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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Finally, after a TON of agony, trying to decide how best to set up the screen/projector, and which screen to use, in my 32x23x13 ft buff colored game room, I pulled the trigger and bought the Horizon Electrol HP drop-down 116x65 constant width dual masking screen and a JVC RS20.


The big issue was projector placement and whether I could use the HP fabric or not. Given the 32 ft throw distance of the room, if placed in the back the PJ would have required a Navitar tele extender and would have lost lumens b/c of being at max tele. And likely would have needed a standard screen surface vs the HP as the Black Diamond retractable, perhaps the only reasonable competitor at this point, is not out yet. And these screens might have had a greater tendency to show wrinkles, which I could not tolerate.


After running through the alternative PJ placements, including dropdown (would interfere with line of sight from back of room) pop-up (a credenza behind the couch would interfere with the pool table just to the right and behind) I finally convinced the wife to let me put the PJ on a rolling stand centered behind the couch. The PJ is just above head level and is essentially silent. It hooks up to a power/audio/HDMI/component "umbilicus" which is otherwise hidden under the couch. Not ideal, but lets me clear out the PJ when the ladies are having tea.


Anyway, fired it up for the first time last night. In a work it rocks. We watched "Batman Begins" on BR. What an immersive experience. I had a G15 before this on a Stewart GreyHawk 0.9 gain screen, 134x69 with an ISCO anamorphic lens and never had the sense of looking through a window into a 3-d world to the extent this system does. The new system just blows the old one away. The screen has tremenous pop, even off center, and there is not a bad seat. The couches are arranged in a "U", and the side couches do have falloff a bit, but it is best described as less pop but still definitely watchable. In summary, it is truly a huge plasma screen.


Even though the room has very light walls, the distance of the ceiling, walls and rear wall from the screen seems to minimize the reflections. The dark scenes have great contrast and the bright ones look fine.


Many many thanks to Tryg for his excellent screen review threads and the time he has taken to expound on the virtues of the HP. I would NEVER have considered a retroreflective screen nor waited until I figured out how to make it work had I not had his initial contributions AND the personal experiences of the other HP owners --thank you all-- to convince me it was the right choice--I bought this screen sight unseen, based entirely on these recommendations, and am so happy I did. When I get a moment I'll take some photos and post them.


Thanks again everyone.
 

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Sony A90J panel; Marantz SR7015 AVR; Paradigm Signature speakers; Oppo 203 and Panasonic 820 UHD BR.
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WOW ! Congratulations to you. I'm planning a Hi-Power, only a 100"-106" diag. (16:9) and most-likely the RS-20 (though reports sound a little "scarey" on the RS-20).

Question: Do you find the "black level" to your satisfaction?

We will look forward to some pics of your set-up !
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I gotta tell you I can't believe how good it is. I don't know why the RS 20 would be a bad match for this screen; it is eye-popping.


BTW I specifically looked for sheen, texture hot spotting etc and could see none.


Here are a couple of pics. Probably the screen is set a bit high, but 60" is the longest drop I could get from Da-Lite. It's hard to get the perspective quite right, but this is in the scope setting, 2.35:1, 116" wide and about 50" high. The bottom of the screen is about 37" off the floor. When the lights are off and the PJ on, the back wall is completely blacked out.

 

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This will be my first PJ so i hope the expert here could help me make an intelligent decision. the screen will be in a living room with a wall of 10ft high and 115 inch wide. The sony vpl-vw100 will be ceiling mount(with extension columns) back at 17ft to 18ft. I don't want to go anymore back b/c the pj will need 4 ft to 5ft to vent...

I'm thinking of going with Hp, SS or BW screen with the masquerade masking system. If i was going with the hp screen...then should i buy the Cinema Contour, Da-Snap, Perm-Wall. But I like the ideal of buying all the product from 1 company b/c it will fix together perfectly. that why i was considering the BW but the gain is too low for that throw distance. I was thing that the screen size might be 60"X107" (2.35:1) Thanks in advance. sorry for your trouble.



keith
 

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A lot of us getting into front projection discover, to our surprise, that choosing the projector is the easy part compared to choosing a screen and all the neurosis that goes with it.


Whoda thunk?


Congrats on being able to make a decision!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Like any big decision, there is definitely more than a little OCD for some of us! But, can you imagine spending the money and winding up with something you didn't like? I started in my old HT with a JVC G11, which was just simply underpowered for the screen size I had--replaced with the G15; much better but not like this. Got a B+K Ref 20 and Outlaw amp to go with my Aerial Acoustic speakers--not good enough. So went with a Lex and EAD 8300.


