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Hello,


I am a long time visitor of AVS and have posted off and on but have never created a new thread. I wanted to start contributing by sharing my experience today with Blockout Cloth. For the last 6 months I have been using a screen that consists of my wall being sanded smooth and painted with BAHR Flat Ultra White with Silverscreen Mixture. This screen has done really well however I've always had a hard time watching really dark scenes in movies and television shows (Stargate SG1). For this reason after reading about different screen types I decided to give Blackout Cloth a try since I already had a frame for my wall screen to work off of. I have not built the screen yet but I did pin-up the Bloackout Cloth over half my existing screen so I could share some of the dramatic differences and hopefully help others make informed decisions.

This image is my BOC push pinned over half my existing wall screen. You can see there are several rinkles because I have not stretched the fabric and it defiantly is not an ideal setup
The left side is the BOC if your wondering.



This image shows you the type of paint I was using


This image shows you just how much ambiant light is in the room while I take these pictures. I could read a book there is so much light. Even in this first picture you can see how dramatic the difference is between the two sides


Closeup


Serenity HD-DVD Scene
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Blue Screen


TV Anime


TV Family Guy


TV Oblongs


XBOX 360



Stargate SG1 TV



Now keep in mind that these pictures were taken against loose hanging BOC up against my current screen. Also the room was filled with ambient light. I'll post some more pictures tomorrow of the room completely dark so we can see how much more dramatic the results are. So far I can't beleive how much viewable darker video content is to watch. Sure I loose a little contrast in the black area but what I gain in the high end more then makes up for it.
 

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Discussion Starter #4

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler /forum/post/0


Welcome to the world of DIY Screen development. You have done a good job of comparing a matte white screen to a gray screen. Using a half screen piece of BOC was a very good way to start. Most people, myself included, start with too small a sample to do reasonable comparisons. Before you jump to any conclusions take some time with this setup and try calibrating for each side. The brighter side always looks better at first but given some time and careful consideration you may find the dazzle wares off.


The tint you are using was not Silverscreen. It is actually very close to an FnEasy-03. The only difference is the very small amount of Raw Umber. I noticed a loss of shaddow detail when I started using my current gray screen. I used the THX Calibration utility on my Terminator II DVD and wow what a difference. Have you calibrated for the gray screen?


Which screen is the projector calibrated for in the screen shots?


Here is the tint for Silverscreen:

Generic Formula of Behr SS:

1 gallon flat white latex base

20/48ths of Lamp Black

20/48ths of Raw Umber (a dark, murky yellow/orange-based pigment)

2/48ths of Red


Quart Behr UPW #1050

0 5 0 Lamp Black

0 5 0 Raw Umber

0 0 1 Red
Your screen shots do a good job of demonstrating the difference between a matte white and matte gray screen. If the gray screen is in good shape I would recommend you consider applying a coat or two of Behr Matte Poly #780 over it to enhance the contrast ratio. The end result is you will keep the better blacks on the right and get back more of the whites you are seeing on the left.

Thanks for the great info, the screen was calibrated using the built in calibration that comes with Vista Media Center. I have the projector pretty much maxed out on brightness and running in dynamic mode (Panasonic AX100U). I might give the Poly a shot since I already have my wall painted for gray screen. But first I want to finish building my BOC screen so I can use it for a few months and see how I like it. I might end up just painting over the BOC if I decide to try something else.
 

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Discussion Starter #5

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler /forum/post/0


Barnecules, what do you observe or conclude from looking at this screen shot?


The left side (BOC) is brighter
What do you conclude?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Adhesive used to cover border wood in solid black cotton (Joann's)


Here is the side by side comparison of black painted vs. black wrapped cotton


Putting the screen togather, my L brackets were too weak so I need to get something else tomorrow
 

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That Pearl looks MUCH better on whites, and I am going to be redoing my Grey/Poly screen soon.........


Is that Pearl topcoat over the same grey color?
 

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Have you tried that pearl/780 combo OVER an already Poly Topped grey screen?


I do see my whites are rather dull, just like the pics,and OBVIOUSLY it would be easier to just do another topcoat or 2 with the revised mixture...


My take is it wouldn't be a good idea(too thick- cloudy), and to start from a fresh Grey.


Thanks t


m
 

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Of course I have bud, it's not the PJ, it's the grey screen(I noticed this with the DT500 as well, but this PJ needs more help IMO).

I see exactly what I see in comparison shots, grey looking whites, UNLESS it's BIG and BRIGHT- then it looks whiter- but I'm sure if it was a white screen, it would look even whiter.


