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It is not that tape lasts longer. It is that analog recordings can degrade to the point of being on their death-beds and yet you will still be able to see something upon playback which gives the illusion that they last longer. A physical disk may not last forever (although with proper storage and handling even the junk media of 12 yr ago seems to stand up incredibly well), but digital data can and does since it is so easily replicated -- unlike analog data. If family DVD's are so precious and you want to pass them down to relatives, why wait. DVD's are easy to replicate and distribute to the family now which increases the number of copies in the wild. If you can't figure out how to run a PC-based duplication program, buy an inexpensive DVD duplicator which operates with the push of a button. Backup HDD's with large storage have gotten incredibly cheap -- I was in Costco last week and they had a 2-pack of 2TB backup HDD's for $90. That's enough to store over 400 DVD-R's on each drive. DVD's are encoded in a very inefficient codec (MPEG-2). If you have a limited number of super-precious DVD's one could use a modern codec (H.264 or H.265) to re-code them and shrink the physical files substantially, then upload them to the cloud where they will live forever.

The move from analog to digital has tremendous significance for long-term survival of the data. One just needs to learn the tools to do so.
Sometimes it's just easier to be grumpy and embrace the past than it is to actually learn new things. Even if the new things are 10-15 years old already

It's like he is saying: "watching black and white TV in the 60's was better than today's HDTV, because there was never any dropouts and the low quality of the picture really hid the snow and ghosting"
 

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50 yrs??...BAH HUMBUG!!...the idea that DVD discs had a huge longevity advantage over tape was the biggest lie ever foisted on the recording public...some discs don't last for 50 weeks.Doesn't matter the brand,be it TY TY/JVC or Verbatim.My oldest discs,Sony -R/W's from 2006,still play well but i don't believe they'll last anywhere near 50 yrs.
If i could i would go back to VCR's and VHS tape...poorer PQ for sure,but tape lasts a lot longer than any DVD disc i ever owned or ever will own.
If D-VHS weren't so expensive i might consider going that route.BD would be cool but requires too much tekkie knowledge for me...seems so damn difficult to do.I don't know how to use those computer BD burning software programs,or how to connect a BD burner to my laptop.It's all Greek to me.
When i transferred my tapes to DVD disc,the tapes were approaching 30 yrs.old and still played well.I don't expect my discs will last anywhere near that long.Sometimes i think i did everything backwards...i should have been transfering the videos on disc to tape because tape lasts longer and a few of the discs i used to transfer videos to from tape,have already died,and now i don't have those videos anymore.I shoulda kept all those tapes.
I've done everything i know to do to preserve my discs,but they just don't have the staying power of tape.:(
Maybe we can all rent space in the deep salt mines........ where all the Johnny Carson tapes are stored.
 

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As I noted above, my DVD-R disks I burned in 2004 are still good and can be ripped to my server without issue. What I forgot to add was that, after 12yr I have essentially no interest in watching any of it. We're being bombarded daily with an unprecedented amount of new content -- in HD. What I can't get OTA, I get either streaming or on disk.
Who has time to watch the old stuff. :eek:

I just keep the old DVD-R disks around to I can test them every so often and make posts like this. :D
 

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As I noted above, my DVD-R disks I burned in 2004 are still good and can be ripped to my server without issue. What I forgot to add was that, after 12yr I have essentially no interest in watching any of it. We're being bombarded daily with an unprecedented amount of new content -- in HD. What I can't get OTA, I get either streaming or on disk.
Who has time to watch the old stuff. :eek:

I just keep the old DVD-R disks around to I can test them every so often and make posts like this. :D
The point of my post is to say that DVD discs don't have the longevity of VHS tape according to my own experience and eyes,not whether sliding back to VCR's is a desirable way to go,which is what some *deep thinkers*:rolleyes: 'round here seem to think it is,which it is not.
I'm just airing my frustration with the relatively short life span of many discs compared to tape that i have been experiencing.
As i said earlier,my oldest Sony DVD-R/W discs are ~10 yrs.old and still play well.

I've had a long time suspicion that the rotten climate i live in may have a lot to do with the short lifespan of my discs,but i can't prove it.
I live in SW.Florida which is hot most of the year,very humid and oppressive,and has more fungus,mildew and molds of all sorts than you would care to know about.Molds mildew and fungus's grow happily 'round here...all over everything.No place and nothing is immune from the mold.
Most of the discs that go bad develop white spots and blotches all over the up-side of the disc which eventually seem to bleed over to the recorded side,but most discs go bad before the bleeding over has occurred.

