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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Like Resident Evil 5 VS mode, Bioshock 2 DLC is already on the disc and sold as "DLC". Should be called "POC" for Paid Ondisc Contents.

http://www.gofanboy.com/go-fanboy-ne...y-on-the-disc/


When compared to DVD movies, it has become standard for single disc edition DVD movie to be barebone contents and 2/3-disc DVD edition has the rest of the contents.


When will game publishers start to strip the games to barebone contents and sell the rest of the contents on the disc as "DLC"?


As more gamers buy DLC, more reasons for game publishers to strip out the game contents to be sold as DLC on disc or download. This can further be done by limiting the character's health, weapons, armor, inventory slots or anything that the player needs to barebone. Anything that used to be standard in the past can now be sold as an "upgrade" DLC. Some of these already been done in certain games.


Soon, $60 gives you only barebone limited game contents. That is the solution for game publishers that have been saying they want to raise the game price.


My point is the more gamers buy DLC, the more game publishers will take contents out to be sold as DLC.
 

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It's idiotic to complain about this.


Game discs (and cartridges back in the day) are full of content that you don't have access to. You own the physical disc/cartridge, but you're only granted a limited license to use some of the content on that disc/cartridge. That's been the case for as long as video games have existed.


Would you all rather we didn't have access to that content at all? Because that's how it used to be. If the game doesn't seem worth $60 to you as is, then don't buy it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Then we will continue to see more and more contents locked up because game publishers know they can keep making more money out from us. The old days of able to unlock game contents with earned in-game points has become real money to unlock them.


By then, $60 means you get minimum possible contents out of the game.


That is how business strategy works by slowly making the contents less and less because gamers get used to pay more and more for them.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortex3D /forum/post/18307081


That is how business strategy works by slowly making the contents less and less because gamers get used to pay more and more for them.

Let me guess: you don't see anything weird about the fact that we're paying the same price for new games today that we were paying back in 1987? It isn't just publishers that are pushing for new revenue streams. Developers have an even bigger stake than publishers do in finding more ways to make money. Studios are closing left and right. Games are getting more and more expensive to make. Etc. Etc. It's not like 2K Marin released an incomplete game.


This culture of entitlement among gamers is ridiculous. Somehow we're "owed" everything for free.



I'm not someone who believes in "voting with your pocketbook," but I do believe in common sense. If you don't want to pay $60 for a game because of "blocked" content, then don't buy it. Simple. There's nothing sinister about this. The real target here is the resale market (i.e. Gamestop). It just shows how much DLC is a crucial part of the development process now. If you really want to make a difference, convince people to stop buying/trading at Gamestop.
 

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don't fully agree.


This "DLC" should have been released for free, perhaps with a voucher for original purchasers. To say "oh, we developed the game and will unlock parts of it for another $10" is just a slap in the face.


I'm all for DLC...but this isn't DLC in any sense of the word. This was ready on day one.


DLC should, IMO, be used and released FREE to original purchasers. That will take a big chunk out of the resale market. Of course, the resale market thrives as the publishers sill believe their product is worth $60 months after release.
 

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After being underwhelmed with the the ending to the game and the first DLC offering (MP only) I decided to sell my copy back while I could still get something for it; reading this makes me even happier than I did.


I don't mind when a developer uses existing assets to craft new quests (as was done with Oblivion and Fallout 3) but including stuff and locking it out is really shady. They could have at least offered it on a limited basis to encourage people to buy new and early (as EA has done with Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age: Origins).


Oh well, Take 2 won't be getting any more of my money when it comes to this game.
 

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This argument will never die, and it's interesting to see both sides. My personal opinion, if publishers have deliberately locked levels, characters, costumes, weapons etc on disk, perhaps there should be a disclaimer on the game case indicating that the disk contains various components that you're required to pay for to unlock, and let the consumer make an informed decision then. Because that $60 game becomes $65-$70-$75 or whatever after that. Example, Soul Caliber IV released info ahead of time that Yoda and Darth Vader were on the discs already, but you had to pay to unlock them. Hey, no prob thanks for the heads up. I can then decide whether I wish to buy the game with that knowledge in mind, that I'm going to either not pay for the extra characters, or be willing to pay IF i want them.