In both cases, a combo of being a bit on the cheap side and not appreciating that there are some major differences in products forced me into an early upgrade path--more hassle, more expense, but I guess that's how we learn.


In this case, I looked to the experts--you guys--and, while it took me forever to decide and finally seemed like a roll of the dice, you guys were RIGHT. And instead of going with the RS10, perfectly good, I went for the RS20--too many hassles with the G15 for me to go thru the calibration agony again.


Another point re this screen, if you look at the couches in the pic, the head position on the side ones is at least 60 inches or more off center line. FlaBoy's screen calc predicts a 1.01 gain at that point. Well, my 16 y/o daughter, who considers herself an artist and is attuned to colors etc etc, sits on one of the side couches and my wife sits on the other. And you know what--they both consider the screen "Fabulous!"


So how do you like that as proof for the assertion that I took on faith from everyone here--while the gain is great on center, don't worry about the sides--they take care of themselves. Just don't tell them that the numbers say they should be seeing a crummy picture, cuz it ain't so. And you get to sit in the center and enjoy it all!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ham /forum/post/15449568


Just don't tell them that the numbers say they should be seeing a crummy picture, cuz it ain't so. And you get to sit in the center and enjoy it all!

Ah, but the numbers don't say that--only dimmer, and the human eye/brain is amazingly good at compensating for differences in brightness.
 

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I'm glad you love your screen/projector combo ham.


Luckily for me I didn't go strictly with the advice of many HP owners and tested one myself. My findings were quite different from yours and so I'm looking at using a different screen instead.


(FLBoy...I've found, unfortunately, the eye/brain, at least mine, isn't good enough to compensate for the off-axis performance).


As far as off-axis viewing I'd say in general guests just aren't as experienced and critical as us typical AVSers. Judging off-axis performance by whether a non-AVSer is happy I think will typically get a "thumbs up" from the guest. After all, guests were wowed by an old Panasonic 720p projector when I had it projecting on a yellow wall.

Most of the time guests or other family members don't know (or often care that much) what they may be missing performance-wise.


It's we videophile/Home Theater types who are driving the performance of the systems. I think the off-axis issue is more for the mind-set of the person who owns the set up, who wants everyone to experience the same quality of image. The same way I know my guests would be quite satisfied with a lesser performing system, but I want a better system than my guests would settle for.


When I discuss the HP screen I point out why it doesn't work so well, ultimately, for me.

But I also like to point out the fact that most people who buy one are very happy and few people have major issues with the screen. Ham is another example of a happy customer, which is great!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrym303 /forum/post/15450768



The cone is barely perceptible and an absolute non-issue.

See...I'm sure you feel that way of course, but it's comments like that which

made me think the HP could work for me too. Yet I found the cone incredibly perceptible and annoying. Pretty much the most perceptible viewing cone I've ever seen on any type of display. Which is why seeing for yourself is always best, when possible.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness /forum/post/15451030


See...I'm sure you feel that way of course, but it's comments like that which

made me think the HP could work for me too. Yet I found the cone incredibly perceptible and annoying. Pretty much the most perceptible viewing cone I've ever seen on any type of display. Which is why seeing for yourself is always best, when possible.

Complete non-issue for me. I have seen probably 50 posts of yours stating your opinion on this. Thank goodness I looked past them.


Now, the viewing angle had a dramatic effect on the Sony RPTV I just sold.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrym303 /forum/post/15451476



Now, the viewing angle had a dramatic effect on the Sony RPTV I just sold.

Outstanding !
I love it !


Rich, I think he is disputing your input
...you HAVE taken several shots at HP (even though I have also seen you defend HP at times.) Rich, that makes you an "equal opportunity reviewer."


You do seem sort of obligated to remind people of the "cone."
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLBoy /forum/post/15449839


Ah, but the numbers don't say that--only dimmer, and the human eye/brain is amazingly good at compensating for differences in brightness.

You are right, of course, but as a newbie to the HP, the criticisms I read made me seriously doubt if it would work off axis with any quality at all. I mean, I was concerned about sitting on the side of the primary couch based on all the stuff I read.


Well, that's where I sit, 33 inches to the right and 10 inches below the lens, not at full gain at all, and the pic is overwhelmingly good.


The viewing cone, as JerryM suggests, is nowhere near the cone effect of an older RPTV, where the screen essentially goes blank as you move out. And, since the screen is on the long axis of the room, it will be great for sports parties, where most folks will be standing around in the back, close to a sweet spot.