The VHS tapes i brought from Pa.,which were in near pristine condition when i brought them here,showed the damage this POS climate does to everything it touches after probably 2-3 yrs.Mold and teensy-weensy little mushrooms began to grow on the sides of the tapes.
I used to periodically run them through a winder/rewinder to get rid of the excess mold/mushrooms,which helped keep the tapes playing for about another 10 yrs or so.This type of damage would probably never have occurred in a colder climate like they have in Pa.
Before i moved to FL. i lived near Philly Pa...for ~15 yrs.my tapes were,and stayed in,near perfect condition,but after moving to this crappy climate the tapes began to show problems.But they still played on...and on...and on...and...till i transferred the videos to disc and threw the tapes away.
 

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I live in SW.Florida which is hot most of the year,very humid and oppressive,and has more fungus,mildew and molds of all sorts than you would care to know about.Molds mildew and fungus's grow happily 'round here...all over everything.No place and nothing is immune from the mold.
Most of the discs that go bad develop white spots and blotches all over the up-side of the disc which eventually seem to bleed over to the recorded side,but most discs go bad before the bleeding over has occurred.

The VHS tapes i brought from Pa.,which were in near pristine condition when i brought them here,showed the damage this POS climate does to everything it touches after probably 2-3 yrs.Mold and teensy-weensy little mushrooms began to grow on the sides of the tapes.
LOL, that's just gross, on so many levels. :eek: I've been in The Keys in the summer time so I appreciate the humidity.

I've never seen spots and blotches develop on any of my disks.
 

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OT poke for CitiBear

@CitiBear: seriously OT, I tagged a question for you onto an old thread (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/106-dvd-recorders-standard-def/1206273-question-panasonic-ag-1980-a-2.html) that you may not be monitoring, and since my post count doesn't allow me to send PMs I don't know how else to tug at your shirt-sleeve.

I'd sure appreciate a bit of your wisdom in that arena. (I'm allowed to send messages to 'staff' but haven't identified any of those; probably I'll meet one in the course of having this post moderated, and would appreciate it if in that process my request gets passed along to you.)

John (JohnAx)
 

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I did a quick search here, so I could have missed it, but have others had issues with Verbatim DVD-R's of late? Say, the past 2-3 months? I go through a fair number of discs a month (Not too many during TCM's Oscar month, same movies every single year :/ ) and I am noticing the AZO discs in either 50 or 100 packs , that I have to throw away the first 4-5 discs as they look like...well, like someone sneezed on them. Little specks of defects, usually in one area. Sometimes they also have regular scratches the first few as well.
I recently put a disc from a 50 pack that I just opened ,(and threw away the first few) that I bought last year into my computers burner. It kept making very odd noises, would not spool up correctly, speed up, then slow down....couldn't eject it either! Had to shut the computer down to get it to come out. So, thinking my burner went bad, grabbed a disc from another spindle (this time of 100, purchased more recently) and, no the burner was fine, and copied as normal. Needless to say, I didn't attempt any more recordings from that 50 stack. But, the newer 100 stack....well, in my Panasonic, it rejected, 3 of 4 discs! My JVC 2 of 3(more in the garbage) I have also sent some discs to friends, and they have frozen on them, not many, say 1 in 5...over the last few months.
I switched to Verbatim a year or so ago since I couldn't seem to get good TY via amazon..., 1 disc in 10 would fail on the Panasonic, usually after I had already recorded 1 or 2 films on a disc, using the 4 hour mode(and deleted them off the DVR, don't do that anymore)
Never really had that issue again with the Verbatim discs. Really don't know where to turn at this point.
I know not to use Memorex (found that out more than 10 years ago) Sony quality went downhill (used their DVD + RW without problems, but expensive , and some folks couldn't play them) had issues with Philips...had a batch of TDK that recorded fine, but when I went to play them back, they would not play til 5 minutes into the film,(Found this out after recording dozens of movies) and never bought them again. So... my choices are...HP, Maxell, or Amazon basics (anyone know who makes their discs?

Oh, saw this on a thread dvdtalk.com.... And it LOOKS LIKE with the CMC purchase of TY, & Verbatim no longer using Japan or UAE for manufacturing there soon may very well be no quality blanks left other then NOS legacy.
 

