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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Yesterday my wife can home late from work. Little did she know that I had received delivery of the Sony SXRD 60†display and had just completed optimizing the picture quality by mainly turning off all picture degrading processing (1920*1080 has, by definition very high resolution and requires NO false enhancement). We had been using a 60†Sony GWIII display which was now put out in the garage.


My hope was she would not notice the new but same size display which was turned on when she came home. She showered, came out and into the darkened room and sat on the couch next to me. I was ready and waiting for any comments.


Comments:

1) Jeepers movie: that teenager has rosacea (red face)

Viewing the HD version of Troy on Charter Cable:

2) Wow did you see that (Warner Bros logo rotating) beautiful!

3) Next, it looks so three dimensional

4) looking at the ship out at sea: I’m getting dizzy watching this it so real

5) looking at the opposing soldiers lined up: look at that picture its so realistic


She would have easily watched the whole movie (a rarity). However, I was tired and had gotten the objective results and justification required to keep the display!


SXRD vs HP 1080p

---------------------

Yes, the SXRD has won out over the 1080p display from HP. I'm going to err on the side of superior high signal/noise ratio, contrast, black level and color purity. Also no artifacts, flashing or rainbow. While the HP is no doubt the best DLP rear projection ever, it still has the same basic flaws of the underlying DLP technology. In the end the choice came down to basic picture quality vs true 1080p. In my opinion we must get the basics right first.

I was also able to price match using the wonderful CC advertisement for $1,000 off and other significant incentives.


Calibration Question:

It is quite clear (from the professional reviews) that this SXRD in the "Pro" mode comes quite close to being perfectly calibrated. Can some point me to the best agreed upon setting for the bias and gain located in the advanced menu?


Thanks!
 

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Well what do ya know, the SXRD won out.


**** happens. :D


Shame on you for ignoring all the 1080p input doom sayer’s. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen
Well what do ya know, the SXRD won out.


**** happens. :D


Shame on you for ignoring all the 1080p input doom sayer’s. ;)
No shame in wanting the superior format:)

Finding objective information or critical viewing is very difficult as there is tremendous spin both here at AVS and in the stores.


Here are some findings:

1) HP employees are good, smart, honest and intelligent people. However hardly anyone is going to be critical of products their company produces.

2) HP and the DLP camp are still withholding critical, objective and factual information to assit those making a purchase decision. For example, HP (a gigantic computer company) will not even post their owners manual. But they certainly do advertise the he** out of 1080p input!


3) Methods are employed in stores preventing consumers from making an objective comparison. They may use different rooms. Or if they are in the same room, they feed different signals to each side/technology. Worse yet, even stores that had improved their signal quality are now (purposely?) making them inferior again (to keep sales respectable for along all of their product lines).


4) Of course with HP displays, few retail store carry them, though they do have a 21 day return policy. I was finally able to read objective negative reports from non-HP employees who noticed typical (if reduced DLP) noise, shimmering and even seeing the non-defeatable dynamic iris at work.


5) Another high end store carries both the $13K Qualia SXRD and the $4-5K Wega SXRS. They are isolated in separate rooms with the less expensive ones being feed an inferior signal. So which display is an intelligent (but uninformed) upscale customer going to buy?


The retail stores control environment is beyond the consumer control. There are 1001 ways to skew picture quality to which ever way the retailer desires. In conclusion we are in a very nasty situation, because so much market share (read money) is at stake. It is all too easy to be fooled – and that goes for virtually everyone. This is why I do not gamble either.


The recent professional reviews have been excellent and truthful and are probably your best guide.


It will be interesting reading when the major publications do a head-to-head comparison. That is, if their advertisers will let them.


I will be upgrading to a true 1080p input projector in a couple of years. The benefits of low priced SXRD today, however, make it well worth the price of admission.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate
Yesterday my wife can home late from work. Little did she know that I had received delivery of the Sony SXRD 60†display and had just completed optimizing the picture quality by mainly turning off all picture degrading processing (1920*1080 has, by definition very high resolution and requires NO false enhancement). We had been using a 60†Sony GWIII display which was now put out in the garage.


My hope was she would not notice the new but same size display which was turned on when she came home. She showered, came out and into the darkened room and sat on the couch next to me. I was ready and waiting for any comments.


Comments:

1) Jeepers movie: that teenager has rosacea (red face)

Viewing the HD version of Troy on Charter Cable:

2) Wow did you see that (Warner Bros logo rotating) beautiful!

3) Next, it looks so three dimensional

4) looking at the ship out at sea: I’m getting dizzy watching this it so real

5) looking at the opposing soldiers lined up: look at that picture its so realistic


She would have easily watched the whole movie (a rarity). However, I was tired and had gotten the objective results and justification required to keep the display!


