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I'm cool with this since the main goal of all this protection is my "consumer flexibility" :rolleyes:


Of course, my alternate take, was "IT'S DIVX REBORN!" :eek:


Seriously, though, I don't know how many or what kind of hoops we'll have to jump through to enjoy movies on Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. If it is extensive, then many people will forego the $1000 or so for one of these players and just watch broadcast HD and PPV. I'm sure Blockbuster is very interested in whether or not the technology will even allow for a rental structure.


Had to expect it, IMHO.
 

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If Blu-Ray requires a Divx-style internet connection for its DRM, but HD-DVD doesn't, this format war is over. Sony has just pounded in the first nail in its own coffin.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z
If Blu-Ray requires a Divx-style internet connection for its DRM, but HD-DVD doesn't, this format war is over. Sony has just pounded in the first nail in its own coffin.
Agreed. The article really doesn't go into specifics. For me, it's very simple. If I can't simply put a disk into the player and view it, I'm not interested. I'm not running cables from the living room to the computer room. I'm not even sure I'm willing to connect a phone line to a DVD player. If Blu Ray requires this, then I have no interest in it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlieniceT
I'm sure Blockbuster is very interested in whether or not the technology will even allow for a rental structure.
With all their restrictions, I have no interest in buying these discs. If they don't allow renting, then I have no interest at all.


Netflix has 39,700 DVDs that I still haven't seen. I can do without HD-DVD.
 

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What really irks me is this effin' inflated 3 billion dollar loss figure, due to piracy, that keeps getting thrown around . Total and complete horse s***.
 

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Blu-ray makes unexpected, three-way DRM choice for high-def DVD


Scott M Fulton III


August 10, 2005 - 13:18 EST


Hollywood (CA) - In an announcement last night, the Blu-ray Disc Association, led by Sony, representing one of two competing high-definition DVD formats, stated it will simultaneously embrace digital watermarking, programmable cryptography, and a self-destruct code for Blu-ray disc players.


The BDA statement is unprecedented not only because its solution to the nagging problem of digital rights management is to embrace every option on the table, but also because Blu-ray appears to have developed its own approach--in some cases, proprietary--to each of these three technologies. Knowledge of this impending fact may have been what tipped movie studio 20th Century-Fox last week to throw its support behind Blu-ray, in a move that experts believe balanced the scales in Blu-ray's ongoing battle with competing format HD DVD--backed by a forum led by Toshiba--to become the next high-def industry standard.


The digital watermarking technique, which will be called ROM Mark, is described in the statement as "a unique and undetectable identifier in pre-recorded BD-ROM media such as movies, music and games." "BD-ROM" is the proposed writable version of the Blu-ray format. Little else is known about ROM Mark at this time, except that the statement describes it as being undetectable to consumers. This is noteworthy in itself, since a previously heralded watermark applied to first-generation DVDs was notoriously defeated by someone writing over it with a permanent marker.


One part of the announcement that had been anticipated by experts was Blu-ray's embrace of Advanced Access Content System (AACS), one version of which has also been adopted by the HD DVD Forum. This controversial technology would require that disc players maintain permanent connections to content providers via the Internet, making it possible for discs that fail a security check to trigger a notification process, enabling the provider to send the player a sort of "self-destruct code." This code would come in the form of a flash ROM "update" that would actually render the player useless, perhaps unless and until it is taken to a repair shop for reprogramming. The Blu-ray statement noted that certain elements of AACS have yet to be formally approved by the BDA.


The third part of the announcement that is perhaps most surprising, is Blu-ray's adoption of a third DRM technique that appears to embrace some of the ideals of one of the technologies that had been considered, without actually licensing its methodology or its existing tools. The BDA statement introduces what it calls "BD+," described as "a Blu-ray Disc specific programmable renewability enhancement that gives content providers an additional means to respond to organized attacks on the security system by allowing dynamic updates of compromised code."


BD+ appears to be Blu-ray's version of a concept previously under consideration called SPDC, which enabled the method for encrypting a disc's contents to be included on the disc, rather than on the EPROMs of the disc player. One of the perceived failures of first-generation DVD was that its encryption mechanism of choice, called Content Scramble System (CSS), was spectacularly defeated, with the result being that the industry was forced to permanently and irreversibly support a now-worthless encryption scheme. With SPDC, new encryption algorithms could be adopted as old ones are cracked, enabling successive generations of high-def DVD to be stronger than earlier ones.


Two months ago, the HD DVD Forum considered a coupling of AACS with SPDC. But a scientifically accurate though politically imbalanced white paper released by the creators of SPDC technology, Cryptography Research, Inc. (CRI), soundly rebuked alternative DRM technologies, and thus may have unintentionally played a role in SPDC's falling out of favor with the original supporters of CSS, some of whom were HD DVD Forum members. The Forum rejected "AACS+SPDC" for undisclosed reasons, leading many to speculate that Blu ray would respond by embracing SPDC.