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...and I am noticing the AZO discs in either 50 or 100 packs , that I have to throw away the first 4-5 discs as they look like...well, like someone sneezed on them. Little specks of defects, usually in one area. Sometimes they also have regular scratches the first few as well.
Hopefully that was just a bad lot.

I recently put a disc from a 50 pack that I just opened ,(and threw away the first few) that I bought last year into my computers burner. It kept making very odd noises, would not spool up correctly, speed up, then slow down....couldn't eject it either! Had to shut the computer down to get it to come out. So, thinking my burner went bad, grabbed a disc from another spindle (this time of 100, purchased more recently) and, no the burner was fine, and copied as normal.
I had a similar experience once. I wasn't paying attention when I grabbed a disc off the top of the stack and stuck it in the PC drive. It made horrible noises, speeding up and slowing down, and I couldn't eject it. The disc I grabbed turned out to be two discs that were stuck together. :eek:
 

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Visually defective disks notwithstanding, old DVD recorders that have old burners -- that weren't very good to begin with -- will eventually start to have erratic problems with just about any media. The burners wear out and failure can be gradual. The same goes for PC burners -- although PC burners are higher quality and more robust, they too have a limited use time. Fortunately for PC burners, they are relatively cheap and easily replaced -- not the case for DVDR burners. I use my PC burners a lot and make it a habit of replacing them on a ~3yr cycle -- nothing like a fresh laser diode. I've never had any major issues with media and have 12yr old Memorex DVD-R that can still be ripped without issue.
 

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I did a quick search here, so I could have missed it, but have others had issues with Verbatim DVD-R's of late? Say, the past 2-3 months? I go through a fair number of discs a month (Not too many during TCM's Oscar month, same movies every single year :/ ) and I am noticing the AZO discs in either 50 or 100 packs , that I have to throw away the first 4-5 discs as they look like...well, like someone sneezed on them. Little specks of defects, usually in one area. Sometimes they also have regular scratches the first few as well.
I recently put a disc from a 50 pack that I just opened ,(and threw away the first few) that I bought last year into my computers burner. It kept making very odd noises, would not spool up correctly, speed up, then slow down....couldn't eject it either! Had to shut the computer down to get it to come out. So, thinking my burner went bad, grabbed a disc from another spindle (this time of 100, purchased more recently) and, no the burner was fine, and copied as normal. Needless to say, I didn't attempt any more recordings from that 50 stack. But, the newer 100 stack....well, in my Panasonic, it rejected, 3 of 4 discs! My JVC 2 of 3(more in the garbage) I have also sent some discs to friends, and they have frozen on them, not many, say 1 in 5...over the last few months.
I switched to Verbatim a year or so ago since I couldn't seem to get good TY via amazon..., 1 disc in 10 would fail on the Panasonic, usually after I had already recorded 1 or 2 films on a disc, using the 4 hour mode(and deleted them off the DVR, don't do that anymore)
Never really had that issue again with the Verbatim discs. Really don't know where to turn at this point.
I know not to use Memorex (found that out more than 10 years ago) Sony quality went downhill (used their DVD + RW without problems, but expensive , and some folks couldn't play them) had issues with Philips...had a batch of TDK that recorded fine, but when I went to play them back, they would not play til 5 minutes into the film,(Found this out after recording dozens of movies) and never bought them again. So... my choices are...HP, Maxell, or Amazon basics (anyone know who makes their discs?

Oh, saw this on a thread dvdtalk.com.... And it LOOKS LIKE with the CMC purchase of TY, & Verbatim no longer using Japan or UAE for manufacturing there soon may very well be no quality blanks left other then NOS legacy.
If you haven't cleaned the spindle on your Panasonic lately, I'd strongly suggest it. Whenever I start having chronic issues using my Panasonics and Verbatim AZO discs I clean the spindle and 99% of the time that fixes it. Even with a slightly dirty spindle Ty/JVC discs seem to work, I think it's because of their slightly tactile bottom that helps the drive hold the disc. At least in my case, spindle slippage(which you can generally hear in a quiet room as grinding) is the only real cause of disc failure, I'd guess it's the same in your case, at least with the Panasonic.
Other than Verbatim AZO and Ty(not value line) I don't burn any other brands in my Panasonics. In my PC I use all kind of discs, Verbatim Life, Maxell, etc(mostly CMC made) and they burn fine.
 