SXRD vs HP 1080p

---------------------

Yes, the SXRD has won out over the 1080p display from HP. I'm going to err on the side of superior high signal/noise ratio, contrast, black level and color purity. Also no artifacts, flashing or rainbow. While the HP is no doubt the best DLP rear projection ever, it still has the same basic flaws of the underlying DLP technology. In the end the choice came down to basic picture quality vs true 1080p. In my opinion we must get the basics right first.

I was also able to price match using the wonderful CC advertisement for $1,000 off and other significant incentives.


Calibration Question:

It is quite clear (from the professional reviews) that this SXRD in the "Pro" mode comes quite close to being perfectly calibrated. Can some point me to the best agreed upon setting for the bias and gain located in the advanced menu?


Thanks!
Enjoy your short valued purchase. The Sony will bring in all the artifacts of interlacing, scaling and noise. You will see these artifacts produced with your great SXRD technology...and you will NEVER be able to add an external video processor to reduce them because of the lack of 1080p HDMI/HDCP. You purchased the finest set in the world for displaying crappy source images.


If you were really serious about SXRD technology- you would have ordered the new Sony front projector (VPW100) which accepts 1080p over HDMI. But a penny wise and dollar foolish certainly rule the day on these forums.


And I certainly think the title you picked for this thread "BLIND TEST" is appropriate. You didn't even take an HQV disk in to evaluate the Sony's internal scaler/deinterlacer/noise reduction. So keep posting your non-technical evaluation of the set. Perhaps your wife can be a spokesperson for Sony.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorelevitt
Enjoy your short valued purchase. The Sony will bring in all the artifacts of interlacing, scaling and noise. You will see these artifacts produced with your great SXRD technology...and you will NEVER be able to add an external video processor to reduce them because of the lack of 1080p HDMI/HDCP. You purchased the finest set in the world for displaying crappy source images.


If you were really serious about SXRD technology- you would have ordered the new Sony front projector (VPW100) which accepts 1080p over HDMI. But a penny wise and dollar foolish certainly rule the day on these forums.


And I certainly think the title you picked for this thread "BLIND TEST" is appropriate. You didn't even take an HQV disk in to evaluate the Sony's internal scaler/deinterlacer/noise reduction. So keep posting your non-technical evaluation of the set. Perhaps your wife can be a spokesperson for Sony.
Dude, I think you missed your monthly dose of Prozac... The guy (like many, many, others) likes his SXRD....get over it...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorelevitt
Enjoy your short valued purchase. The Sony will bring in all the artifacts of interlacing, scaling and noise. You will see these artifacts produced with your great SXRD technology...and you will NEVER be able to add an external video processor to reduce them because of the lack of 1080p HDMI/HDCP. You purchased the finest set in the world for displaying crappy source images.


If you were really serious about SXRD technology- you would have ordered the new Sony front projector (VPW100) which accepts 1080p over HDMI. But a penny wise and dollar foolish certainly rule the day on these forums.


And I certainly think the title you picked for this thread "BLIND TEST" is appropriate. You didn't even take an HQV disk in to evaluate the Sony's internal scaler/deinterlacer/noise reduction. So keep posting your non-technical evaluation of the set. Perhaps your wife can be a spokesperson for Sony.
Why are you hanging around an owner's thread telling them that their purchase sucks? Seems a little mean spirited to me. Might I suggest starting your own thread entitled "Questionable deinterlacing/scaling in SXRDs" and seeing if anyone wants to come to your little party.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorelevitt
Enjoy your short valued purchase. The Sony will bring in all the artifacts of interlacing, scaling and noise. You will see these artifacts produced with your great SXRD technology...and you will NEVER be able to add an external video processor to reduce them because of the lack of 1080p HDMI/HDCP. You purchased the finest set in the world for displaying crappy source images.


If you were really serious about SXRD technology- you would have ordered the new Sony front projector (VPW100) which accepts 1080p over HDMI. But a penny wise and dollar foolish certainly rule the day on these forums.


And I certainly think the title you picked for this thread "BLIND TEST" is appropriate. You didn't even take an HQV disk in to evaluate the Sony's internal scaler/deinterlacer/noise reduction. So keep posting your non-technical evaluation of the set. Perhaps your wife can be a spokesperson for Sony.
OK, you've just convinced us all. The SXRD sucks, let all go buy an HP. C'mon. If you bought the HP and like it, then great. If someone else likes the SXRD better than the HP, then what's it to you. If you think the HP blows away the SXRD then that is your opinion and you've got the right to say so but no need to slam reincarnate for stating his opinion. Can't we all just get along here and enjoy some great technology? We all have different opinions and needs and just because they may not share your opinion doesn't make it wrong. Here is your technical evaluation of the set: (BTW is says the SXRD has CRT-like blacks which is crucial for watching movies in a dark room: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/art...&page_number=2 .