However, as SPDC was originally discussed, there would only have been one encryption standard in use throughout the industry at any one time. According to yesterday evening's BDA statement, BD+ would follow SPDC's core principle, but instead allow each content provider to utilize whatever encryption standard it sees fit at the time. "With these enhancements," the statement reads, "content providers have a number of methods to choose from to combat hacks on Blu-ray players. Moreover, BD+ affects only players that have been attacked, as opposed to those that are vulnerable but haven't been attacked and therefore continue to operate properly."


This last sentence is important, because one key objection that experts raised to the pairing of AACS with SPDC was the possibility that, once the single SPDC encryption scheme was broken, AACS could trigger a signal to all players using that encryption scheme, rendering all discs that use this scheme unplayable, perhaps prior to a system upgrade. The BDA statement appears to distance itself from the CRI approach to SPDC, perhaps to calm consumer fears that entire libraries of perfectly legitimate content could be rendered useless due to someone else's illicit activities.


The CRI white paper, incidentally, distinguished SPDC by contrasting it with other DRM techniques such as watermarking. "Although some progress is being made at improving robustness and efficiency," the white paper states, "we are not optimistic that a practical and secure public watermarking scheme is possible." Such comparisons may have worked against SPDC's eventual adoption by Blu-ray in method as well as in principle.


On behalf of the HD DVD Forum this morning, Toshiba's advisor to the Forum, Mark Knox, released a brief statement: "Today's announcement by the BD Group should not confuse anyone," states Knox. "HD DVD's content protection system provides the highest level of advanced copy protection to meet content owner's needs and the rigors of consumer demand." Knox goes on to say that AACS--which now singularly forms the crux of HD DVD's DRM--is the most advanced such scheme yet devised, and that HD DVD's own membership continues to back that approach.


"We will continue to promote further penetration of the format," Knox added, "while simultaneously seeking ways to eventually realize a single format that delivers optimized benefits to all concerned industries and, most important, to consumers."
 

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kmullen, can you please provide the link where that article comes from?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z
If Blu-Ray requires a Divx-style internet connection for its DRM, but HD-DVD doesn't, this format war is over. Sony has just pounded in the first nail in its own coffin.


as much as I think Blu-ray has the technical advantage, I totally agree.....stupid stupid move by Sony, and the so called war is over before it even began :mad: Can you say Betamax! :p
 

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Why is this thread in the "DVD Players (Standard Def)" forum? There's only 5 HD related forums. :)


larry
 

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That sounds a little over the top. I doubt much will come of it.


Of course, if any system had some sort of enforced region lockout, then I wouldn't buy it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmullen
The BDA statement is unprecedented not only because its solution to the nagging problem of digital rights management is to embrace every option on the table, but also because Blu-ray appears to have developed its own approach--in some cases, proprietary--to each of these three technologies. Knowledge of this impending fact may have been what tipped movie studio 20th Century-Fox last week to throw its support behind Blu-ray, in a move that experts believe balanced the scales in Blu-ray's ongoing battle with competing format HD DVD--backed by a forum led by Toshiba--to become the next high-def industry standard.
Already the conflicting information is pouring in. In today's Wall Street Journal, we have this bit of news:

Quote:
Late last month News Corp.'s Twentieth Century Fox, the last studio that hadn't yet committed to bringing out titles in one of the two formats, said it would release titles in the Blu-ray format, joining Sony Pictures and Walt Disney Co.


Fox's move leaves the studios roughly evenly split when it comes to next-generation DVD, with about half of DVD releases in the Blu-ray camp and half in HD-DVD, according to Tom Adams of Adams Media Research.

To get Fox's support, Blu-ray agreed to add some features, including extra copy protections, according to people familiar with the matter. The extra copy protections had been rejected by some Blu-ray members. A Fox spokesman said it wouldn't be appropriate to discuss the negotiations.
These guys can't even get there stories straight, can they?


History lesson: Back in the good old days of DVD vs. Divx, 20th Century Fox was the big champion of Divx, and were the last major studio to get off that dead horse and release product on what was then referred to as "open DVD". Since it is clear that Fox did not learn a thing the first time around with Divx, it appears that they will need to see the same scenario evolve when Blu-ray hits the streets.


Disney tried for a time to introduce DVD's that would self-destruct, limiting the number of viewings for a given title. Yeah, they're in the Blu-ray camp, too. Surprised?


It seems that all the DRM included on Blu-ray discs may offset the storage advantage the format held over HD-DVD. Now, if the HD-DVD group develop a strong but invisible (non-intrusive) content protection scheme, then it wil basically be "Game Over" IMO.


If Blu-ray dies a deserving DRM death, at least it appears that some Blu-ray members had the sense to see it coming and fought to adopt the DRM overkill.
 

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So if someone (that wasn't me of course) put in a "bad" disc, it would trigger a self imploding command that would render my $800+ player useless. No thank you.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ja Phule
So if someone (that wasn't me of course) put in a "bad" disc, it would trigger a self imploding command that would render my $800+ player useless. No thank you.
I can see the scene repeat itself in living rooms across America - hard working Father turns into monstrous ogre anytime wife or kids approach his Blu-ray player: "GET YOUR FREAKING HANDS OFF MY BLU-RAY PLAYER, DAMN IT!!!" :D
 
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