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I've noticed a gradual decline in both TY and Verbatim AZO over the past couple years. Where previously both averaged 1 out of 100 "bad" blanks in a spindle, they're now an unpredictable rollercoaster: some new spindles have zero bad discs, others have 15% reject rate in my PCs and dvd recorders. I find the TYs fail more often in my PC burners, while the Verbs fail more often in my recorders. I've also seen those splotches and spots on some Verbs: that's something new, and they usually fail. Disc separation in the hub area (allowing oxidation) is a LOT more common nowadays with new batches.

Even making allowances for aging burners, this isn't a good trend. I replace my PC burners frequently (Pioneer, Samsung, LG) and only burn these two brands of media (TY 8x premium, Verbatim 8x DataLifePlus AZO and 16x retail AZO). My stash gets replenished every couple months: I don't stockpile, I buy fresh. The grinding noise when my burners fail with these discs is awful, esp the PCs because ImgBurn takes forever to abort a bad burn.

Seems TY is down to the dregs of its inventory and Verbatim just stopped caring about strict QC (they've also begun phasing out AZO as a "thing").

It may be time to follow Kelson into BluRay land...
 

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It may be time to follow Kelson into BluRay land...
BD-R is fundamentally different in that it is a solid-state recording layer -- no dyes. That layer seems to be more stable across vendors. The less expensive disk brands have a lot of users that give the disks 4+ stars.

Best of all there is only BD-R and no BD+R.

Unfortunately, there are no recorders that burn to BD-R which is probably the primary roadblock for people who don't want to involve a PC and just want to keep doing what they've been doing for years.
 
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... I couldn't seem to get good TY via amazon...
I'm pretty much addicted to buying stuff from amazon.com, but my unscientific observation is that they don't put much effort into making sure the stuff they sell is genuine and as described. Of course they take care of buyers by quickly refunding their money if they complain soon enough, but that does little good when a counterfeit memory card loses all your photos, etc.

And their customer reviews are a hodge-podge that take a lot of effort to sort out timely, intelligent ones.

I haven't bought DVD blanks for a long time, but used to be happy with supervideostore.com. IIRC fewer reviews but on-topic. That's not a recommendation, just a suggestion that there's probably a good place to buy TY media and receive what you're wishing for.
 

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…I am noticing the AZO discs in either 50 or 100 packs , that I have to throw away the first 4-5 discs as they look like...well, like someone sneezed on them. Little specks of defects, usually in one area. Sometimes they also have regular scratches the first few as well...
This could be a shipping and handling issue. More likely handling in the warehouse. I said this before. A few years ago I personally witnessed a warehouse stacking piles and piles and piles of 50 pack DVD spindles on top of each other. The weight must of been enormous on those piles at the bottom.
 

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well, a year or so later...things sure don't seem to be better quality-wise do they? In fact, I am having more issues than ever. I throw away anywhere from 10 to 20 discs from a 100 pack of Verbatim (interesting what Super eye said about weight placed on spindles, hadn't thought of that) 5-10 at the top, 5-10 at the bottom. Last 2 spindles via amazon only had to throw away like 3-4 on top, which made me happy, sadly enough...but, both times now, in the middle of the stack I am getting disc errors on standalone recorders(3 different ones) and am now seeing like 1 small "dimple" on the recording side....next disc doesn't have it, then 2-3 down, it happens again. So now looking at the surface of every single disc I put in a recorder....and when I once again needed to order blank discs , since....you know....I have to throw away 20-25% of them, I see they are now $29 + on amazon...I figure I can throw away 1/4 of some other brand at this point...and yes, AZO Verbatims....
so, is there a list out there (All I see are old website postings) of who makes who's blank discs now?
Phillips, vs, Sony, Maxell, all the same manufacturer , just find the cheapest? sigh....some smart company would make some money if word got out that they made real quality discs, even if it was $50-$60 for a spindle, I think there are enough nuts out there still buying blank media that would gladly buy/spread the news....
 

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The problem is probably not the quality of the Verbatim disks but rather the age of the burners you are trying to use them with.
 

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well, a year or so later...things sure don't seem to be better quality-wise do they? In fact, I am having more issues than ever. I throw away anywhere from 10 to 20 discs from a 100 pack of Verbatim [...] both times now, in the middle of the stack I am getting disc errors on standalone recorders(3 different ones) and am now seeing like 1 small "dimple" on the recording side....next disc doesn't have it, then 2-3 down, it happens again. So now looking at the surface of every single disc I put in a recorder... yes, AZO Verbatims....
As Kelson noted, to a certain extent, this may be due to your aging standalone burners. We're at the point now where the last of the "classic" DVD/HDD units are well past retirement age (the Panasonics and Toshibas are closing in on 11-12 years old, the Pioneers and Sonys are 9-12 years old). Burning failures will get more and more common, and there's no solution in terms of burner updates or replacements.