My thing with DLC, meaning content downloaded via Live or PSN , is that the content is intangible. Meaning, it only has worth as long as you have the game for it. If I decide to sell said game for which I bought the DLC, that DLC is now nothing more than worthless data sitting on my HDD, that I can't resell, or trade like I did with the physical game. Hence why I've personally never been a big fan of the whole DLC thing, and have largely responded by not buying it more than once or twice. I can't justify to myself investing in tons of DLC that, once I'm done with the game, can't be recouped in any way. Just my personal take on the whole thing. To each their own though, I'm not going to sit here and say it's either right or wrong, only that as a consumer I have the freedom to decide what I want to buy or not buy.


I have to believe that achievements/trophies were employed as an incentive system, to make up for the fact that we now pay for things that were once 'rewards' for beating the game.
 

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i'm just curious, when you guys go to purchase a new car from the dealer, do you expect the fully loaded version of the car to be the same price as the version with no options at all?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman /forum/post/18307204


Let me guess: you don't see anything weird about the fact that we're paying the same price for new games today that we were paying back in 1987? It isn't just publishers that are pushing for new revenue streams. Developers have an even bigger stake than publishers do in finding more ways to make money. Studios are closing left and right. Games are getting more and more expensive to make. Etc. Etc. It's not like 2K Marin released an incomplete game.


This culture of entitlement among gamers is ridiculous. Somehow we're "owed" everything for free.



I'm not someone who believes in "voting with your pocketbook," but I do believe in common sense. If you don't want to pay $60 for a game because of "blocked" content, then don't buy it. Simple. There's nothing sinister about this. The real target here is the resale market (i.e. Gamestop). It just shows how much DLC is a crucial part of the development process now. If you really want to make a difference, convince people to stop buying/trading at Gamestop.


We weren't paying $60 in '87. Game prices increased $10 when the recent systems came out. This is the reason I won't pay for games as soon as they come out, unless I find a deal that knocks that $10 off.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FIVE ONE SIX /forum/post/18310112


i'm just curious, when you guys go to purchase a new car from the dealer, do you expect the fully loaded version of the car to be the same price as the version with no options at all?

I'm not sure I get how your point applies here. You don't buy a car own it and then can unlock a sunroof or leather seating.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FIVE ONE SIX /forum/post/18310112


i'm just curious, when you guys go to purchase a new car from the dealer, do you expect the fully loaded version of the car to be the same price as the version with no options at all?

If memory serves, in prior generations when I paid $50 for the game, that was it. This whole 'pay to unlock features' is a recent home console phenomenon. Paying to unlock the multiplayer feature (resident evil 5). REALLY? I don't recall having to do that with the prior generations, or is my memory foggy?
 

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I think it's interesting that some here defend the practice and seem to be deliberately shifting the focus of the discussion away from what the real issue is here. Enough with the petty personal insults. We're not "entitled" we're just tired of being taken advantage of. You'll get it one day.


Anyway, the point made is that content sold as DLC is already on the disc. That means you're paying more for something that came shipped with the disc without it being advertised as such. It's not about "entitlement" or any other b.s.. It's the practice of charging for extra content to further the game to only find that the contents you paid for are already on the disc in the first place. How is that a good business practice? It's not like some assets used were already on the disc, that's normal. The entire contents of the DLC were already present. Heck they advertised the DLC way before the game even shipped for crying out loud, that should have set off alarm bells right there. If you're being made to pay extra for content already on the disc advertise it as such and let the consumer make an informed purchasing decision. This reeks of sneakiness and underhanded business tactics designed to prey on the desire of the game player to continue his or her game by any means necessary. In the end you're just paying for an unlock code, not the actual contents since they're already included in the retail version of the game you buy. Shame on 2K for doing this and shame on MS and Sony for allowing them.


