AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 92 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Bi-Wiring (I want to do this for the sound quality for my B&W 705 speakers connected to my Denon 2807):

When using speakers set up & created for bi-wiring [the separate drivers], please advise me for what truly will give the best sound possible. Should I take my two sets of pureav Belkin cables, plug them into the same receiver outputs, then put them separately into the two sets of speaker terminals, or is it actually impotant to purchase biwire speaker wire (one set of + & - on one end, and two sets on other end)? Also, since my receiver (like most) has a speaker A and speaker B output, if I should use two sets of non-specialized-bi-wires, how would it compare to use the above described method vs. putting each separate cable from the receiver into the A and B slots? (Note: Denon AVR-2807 has Audyssey setup, which I hope will not get confused if I were to use the A and B slots to actually do biwiring into a total of 2 speakers.)


Banana plugs/clips/etc.: What is the advantage & disadvantage of using these?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,832 Posts
_IF_ you feel that bi-wiring will actually improve something, here's how you'll want to do it:


1) Hook up both cables to the same terminals on your receiver. NEVER use the A & B outputs together driving the same speaker!

2) Hook up 1 pair to the upper terminals and 1 pair to the bass terminals. Remove the metal bridges between the 2 sets of binding posts.

3) 'Special' bi wire cables are merely 2 sets of cables in the same jacket (terminated to 1 set of connections at the end).


Banana plugs are nice for quick-changes. Spades give you a strong connection at each end. With fancy terminations make sure that they fit the spacing on your equipment and speakers (i.e. amp terminals are not too close together, etc.). Also note that spades come in 2 different sizes... make sure you get the right size for your binding posts.


Since you already own the cables you should experiment between bi-wire and normal wiring methods (swap, listen, etc.). May I also suggest replacing the metal bridges between the 2 sets of binding posts with actual cable (when using 1 pair of wiring, not bi-wiring). Often a perceived difference when biwiring can be traced back to loose connections on the binding post bridges.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,897 Posts
Use the search engine and do a search on Bi-wiring. There was substantial dialog on this about a month ago. I wouldn't think everyone wants to rehash that discussion. It was pretty painful.


..Doyle
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,988 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg_R /forum/post/0


NEVER use the A & B outputs together driving the same speaker!

Actually, if it's like most receivers, and the "B" outputs are simply extra binding posts from the same amps as the "A" channel, then it's perfectly fine to use the A+B posts to bi-wire.


This particular Denon's A+B outputs, indeed, are like that. The amps will still see an 8 Ohm load (if that's what these speakers are) if they're used to bi-wire in this fashion. It's when the "B" posts are used to drive another pair of speakers that are also 8 Ohm that the amps see a 4 Ohm load.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,988 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targus /forum/post/0


Are they in parallel? Series? Where's the switch in the circuit? Do they use build out resistors?

On this Denon, they're simply an extra set of binding posts (Is that parallel or series, I forget?). I clarified this a bit in my edit of the original post.


(quit stalking me!
)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,988 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targus /forum/post/0


Big difference...but then, you probably don't know.

I know that my explanation of the load that the amps on this Denon see when used to bi-wire in this fashion, or when used to drive another pair of speakers, is correct.


So you figure it out; is it parallel or series?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,988 Posts
If you want to inanely argue (or whatever it is you call it) with me, Targus, do it via PMs. If you have something to add that helps the OP, then, by all means, shoot.


Otherwise, I stand by what I posted in Post #4.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,205 Posts
If the owner's manual is to be believed then this model does not simply have an extra set of B speaker terminals.


Page ten of the manual has instructions for driving the B terminals with the back surround amplifier for use with bi-amplified speakers (presumably with the speaker's on-board passive crossover).


So there is a switch/relay in there somewhere. The manual suggests speakers of 8 to 16 ohms, and cautions against 4 ohm drivers. I'll put my money on A+B as a series hookup. Is it a good bet Targus?
 

·
Registered
Denon AVR-X3500H; Sony UBP-X800M2; EFE speakers; Outlaw Model M amps; SVS sub; Epson 8350 projector.
Joined
·
1,683 Posts
Omray, there is no scientific support for bi-wiring. So, if you already have the extra wires, go ahead and try bi-wiring your speakers. You are unlikely to damage them. But you are even more unlikely to actually get any improvement in your sound. If you don't already have the extra wires, then don't bother. And I hope you are using nothing more expensive than 12-gauge wire that sells for 30 to 40 center per foot. Anything more expensive than that is also a waste of money (scientifically speaking).