There is barely any "biodiversity" left in blank media. The last bastion of aging standalone burner compatibility was TY 8x DVD-R, but their quality assurance took a significant dive when JVC bought them out some years back, and today they're just another branch on the gnarly poisonous tree that is the CMC Magnetics conglomerate. The vast majority of brands are now sourced from CMC or Ritek, neither of which can say the two words "quality control" without erupting in peals of sarcastic laughter.

so, is there a list out there (All I see are old website postings) of who makes who's blank discs now?
There aren't any new lists or discussions because discs are done, dead and over. With the demise of premium standalone dvd recorders, the need for premium blank discs has largely evaporated. PC users don't want to pay for the utterly perfect discs required by aging standalone recorders: it isn't necessary. PC burners are cheap to replace and programmed to tackle the ever-declining quality of the latest commodity blank media. PC data archiving isn't all or nothing: you use one or two different blank optical disc types (maybe including BD), a couple of hard drives, cloud storage, and you're all set. The market just isn't there anymore for anything but dirt-cheap disposable media.

some smart company would make some money if word got out that they made real quality discs, even if it was $50-$60 for a spindle, I think there are enough nuts out there still buying blank media that would gladly buy/spread the news....
Unfortunately no, the remaining demand is not nearly enough to support that niche premium market anymore. If it was, CMC would not have disgracefully thrown away the TY franchise as soon as they got their indifferent hands on it. It would have taken very little effort for them to retain or surpass the quality TY had under JVC: having acquired the factories and staff, all CMC had to do was keep status quo. But no, they couldn't be bothered: instead, they decided to simply collect the extra few cents they could make selling crappy TY knockoffs until all the remaining desperate fools caught wise to their scam. We've just about reached that tipping point: word is out that "CMC Professional 8x Media Using TY Technology" is just an anagram for "pallets we acquired of defective discs that didn't pass JVC inspection and hadn't been destroyed yet".

That's also the reason supplies of Verbatim AZO have dried up in retail stores and are sometimes hard to get even on Amazon: CMC is in bed with Verbatim (lately it seems like CMC roofied Verbatim). Quality control on the commodity 16x AZO has been steadily eroding: I too have been discarding many more Verb AZOs with separation, dimples, and dye clouds.

The only remaining alternative for balky standalone burners are the various flavors of Verbatim AZO DataLifePlus 8x -R and +R (shiny top, matte top, white top, water shield). Verbatim retained tighter control over production of these niche blanks: CMC QC on these is also declining, but at a slower pace (perhaps also because the turnover isn't as frequent). Prices shot up dramatically the last couple years, to an average $35 for a 50-ct spindle ($70 per 100). But if you have an old recorder, or have concerns about archival durability, buy DataLifePlus while you still can.

An emergency workaround that succeeds with most aging Pioneer/Sony recorders is to use DVD-RW: this will often burn OK even if the recorder fails with every brand of -R/+R. You can copy the finalized RW disc to a standard -R or +R disc in your PC, then re-use the RW in the recorder several more times. A clunky workflow, but it can keep a cranky recorder useful that much longer.
 

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The problem is probably not the quality of the Verbatim disks but rather the age of the burners you are trying to use them with.
The age of my 5 recorders is one of the reasons why i started saving as many videos as possible to an external drive.
I save other types of content like audio books and old time radio programs to flash drive.
A few years ago all my recorded content would have bin saved to disc.
Am Hoping that saving to flashdrives and ext.hdd's whenever possible will stave off burner death for a few more years.:rolleyes:
 

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The age of my 5 recorders is one of the reasons why i started saving as many videos as possible to an external drive.
With my TiVo's I can easily transfer any network recordings to a PC for editing and then storage on either my server or burn off to BD-R. And yet, I find little to no reason to save any recorded shows of a TV series to any personal media these days. 85% of everything on network TV or cable is available for streaming from Netflix/Prime in HD/5.1. For the rest I can always get the disks at the library.

The exceptions nowadays are specials and sporting events. If one wants to preserve those, you will have to resort to personal media.
 
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