BTW did I mention light rejection?
 

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Congrats on the screen. And what a great room!!


I am one of the biggest HP boosters around here, but I agree with Rich about the cone. It makes the HP not the best choice for some people. With my dim Sharp 20000, I need the extra brightness the HP gives, but I have to be solidly in the cone for it to deliver the picture I want. I can see the difference if I shift my head a few inches, much less a couple of feet.


That said, if you have a brighter projector, the cone is not nearly as much of an issue. Nor is it an issue if, as in my setup, 95+% of the viewing is done by people who are pretty much in the sweet spot anyway. For those rare occasions when I need extra brightness, I open the iris or go from eco to high lamp mode (never had to do both at the same time, even with the Sharp).


That said, it makes a good choice even for people not concerned about high brightness. It just looks so good, and by that I mean it simply disappears when the show starts. The only time it called attention to itself for me was when I squashed a mosquito on it, or when I sweated on it putting it together. After I cleaned off the sweat and mosquito wings, it did its disappearing act.


Actually, you're setup looks like a terrific way to make the most of the HP. If you want the greatest gain, you can sit right in front of your projector on the couch. If you want it a little dimmer during those early days of a bright lamp, move to the side. Perfect.


If you are anything like most of us HP owners, you will never tire of this screen. I get upgraditis as much as anyone around here, but it's hard to imagine wanting to change this screen.
 

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I also love how you left your camera on a tripod for the before and after shots. You may have helped a few guys around here who are trying to convince their wives that a home theater system doesn't have to "destroy" a room.


Try it. Put up both pictures in tabs in the browser, then call in the wife. Say, "Watch, honey. We could do this." Then just click back and forth. It's a magic disappearing home theater!
 

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I was thinking of buying a smx 4 way masking but they stop production on that.
So i think i will "bit the bullet" and get the HP screen...117.50 Diagonal perm wall with the Carada Masking system. I getting the screen a little bigger b/c i want to make sure that i don't see the perm-wall frame when i do the making. so i will have a viewing of 114 Diagonal. I hope i doing the right thing. i hate to upgrade in 3 months.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ham /forum/post/15426518



Here are a couple of pics. Probably the screen is set a bit high, but 60" is the longest drop I could get from Da-Lite. .

do you have a problem at all with the height, If you could have it perfect, where would your screen height be. How close do you sit to the screen?

Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
First let me qualify this by saying that I am not an expert. However, it is my understanding that in a perfect world the center of the screen should be 1/3 below eye level and 2/3 above. At 2.35 my screen is probably at 1/4 or 1/5 below eye level. I was concerned that this would be a problem, but in fact it doesn't make any difference.


Also remember that my ceiling is 13 ft high, and unless you have a really high ceiling, it is unlikely that screen centering will be an issue.


Re distance, I think I'm about 14 ft from the screen. The PJ is mounted on a moveable cart which sits just behind the couch. It is an RS20, as I noted earlier, and is a great PJ, very silent and very bright with great black levels/contrast.


After having had this da-lite HP screen for six months, please let me reiterate that it is simply and utterly fabulous. I even had to sit on one of the side couches the other day -- the pic was more than acceptable. Get one if you are in the market, and pair it with a good PJ mounted not too far away. You won't be disappointed.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by keithishere /forum/post/15443037


This will be my first PJ so i hope the expert here could help me make an intelligent decision. the screen will be in a living room with a wall of 10ft high and 115 inch wide. The sony vpl-vw100 will be ceiling mount(with extension columns) back at 17ft to 18ft. I don't want to go anymore back b/c the pj will need 4 ft to 5ft to vent...

I'm thinking of going with Hp, SS or BW screen with the masquerade masking system. If i was going with the hp screen...then should i buy the Cinema Contour, Da-Snap, Perm-Wall. But I like the ideal of buying all the product from 1 company b/c it will fix together perfectly. that why i was considering the BW but the gain is too low for that throw distance. I was thing that the screen size might be 60"X107" (2.35:1) Thanks in advance. sorry for your trouble.



keith

I would not recommend SS. HP works best with lower (near eye level) mounts. BW is a low gain (relatively). It all depends on your goals.


The frames from Dalite all vary...the CC is 3" wide, with a beveled edge and velvet coating. the DaSnap is 1.5" squre tube frame (shadowbox) w/optional velvet. The Permwall is the entry model, snaps visible, no velvet. Most opt for the CC.
 
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