimmers, in particular, at lower brightness levels, some dimmers might drop suddenly, while Lutron will dim smoothly down to 5%). We chose Lutron for the USA because it's popular, affordable and dependable.

Ideal Lume by MediaLight Desk lamp for professional colorists and others in need of a high CRI, 6500K task lamp. Approx 300lm I'm really excited about this one, as it's a joint-product with a friend and mentor, and sometimes-competitor :D, @GeorgeAB.

All of the products use the same SMD chips for identical SPD. It's pretty slick, especially for those who want to have everything matching absolutely perfectly.

The main thing that is changing from original plans is that we're not making the LX1 budget line this year-- or possibly ever. Launching a whole newer, lower-end brand in this economic/global health environment is more than I feel comfortable doing. Instead, we're holding the line on prices, adding more size options to the MediaLight Mk2 line (such as the 3m strip which is a sweet spot since a lot of people buying the Flex now are using it on 65" displays but only covering 3 sides due to a soundbar or center channel speaker). The LX1 was going to use far fewer chips and omit the remote to better compete with the Lumadoodles of the world, which also charge extra for such must-haves, but I had a realization:

We'll never beat them on price when our new chips costs about 30x more.

Instead, we'll focus on continuing to put the best components that we can make or buy into them. Anybody who cares about home cinema knows that lowest price and best value are not often synonymous or we'd have no customers.

But, to sum it up, our per-meter cost is the same or lower for the MK2 line as it was for the generation 1 MediaLight. Some prices might increase slightly, if we use more LEDs to make it (longer strips) or include things that were not included (I.e. extension cord and adapter for the Flex). However, on a per meter basis, the prices are not increasing. And we can offer units without remotes or adapters for those who want pricing slightly closer to what the LX1 was going to offer, as one of the ways that we cut the price was by omitting everything that certain competitors don't offer and making them available as upsells.

All of the Mk2 units have only about 18" of wiring, but there is an included 4ft DC extension, a USB switch and an AC adapter, so you can place the dimmer either on the display or closer to the power source/adapter. All of the strips are the S-shaped type, so they can be installed straight or can easily turn corners. Turning corners wasn't necessary with the Quads because there were 4 strips.


Sorry for typos. About to binge watch Schitt's Creek for a few hours. I'm fried. :D I've been packing all orders, including Amazon, in my garage since the lockdown began. Stay safe!
 

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You can have a brown wall, or blue wall and still end up with D65 ambient light. I've tried it in many environments.

Would I color grade a movie in front of a brown stained wood paneled wall? No.
Would I watch a movie in front of it?
Yes.

When I watch movies in my family room, my upstairs TV is mounted on a brick fireplace. The ambient light in the room still measures respectably on my spectro.

Thanks! This confirms that my efforts are not in vain. :)


Your soon to be released MediaLight MK2 Flex series sounds great. And yes, the 3M is a sweet spot for many of us who own 65" screens. :) And with only a 500ma max draw, USB 2.0 ports won't be overtaxed or unable to support the Flex strings.


BTW I'm not the one who emailed you. :D
 

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Biased (but nice)
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I missed that last bit, Bob.

We tested a strip up to 6m that ran off 500mA. I had to make the difficult decision of not bringing it to market. Was it bright enough? Yes, probably in 95% of the cases.

It was great!

However, I knew immediately that we’d have tons of returns when people compare brightness to other lights. People can’t verify CRI without a spectrophotometer, but they can see (with some serious perceptual caveats and limitations ) color temperature and brightness. People would say “this isn’t as bright. It’s crap.” Never mind that they’d still be dimming it down to about 40% for reference levels.

Instead, we optimized the strips to run on approximately 950mA. All of the units, except for the eclipse include a USA adapter and 4ft DC extension. Shorter strips will run on 500mA, but anything over 2m and it’s going to be above that limit.

However, there’s a method to the madness. You can just dim the lights halfway with the included adapter and you’d be below the 500mA. Basically anything running below 50% in most cases, which is bright enough for reference levels.

You can just be sure to run the lights with a dimmer and keep the total power draw below 2.5w. So, you can run a longer length, but once the brightness goes over a certain brightness (and it will vary by TV) the lights might start to flicker, indicating insufficient power.

Bias lighting powered by 5v USB has a trade off - it’s never going to be more 350 lm. The long strips just distribute the light around larger edges. It’s not brighter. In fact, each LED on a strip is dimmer as you add more.

So, our Flex 6m with 180 LEDs will have a maximum brightness of about 350lm, but our light bulb has a maximum brightness of 800lm and it runs on 32 LEDs.

That’s also partly why the MediaLight LED strips last so long. They are not being driven too hard. The bulb will “only” have a 3 year warranty (good for a bulb), but the strips are still warrantied for 5 years.



Thanks! This confirms that my efforts are not in vain. :)


Your soon to be released MediaLight MK2 Flex series sounds great. And yes, the 3M is a sweet spot for many of us who own 65" screens. :) And with only a 500ma max draw, USB 2.0 ports won't be overtaxed or unable to support the Flex strings.


BTW I'm not the one who emailed you. :D
 

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I received an email about a post here and I apologize for the delay in posting here. I hope, too, that everyone is healthy and safe.

I filled out the contact us form on your website telling you I'd posted here, so that may have been me.


From your recent post, I'm happy that the creamy colour of my wall won't be a big deal, but I would like your opinion on whether light strips on the sides and bottom would work, given the windows either side and the way the cables hang at the bottom and the glass topped cabinet.


Have a look at the pictures in my post and that should explain better than my post I think.


Thanks
Ben
 

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Biased (but nice)
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Sorry if I wasn’t clear. The window treatments would be ok if there is not too much light outside and if there were no direct reflections off the glass. It looks like they are wide enough to block all reflections.

I wouldn’t light the bottom of the TV. The shiny console surface is going to reflect a lot of light and you’ll probably have glare and shadows. For the same reason, I’d be careful running too far down the sides.

I think the upcoming 2m strip would be a good fit for this setup, and I’d consider installing as pictured in the attached picture. Far enough from the edges to avoid direct reflections off the console. However, you may need to move some tzotchkes, like the crystal horse if it starts to refract and reflect light!


I filled out the contact us form on your website telling you I'd posted here, so that may have been me.


From your recent post, I'm happy that the creamy colour of my wall won't be a big deal, but I would like your opinion on whether light strips on the sides and bottom would work, given the windows either side and the way the cables hang at the bottom and the glass topped cabinet.


Have a look at the pictures in my post and that should explain better than my post I think.


Thanks
Ben
 

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