Also, for some of us it's all not about the 1080p input. For some of us, this has become a hobby, an expensive one at that :rolleyes:, and may possibly upgrade in a few years. If you are buying and planning on keeping the set for years and feel the need for a 1080p input, then the SXRD obviously won't work for you. However, since I don't need 1080p for a PC input, and likely there won't be any 1080p content for at least a year and who knows how much there will be. I read an article that said the PS3 is CAPABLE of 1080p but initial games will probably be 720p/1080i. The Xbox is capable of 720p/1080i and most games are 480p :mad: .
 

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It’s already been pointed out to lorelevitt in other threads that the HQV DVD is of no use for evaluating 1080i deinterlacing and 3:2 pull down performance, but he insists on holding it up as proof that Sonys deinterlacer is no good.

Even for 480i, the HQV test disk is not representative of real world performance.

Most if not all well regarded 480i deinterlacers fall over when presented with the HQV DVD.


According to lorelevitt you should spend $3000 to get a deinterlacer for a $3000-$4000 TV.

The problem is that even a $3000 processor is not going to cure the problems that afflict most digital displays.
 

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reincarnate, were you able to do a side by side comparison with the two? I'm just wondering how much better the black levels are on the SXRD. And I share your opinion with manufacturers. Mitsubishi was going to have HH Gregg set their Mits DLP up with a 1080p loop from an external hard drive. Boy that's going to make it fair comparing that TV to other around. I've found it very difficult to give TVs a good instore comparison. So many factors that most people overlook. In one instance I saw a 720p LCD set with no direct lighting on it then a 1080p set right next to it with some direct lighting hitting that making it looked washed out next to the LCD when all other viewing the 1080p sets was significantly more vivid and overall better looking. Personally I wish retailers would set up these TVs in the store with very minimal lighting and the same source signal and seperating TVs by size.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AUPigskin--
Dude, I think you missed your monthly dose of Prozac... The guy (like many, many, others) likes his SXRD....get over it...
I agree...Good God! Does he plan to live forever when none of this matters when we all are DEAD!!! Enjoy it now and for several years to come. If something better comes along, BUY IT THEN!!! :p
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate
I was finally able to read objective negative reports from non-HP employees who noticed typical (if reduced DLP) noise, shimmering and even seeing the non-defeatable dynamic iris at work.
I was the one that first reported seeing the affect of the iris at work, but I do work for HP.


-Dave
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomixer
I agree...Good God! Does he plan to live forever when none of this matters when we all are DEAD!!! Enjoy it now and for several years to come. If something better comes along, BUY IT THEN!!! :p
Right. NHK just demoed a 7680 x 4320 TV. I bet that sucka makes 1080p look pretty weak.


4320p or bust! NO COMPROMISE!! TRUE HDTV
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032
If you are buying and planning on keeping the set for years and feel the need for a 1080p input, then the SXRD obviously won't work for you.
The last thing this forum was set up to do was to be an opportunity for self-serviing posts. The folks coming to this forum want to read REAL information not someone creating a thread to rave how much his wife likes their new purchase. Give us all a break and post something useful.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson
Right. NHK just demoed a 7680 x 4320 TV. I bet that sucka makes 1080p look pretty weak.


4320p or bust! NO COMPROMISE!!
No question that 720x480 DVDs look a lot better when upscaled using something like ffdshow, so I imagine that 1920x1080 will also look better when upscaled to 7680 x 4320. Personally, I think it is silly to ever use the words "future proof".


-Dave
 

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Reincarnate:


I am glad you found a set that fit your needs and budget...that is the holy grail, right? The fact that you were able to scam the extra $$ off via the misprint likely made it a very compelling deal.


However, some of your comments below regarding are a bit over the line, and given you haven't seen any of the HP 1080p sets in person, much less both sets next to or near each other, I don't understand how you can make sweeping comments on which set is best. (I have seen both of them, though not at the same time, and found them entirely comparable as best I could compare them in different viewing sessions, no clear winner on PQ. I purchased the HP for various reasons, but I'm sure would have been happy with either.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate
2) HP and the DLP camp are still withholding critical, objective and factual information to assit those making a purchase decision. For example, HP (a gigantic computer company) will not even post their owners manual. But they certainly do advertise the he** out of 1080p input!
When you were posting in the HP 1080p thread, you congratulated a couple of posts regarding potential issues for their "objectivity." Based on your comment above it sounds like you believe that people posting a positive comments or not posting at all are shills for HP and/or actively withholding the "truth."