The problem I have NOW, is I am running an LCD (Never again, unless I'm screwed like I am here), so I need a better performing screen.


I can't afford weaker blacks, and I'd like a CLEARER picture ( as I stated, I DO think the 780 softens the pic a bit as well), with better whites....


Top coats make me a bit nervous, due to their nature of being a "TOP" coat.


OP, Sorry for the Ramble....

I didn't mean to derail your thread.
 

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Wow, I think I might have to try the perl and clear coat. I'm going to finish my BOC screen first though. Gotta pick up some stronger L-Brackets so I can finish the screen so it should be done by Wednesday.
 

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Just to be clear... Tiddler, the pearl is applied on top of the polly and not mixed in to the polly? This mix looks great but I wonder... does it produce any hotspotting that you're aware of? Does it perform well in daylight? I am very interested.



I'm thinking of this, the FG laminate or the DW laminate for the Mits HD1000U I plan on buying. My room will probably have some low-watt lamps on during normal viewing. I may use one of the FnEasy paint solutions and then add polly+pearl.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I actually have an HPLV spray gun and air compressor, I could thin out the clear coat and shoot it though that on to the BOC. I would just need to mask the border so I didn't get any reflective material on it. Let me use the BOC for a few weeks without it and then I'll give it a try
 

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Here are some new pics, the screen is done now. I only have pics taken in day light with the windows open but wow is it bright!

The screen is done!


Can watch in day light!


Wow!
 

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Velcro, it holds my screen on the wall! Makes it easy to make adjustments too


XBOX 360 is amazing on a projector, I dont know why people bother with smaller TV's



Another daylight pic from the new screen
 

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In this pic you can see the velcro squares on the wall


Back of the screen, I didn't spend too much time making it pretty


The corners are just held togather with L-Brackets from Home Depot
 

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I borrowed a photo that Barnacules posted above and cropped it and enlarged it twice. In doing so I took away the influences of the rest of the room and image to some extent and hope to show again something that I have posted about a couple times.


It deals with contrast real and perceived and what we see when watching a image under ambient light.


The photo he took did a good job of capturing what he is seeing I think and I didn't alter the pixel colors in any way when cropping them. The largest blowup shows the photos pixels not the SDE of his screen so the image is pixilated but the colors stay true. the photos I'm posting are large size thumbnails and if you want to see them larger click on them and be redirected to my photo site and there is a view full size button there.


I tested the actual color in the photos with a free download tool called (Visual Color Picker 2.6) and I would recommend anyone serious in this hobby give what I have been doing with this tool a try when looking at their screen shots.


Barnacules wanted more pop from his screen and his gray was defeating this on the white end. Actually diminishing everything across the board. (Lack of pop) in doing so it lowered his ability to perceive contrast even though in all likelihood his new screen has the same actual CR spread it's shifted into a range he can now perceive black where there is none. The real trick and the focus of what we are working on is stretching it in both directions at the same time and also centering it around this new point that allows for things to be perceived. IMO there are only two simple ways to do this stretching of the CR, thru gain or thru more lumens. We all approach this with different projectors but in our own experimenting we lock lumens as a fixed variable so that leaves gain and position on the sliding gray scale to work with.


There is one important other factor and that is our degree of obsession with black levels. it's a personal preference thing and in this case him coming from months of dark whites and colors the eye candy of brightness far outweighs the loss of black. And there is nothing wrong with liking bright better because in loosing some black the vividness of colors is a good trade. But what we really want is both.


Ok the photos


This is the OP photo of the screen and the whole room. I found the darkest black in the image to be in the woman's hair. It measured RGB 92 105 113. The black screen frame on the top of the screen measured RGB 3 5 4 (pure black is 0 0 0) so it shows a nice dark black. The unmasked black bar at the top measured RGB 72 77 80 (That's the max black that is possible under this ambient light level with this screen.)


So what this shows is masked area is 20 to 30 RGB points darker than the woman's black hair. And that's 20 to 30 out of a possible 255 points or about 10%. The amazing part to me is when viewing the full image her hair looks to the eye black while the unmasked area looks a med gray. But in the blow up our eyes like the color tool sees the true color.








 

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Discussion Starter #20
Awesome post bud. You are absolutly right, the pop of better color and brighter whites has far outweighed the loss of black. And also when I watch in a completely dark room I still get very desireable black levels. I'm very happy with my decision to ditch the grey screen however I could see how some people really like the darker black levels you get with one. After I use the screen for a few weeks I'll revisit the thread and state my likes and dislikes. Especially after I get a few more HD-DVD's under my belt
 
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