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Discussion Starter · #162 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by suffolk112000 /forum/post/0


Spring!! Will your theater be done before then?


Craig

Probably by the end of the year for the HT room, spring for the rest of the basement. My son starts up baseball in about two weeks and that'll chew up some spare time. Still have the bathroom drywall and fixtures, tile work, cabinets, flooring, trim, doors, Linacoustic and GOM, paint, equipment. I expect to have the HT room done before year end (except for maybe seats, who knows). Cash flow is king!


Bud
 

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Discussion Starter · #164 ·
I thought I'd move this here instead of Jerrod's thread, particularly about the Ascend speakers I'll be going with. What I posted orginally over there:


I'm going with the Ascend 340s in the front. I haven't bought them yet. Because my side surrounds are in a weird location (above the door) and the fact that I didn't want columns, I'm putting in in-ceilings for the side surrounds. I just decided to match the rear surrounds as well, instead of going with in-walls or on-walls. I did a little investigation (including talking to Ascend) and Ascend recommends the S622TRs to match the Ascends. I ordered two pair last week from two different companies and one arrived today. They'll fit perfectly where I need them in the side soffit. Also, the in-ceilings that I put in the bar/gameroom are Hometech, which apparently are also made by Sonance. Anyway, they're pretty reasonable for surrounds. I plan on getting the Ascends in the not so distant future, when I have the cash. In the meantime I'll start building my proscenium and stage using the Ascend dimensions published in mind and adding some for flexibility or change of mind later.


Here's the Sonance site


Bud
 

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Discussion Starter · #165 ·
I had posted in the Audio Theory, Speaker Setup forum recently about placement of my surrounds given my room layout and got some good info regarding my situation. I had also contacted Ascend (as mentioned) and they recommended going with two pairs of the S622TRs instead of in-ceilings for the sides and in-walls for the rears. Sanjay in the other forum suggested the same. It makes sense to me, keeping them at the same height. That's one less thing I need to worry about. Sanjay referenced the 7.1 Dolby setup and placement of the rears based on the sweet spot. Apparently a 60 degree angle to the rear speakers is optimal according to the Dolby ProLogic IIx diagram. Based on the distance from the sweet spot to the back wall (8 feet from center seat, front row in my case), you can calculate the distance between the rear speakers by taking that distance and multiplying it by 1.2 for a distance or 9.6 feet. Here is reference to the Dolby diagram:

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_e...omlayout2.html


Now, from the instructions from Sonance for a 7.1 setup, they recommend about the same distance between rears (6-10 feet) for a 5.1 setup. The the 7.1 setup they recommend no farther than 6 feet between rears. Check out the Sonance Symphony S622TRs manual here (link no longer working) .


Here's my current layout with the six foot spacing:



So I'm not sure what to do here.
I would assume I'd want to go with the Dolby recommendation. Maybe split the difference and make them like 7.5 or 8 feet? Any recommendations? The S622TRs have both pivoting tweeters and woofers, so that'll help.


Bud
 

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I'd keep them at 6' apart -- they'd already each be 3' from either side wall, and I wouldn't want to go closer than that. Seems like a good balance on the back wall (essentially centered on either half of the back wall).
 

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Bud,
Quote:
the 7.1 setup they recommend no farther than 6 feet between rears

At what distance from the back wall? Or is it a fixed separation no matter how far you're away from the speakers?


Sanjay
 

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Bud,


For what it's worth, my rear surrounds will be around 5.5 feet apart. The angle (I think) is around 162 degrees from the front (72 degrees from the side like you measured). I know it's a bit narrow, but I wanted to keep my back columns as "similarly spaced" apart as my side columns. Plus, I'm going to have 3 sconces on the rear wall.


I'm probably going to sacrifice a bit of something in the surround sound experience, but in my mind if I build it this way, it will sound better than anything else I've heard, so that will do. I guess there has to be a compromise between looks and placement in some cases....
 

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Discussion Starter · #170 ·
Tim and Jerrod,


Six feet or eight or nine is doable with my setup, since they're in-ceilings. Since I'm now a drywall expert
, could always move them if I had to. We're talking about a one foot shift for each speaker. I guess it'll come down to personal preference, but not sure I want to move them if I can avoid it and rather get it right the first time. I'm curious why the discrepancy between Sonance and Dolby. As far as looks go, I plan on using linacoustic/GOM to cover the underneath of the soffits, so no need to be concerned there.


Bud
 

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Ahh... FYI, that's a pretty big compromise to put any surround speakers in the ceiling (especially when you're going through the work of making it dedicated). They'll end up being too high, and need to be angled down... Any reason you're not putting them on the wall (or in the wall)?
 