Now, bi-amping may improve your sound, depending on your speakers and amps, and that does require bi-wiring. But that is a whole other concept and the benefit comes from the extra amps not the extra wires.


As to your question about banana plugs, etc., they just make it easier to move equipment around, change connections, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,988 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by trekguy /forum/post/0


If the owner's manual is to be believed then this model does not simply have an extra set of B speaker terminals.


Page ten of the manual has instructions for driving the B terminals with the back surround amplifier for use with bi-amplified speakers (presumably with the speaker's on-board passive crossover).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Targus /forum/post/0


Of course you would, you don't understand what's going on.


Read Trekguys post for a clue.

I DO know what's going on. The receiver allows you to assign the extra 2 amps (if you have them, ie. 5 channel setup) to the front "B" terminals for bi-amping, but the receiver also allows you to simply use the front "B" terminals to connect an extra set of front speakers to the front L+R amps that are used to drive the "A" front speakers. There's a reason that the manual cautions against using 4Ohm speakers in this configuration; 2 pairs of speakers driven by the 2 amps (not 4 amps), front L+R.


So, I don't care what it's called, series or parallel; I know how it works.

HERE is the receiver's manual. You can see if you can find within it the answer to whatever it is that's troubling you.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,646 Posts

Quote:
I DO know what's going on. The receiver allows you to assign the extra 2 amps (if you have them, ie. 5 channel setup) to the front "B" terminals for bi-amping,

OK, the thread title is: "Biwire"...whay are you going on about biamping?

Quote:
So, I don't care what it's called, series or parallel; I know how it works.

In this case, it's neither....but you knew that...right?


Quote:
You can see if you can find within it the answer to whatever it is that's troubling you.

Once again, your confusion overcomes you.

I do know what's going on....you're one of those who doesn't.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,897 Posts
I looked at the manual also and it does not allow you to send the surround amp output to the B terminals when biamping. What it does is allow you to send the signal that is present on the A/B terminals to the surround amp. You then have the A/B terminals driving one biamp speaker and the surround terminals driving the other half of the biamp speaker. Two stereo amplifiers one driving the upper and one driving the lower of a biamped speaker. Obviously you lose your ability for 5.1 sound if you use your surround amp to do this. As to what is happening with the A/B or A+B, it really is not clear when you read the manual. The only clue comes on the spec page where it talks about Speaker terminals and says for A or B the spec is 6-16 ohms and for A+B the spec is 8-16 ohms. I would interpret that as implying the connections are in parallel and based on that they do not want individual speaker connected in parallel that are less than 8 ohm as that would put a load of less than 4 ohms on the amp and cause overheating. With A or B they allow 6 ohms as the low impedance. My vote is for a parallel connection but one never knows the way these manuals are often written. All that being said, don't expect to hear a difference from BiWiring. Just more wires to fuss with for no sonic improvement.


..Doyle
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,205 Posts
I did not see the very clear diagram and instructions on pg 54
and will plead that I was mislead by page 10 that said,

Front A, Front B: Assign to use the 'Front A' (or the Front B') speakers with bi-amp connections
.


Without reading pg. 54 and without stopping to consider how rear surround amps are generally used for two zone setups, I assumed that assignment was specifically made to A or B and that internal output switching was the only way to make sense of that.


Series? Well I guess I just assumed that they were looking for a total load of minimum of ~8 ohms, and two eights in parallel won't do it. 16 ohm speakers in home use are rare now I think.


Well Doyle I thank you for the reminder that it pays to read the instructions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,897 Posts
I am having a quiet day at work and dialog is a little slim over at the Winemaking forum so I had a little time to chew through that manual. What ever happened to manuals that had schematics in them? I am sure a lot of people get these units and go through the Quick Start or Quick Setup and never get into all of the built in bells and whistles.


..Doyle
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,988 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoyleS /forum/post/0


As to what is happening with the A/B or A+B, it really is not clear when you read the manual. The only clue comes on the spec page where it talks about Speaker terminals and says for A or B the spec is 6-16 ohms and for A+B the spec is 8-16 ohms. I would interpret that as implying the connections are in parallel and based on that they do not want individual speaker connected in parallel that are less than 8 ohm as that would put a load of less than 4 ohms on the amp and cause overheating. With A or B they allow 6 ohms as the low impedance. My vote is for a parallel connection............

Exactly. Thank you.


This receiver's front channel "B" posts work like every other manufacturer's mainstream, entry to mid-level receiver's front channel "B" posts work. Be that Yamaha, Denon, HK, Pioneer, ..........................you name it.


The receivers aren't that advanced nor complicated; no reason at all to to make this discussion complicated.
 
1 - 20 of 92 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top