So if others on this board applied your own logic to you, they would have to assume that your lack of critical comments regarding your purchase indicates that you are "withholding critical, objective and factual information." Same for anyone posting on the Sony threads who love their sets...a bunch of "withholders" there as well? Doubtful. People tend to end up purchasing what they like, and like what they purchase, for a range of reasons that are obvious. However, in my experience here, most people do try to post frankly about their experiences with their TVs...I think you can relax, Mulder, there is no conspiracy or "DLP camp" withholding information.


The lack of an online manual is regrettable, but clearly not a sales ploy or evil plot of any kind...likely more about bureaucratic inefficiency than anything else, and as was pointed out to you on the thread, 90% of it is already on the HP site under support links.

Quote:
I'm going to err on the side of superior high signal/noise ratio, contrast, black level and color purity. Also no artifacts, flashing or rainbow. While the HP is no doubt the best DLP rear projection ever, it still has the same basic flaws of the underlying DLP technology. In the end the choice came down to basic picture quality vs true 1080p.
Aside from the rainbow comment (which can affect some people) I can't imagine how you can make these comparative comments w/out seeing both sets, much less both sets anywhere near each other...no comparative professional review has done so.


Hope you continue to enjoy your set.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorelevitt
Enjoy your short valued purchase. The Sony will bring in all the artifacts of interlacing, scaling and noise. You will see these artifacts produced with your great SXRD technology...and you will NEVER be able to add an external video processor to reduce them because of the lack of 1080p HDMI/HDCP. You purchased the finest set in the world for displaying crappy source images.


If you were really serious about SXRD technology- you would have ordered the new Sony front projector (VPW100) which accepts 1080p over HDMI. But a penny wise and dollar foolish certainly rule the day on these forums.


And I certainly think the title you picked for this thread "BLIND TEST" is appropriate. You didn't even take an HQV disk in to evaluate the Sony's internal scaler/deinterlacer/noise reduction. So keep posting your non-technical evaluation of the set. Perhaps your wife can be a spokesperson for Sony.
You know what they say, "pride goeth before the fall".
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorelevitt
The last thing this forum was set up to do was to be an opportunity for self-serviing posts. The folks coming to this forum want to read REAL information not someone creating a thread to rave how much his wife likes their new purchase. Give us all a break and post something useful.


His wife, pu-leeze. Why should we care what his wife thinks. She doesn't know anything about AV Science. Much like you I'm tired folks bragging about their TV's, period, nobody really wants to hear that. We don't need another thread of someone worshipping their TV and all the little groupies who wish they had the same TV. :mad:
 

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I personally found this thread starter's remarks regarding his wife's observations very, very useful. I think that he is making an excellent contribution and point, which is that it is a rewarding reality check when someone else who is going to watch your set notices big differences.


My wife noticed unprompted when I calibrated my 70xbr950 and even when I changed my video cables. She watches the thing more than I do so this is important. She is also part of the decision making process.


We spend huge amounts on this stuff and tend to always want the latest, best thing. It is rewarding when there is a genuine, objective advance that makes a difference, validated by a neutral third party.


I don't understand why someone would belittle another's contribution or observations, and suppose that it were of less value than thier own. Contrary to the remark made, these forums were set up for just this kind of feedback and input.


An apology is clearly in order here if one were a big enough man to admit a temporary lapse in judgement.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danabw
Reincarnate:


However, some of your comments below regarding are a bit over the line, and given you haven't seen any of the HP 1080p sets in person, much less both sets next to or near each other, I don't understand how you can make sweeping comments on which set is best.
Ok...when I saw reincarnate's post, it read like he was quite familiar with the HP already, as in having first-hand experience at stores or in someone's home. If what you say is true, then he should add that fact to his post, or edit out his HP vs. SXRD comments entirely.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyL
I personally found this thread starter's remarks regarding his wife's observations very, very useful. I think that he is making an excellent contribution and point, which is that it is a rewarding reality check when someone else who is going to watch your set notices big differences.


My wife noticed unprompted when I calibrated my 70xbr950 and even when I changed my video cables. She watches the thing more than I do so this is important. She is also part of the decision making process.


We spend huge amounts on this stuff and tend to always want the latest, best thing. It is rewarding when there is a genuine, objective advance that makes a difference, validated by a neutral third party.


I don't understand why someone would belittle another's contribution or observations, and suppose that it were of less value than thier own. Contrary to the remark made, these forums were set up for just this kind of feedback and input.


An apology is clearly in order here if one were a big enough man to admit a temporary lapse in judgement.
I think you miss the title of this forum. Its AVS-- and the "S" stands for "SCIENCE" not opinionated drivel that this subthread attempts to purport as science. You want to read about his wife's opinon of their new set-- then perhaps he should post and you should read one of the numerous "alt" forums out on the web. The rest of us would like to keep this forum based on technical information, professional evaluations and advances in AV SCIENCE.
 
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