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Discussion Starter · #172 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by miltimj /forum/post/0


Ahh... FYI, that's a pretty big compromise to put any surround speakers in the ceiling (especially when you're going through the work of making it dedicated). They'll end up being too high, and need to be angled down... Any reason you're not putting them on the wall (or in the wall)?

The issue that put me in the is position is the side surrounds really. I was going to do inwalls in the rear, but am concerned about the effect of the sides being higher than the rears. I asked Ascend if there was an any recommended inwalls, but they suggested using a second pair of the S622TRs for the rear. I don't have a lot of options (any really, except on walls above the door and its a tight fit). Then I have the issue of matching the surrounds with the fronts. This seems to be the best compromise as far as matching the Ascends as well as not having speakers mounted on the walls. The good news is that both the woofer assembly and the tweeter pivot. The rear surrounds will be at about 7.5 feet from the riser, a listener seated, maybe 4 feet. Farther obviously from the front row.


Agreed, not an ideal situation. I've been chewing on this for some time. Is it a compromise? Sure. How much of a difference will it make? I'm not sure yet. I've also come to the conclusion that my video tastes are much more particular than my audio tastes. Maybe since I'm getting older and finally got glasses that I can see again!


Bud
 

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Bud,
Quote:
The show distance behind the seats at 2.5 feet

Look again: the distance is shown as 2' - 6' behind the seats. At first glance it looks like 2' 6" (2.5 feet) but it's not.
Quote:
I'm curious why the discrepancy between Sonance and Dolby.

Because Dolby is giving you angles, which will result in varying spreads depending on how far you are from the speakers. Sonance's recommendation is a distance range, which doesn't make much sense to me.


I mean, what if someone suggested placing your front speakers 8-10 feet apart. Would that give you a wide or narrow front soundstage? I guess it would depend on whether you were 6 feet or 16 feet from the front speakers. I don't see how someone can recommend a spread using numbers instead of angles.


The Dolby recommendation is not something you have to follow strictly. For example: I set my rear speakers up by ear and they ended wider apart than Dolby recommended. If you are more comfortable with Sonance's recommendation, then stick to that. Or split the difference.


Best,

Sanjay
 

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I wonder if you angle them to point at the wall and reflect off of it, if that will help diffuse the sound field so it seems like it's coming more from behind/side and around you, or if it was just make the sound muddy. Something to experiment with. I agree timbre matching is very important.. any reason you don't want them on the walls? Is it a space issue (for walkway)?
 

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Discussion Starter · #175 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani /forum/post/0


Bud, Look again: the distance is shown as 2' - 6' behind the seats. At first glance it looks like 2' 6" (2.5 feet) but it's not.

Good find. I didn't look too close since I'll have two rows and not a lot of room to play with there.

Quote:
I mean, what if someone suggested placing your front speakers 8-10 feet apart. Would that give you a wide or narrow front soundstage? I guess it would depend on whether you were 6 feet or 16 feet from the front speakers. I don't see how someone can recommend a spread using numbers instead of angles.

That's a good point.

Quote:
The Dolby recommendation is not something you have to follow strictly. For example: I set my rear speakers up by ear and they ended wider apart than Dolby recommended. If you are more comfortable with Sonance's recommendation, then stick to that. Or split the difference.

I'm not totally comfortable with Sonance's recommendation, which is why I posted. There's is only a recommendation, as well. I'll have to play around with them I suppose and see what the impact is at say 6 feet and at 8-9 is.


Thanks for the replies. I'll post the result when I get there.


Bud
 

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Discussion Starter · #176 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by miltimj /forum/post/0


I wonder if you angle them to point at the wall and reflect off of it, if that will help diffuse the sound field so it seems like it's coming more from behind/side and around you, or if it was just make the sound muddy. Something to experiment with. I agree timbre matching is very important.. any reason you don't want them on the walls? Is it a space issue (for walkway)?

I'll play with this as well, although not sure how flexible they are to turn 90 degrees, although I can turn them within the hole pretty easily if need be.


If I had the room, I'd do columns and there would be no issue. Trying to maximize the space with seats and because of the position of the front row, the column would be where the door is. I just don't like the look of speakers mounted on the wall, personal preference. I think in-walls and ceilings have come a long way. I know not everyone agrees. I really wanted to go Triads, but just can't justify the cost. I'm trying to get best bang for the buck on my limited budget, hence the Ascends, hence the surround issue.


Bud
 

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Yes Bud,


Your work is really motivating me to work on my HT!!


~Josh
 
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