I can say now that I understand what some were complaining about back in the day when it came to consoles with DLC. It wasn't really about extending the life of the game for the consumer for some companies, it was about milking every last dollar they could by releasing what is in effect either incomplete software or charging extra for contents already included on the disc. How some can be OK with this is beyond me.


Next thing you know someone's gonna say what Ubisoft is doing with AC2 on the PC is OK and justified.



edit

i'm just curious, when you guys go to purchase a new car from the dealer, do you expect the fully loaded version of the car to be the same price as the version with no options at all?


Really? That's your argument? This is nothing like that. What's happening here is that you go into the dealership to upgrade your car (let's just use a silly example like a sunroof). You wouldn't be happy to go into the dealership to purchase that part only to find out that all they did was remove the roof to expose the sunroof that had been sitting there all along. In essence all they did was "unlock" the sunroof". Wouldn't you feel like you've been taken advantage of?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 /forum/post/18310508


Enough with the petty personal insults. We're not "entitled" we're just tired of being taken advantage of. You'll get it one day.

Spend $60 on a game then get told you need to pay more to access the content already on the disc, and if you dare complain some studio sycophant can only come in with "you think you're entitled to everything for free." Fastest ignore I ever did on this site.


If every game is going to be distributed ala-carte via microtransactions then I'll just spend my life enjoying a couple decades worth of catalog titles that were released before this infectious gimmick started.
 

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You don't OWN the contents on the disc. You own the physical disc. The rest is licensed to you. Just like a DVD. You own the piece of plastic, not the film.


Point is, you pay extra for the license to access the other stuff on the disc.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobieck1 /forum/post/18310737


Point is, you pay extra for the license to access the other stuff on the disc.

No I don't, I take my money elsewhere until they stop pulling this crap or the company goes under.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osirus23 /forum/post/18310804


No I don't, I take my money elsewhere until they stop pulling this crap or the company goes under.

Exactly. You as the consumer, have a choice.


My point was just because we buy the discs, we don't own the content on it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 /forum/post/18310508


If you're being made to pay extra for content already on the disc advertise it as such and let the consumer make an informed purchasing decision.

. Yes, I made this point above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobieck1 /forum/post/18310737


You don't OWN the contents on the disc. You own the physical disc. The rest is licensed to you. Just like a DVD. You own the piece of plastic, not the film.


Point is, you pay extra for the license to access the other stuff on the disc.

A practice that has taken off this generation, with the advent of the online marketplace and microtransactions. But anyways, the argument is not the 'own' versus 'license' dynamic. It's purchasing something unaware that contents lie within that disc that you have to pay extra for, WITHOUT YOUR KNOWLEDGE. Put a simple sticker on the game saying 'this game contains payable locked content', and let the consumer decide if they want to purchase the game with that information in hand.


I don't want to buy a game, completely unaware of locked info inside the game, only to be told after the fact "oh by the way, if you want to unlock that horse armor on the disc, that'll be 500 points, thanks for your business!" I mean seriously, tell me this info beforehand, advertise it on the cover, and let me made an informed decision. This isn't about entitlement, or wanting something free. This is about, I'll repeat, give me the heads up that there is locked information on the disk, that I need to pay extra to unlock. This may or may not change my mind about whether to purchase. I don't think as a consumer, that's an unreasonable request.


I mean, what's next? You pay $60 for the game, then $5 for multiplayer, $5 for single player, $5 to access options? How far will this trend go?
 

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Would it make you guys feel better if they'd have removed the content from the disc and then just make you download it?


My only issue with things like this is if the content was originally supposed to be part of the game, but then was locked down in order to make it DLC. I didn't see anywhere the mentioned this is the case (correct me if I'm wrong)


If it was intended as DLC all along, it makes no difference to me if it's on the disc of if I have to download it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobieck1 /forum/post/18310823



My point was just because we buy the discs, we don't own the content on it.

And having said that, we as consumers should know exactly what our $60 is getting us. Before I plunk down the cash, I'd like to know that there is locked content on the disc that I'll have to pay to unlock. Should I still decide to buy anyway, that's on me. But at least give me that knowledge before I buy. I don't want to find out after the fact that half the damn game is locked away.
 
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